The "Obvious Mechanics Should Kill You" Thread

[Monran]

need to have more bosses with that Flame Wreath spell from Shade in kara

Oh dear god I miss the Aran Chant XD

[Ringthane]

Many of his vierwers are fucking idiots who think they are Sherlock Holmes or something when they see no buffs at the top of the screen. So he gets the same message the 400th time, "lol u suck u dont buff and lol look you havent even spen taletns", I'd lose my sanity too if I had to deal with idiots like that. People shit-talking about things they don't know about, is annoying, people shit-talking down to you when they are not only mistaken, incoherent, and the 10th person to say it is nothing less than soul-destroying.

So what? That's the choice he made when he decided to do those videos. I worked in retail. I know how stupid people can be. But I sucked it up and did my job. Finally, when I'd had enough, I found a job that didn't have that. Once again I say, if he doesn't want to deal with that, then he should either disable all comments on his videos, or go find something else to do.

And you and I both know that those are not the only questions he gets asked that he responds to in that way. Somebody told him to stop whining about not having tanks coming out of the woodwork to group with him, or else roll one himself, and he replied "Why should I have to go through all that just so I can play?" Because if you want other people to go through all that just for your benefit, then you shouldn't be surprised when other people expect the same of you.

That's what I have the problem with. His raging sense of entitlement. I've played for five years, and let me tell you, I've seen my share of idiots. The level 60 priest who didn't know what shackle was. The druid who wanted to need on the plate boots off one of the Scholo bosses. I've grouped with them, I've dealt with the wipes, I've felt the same frustration we've all felt. But I had enough class not to be an absolute arse about it.

[Deleted]

Green clouds heal me right?

does in the yogg fight.

[RyanEX]

Wrath has made a lot of players lazy with the way Blizz did things. Even worse for those that started playing DURING Wrath.

Now that Blizz seems to be going back to their old formula of "PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION" you'll be seeing alot of crying and qqing on the forums. As far as some players are concerned heroics are there simply to gear up for raids of which they likely have ZERO awareness for. Most of them never experience the smash your keyboard joy that was H Shattered Halls. Or H Shadow Labs. Or H Arcatraz...or even H mechanar.

These are the kind of players you'll spot quickly as long as Blizz doesn't touch the Cata heroics overly much. Those that stick around, grit their teeth and bother to try and learn will becomes better players. Those that couldn't be bothered to even learn how to operate their Occulus dragons will either quit and qq for months on the forums, despite claiming that they don't "have time" for challenging content since they have "Real Lives".

[Deleted]

Like the sindragosa frost bombs on heroic, thats fun. Especially if your an awesome mage like me who likes to tempt fate just to get a bit of mana back.

30% chance to gain 140k mana hells yes <3
Note: 2nd time around didnt go according to plan

busted!

[Deleted]

Fire in general should kill you or at least disfigure your face!

[Borigrad]

simply mechanics shouldn't flat out kill you under a few conditions, what are you doing in the fight, how much are you looking out for, does it happen at the same time as something else.

if your watching out for 6 things, you bound to slip up totalbiscuit suggests ONE HIT from rotface's slime spray should kill you, but if your running out it's hard to avoid that 1 hit.

it all depends on the fight and whats going on, heroic sindragosa simple mechanics do kill you, blood queen mind control. princes-fireball, saurfang-beasts 1 shot anything not in plate, rotface-explosion kills you, the other fights are designed to be races, and long hauls to put strain on your healers and tanks and make you have to keep going after you used your cooldown. fights like: Valithria, proffesor, marrowgar, gunship, lich king.

there are a lot of simple mechanics that get you killed, but it's hard to notice cause they are simple and usually quite easy to work around or avoid.

[Nollie]

The missiles on lootship should be instant kill on heroic.

/signed

[312guiltyspark]

Eh... I was in a 10 uld drake run and our holy paladin died to a rocket on hm mim. His excuse was that he couldn't see the rocket icon through the fire. Since he couldn't see it because the fire was covering it, was it fair to 1 shot him?

yes its fair...those rockets have a very obvious graphic around them even if the room is 90% covered by fire. tell this pala to pull his finger out and learn to play.

[Imoovabull]

fire = buff???

[312guiltyspark]

and by the way just been skimming through this thread and i see a lot of crap about loken's aoe oneshotting people - or being labelled a deadly mechanic.
i would just like to point out that this is one of the laziest concepts for damage control in the game in my opinion. not only is his aoe completely harmless when with a healer who is awake, but it does less damage the closer everyone is to it. so basically - hug = no damage - try escape = ur gna die

[Gilian]

People who likes gaming, challenges and so, want mechanics that one shot you. That's what raids are for.
People who likes to relax and have a good time, want to have a time playing their toons and gearing it a bit. That's what heroics are for.

Now the problem:

When those who like gaming and therefore raids must do heroics in order to maximize the badges to gear themselves.
When those who like to relax and have a time want to do the same as those who play more hours, play better, and are actually good.

See how they mixed it up?

What I mean is that if you're not forced to do heroics in cata, you probably won't do them with your raiding char, therefore you probably won't give a shit if the mechanics in a heroic one shot you, also if the raid content is actually hard and not made aiming to monkeys without brain, you will get one-shot, you'll have your challenge and rainbow will shine.

Except when we are at tier 13 or 14 and people do heroics to get tier 12 or 13 with justice points. They overgear it but still need to run heroics to catch up to the raiders (still not my favorite way of doing it but it's what a lot of people and blizzard wants). If you were one of these people and you are catching up to raiders don't you want to have some challenge in heroics, some more fun than overgearing it and just AoE spam?

If you want to relax and you think moving out of fire is not relax maybe you should just do normal dungeons or whatever.

---------- Post added 2010-10-04 at 09:44 AM ----------

You need to be a bit creative here..insta kill is not a good solution for people on stuff like ...slow or laggy connections or the issues that ppl playing from Australia had. there is a million reasons why you can have lag..hell..it can be from Blizzards servers or what.

Sure - add the odd rocket strike and vortex and stuff here and there, but environmental issues insta-killing anyone ANYWHERE is pretty meh and it isn't even clever.

Obvious means they are obvious and easy to get out of. I don't think a 2 seconds lag will kill you when, for example, a rock falls from the sky and and you know 4 seconds in advance where it's going to drop.

Also who wants to play with that much lag anyway? But I guess we should all just make the game less interesting because Australia has a bad internet connection. I also guess that people from Australia never raid because they will wipe from one shot mechanics with their insane lag.

Sorry, but designing a game for people who have that much lag is not the right thing to do. Do you know any game that does that? "We removed headshots from counter-strike because people with lag have a disadvantage."?

---------- Post added 2010-10-04 at 09:51 AM ----------

simply mechanics shouldn't flat out kill you under a few conditions, what are you doing in the fight, how much are you looking out for, does it happen at the same time as something else.

if your watching out for 6 things, you bound to slip up totalbiscuit suggests ONE HIT from rotface's slime spray should kill you, but if your running out it's hard to avoid that 1 hit.

it all depends on the fight and whats going on, heroic sindragosa simple mechanics do kill you, blood queen mind control. princes-fireball, saurfang-beasts 1 shot anything not in plate, rotface-explosion kills you, the other fights are designed to be races, and long hauls to put strain on your healers and tanks and make you have to keep going after you used your cooldown. fights like: Valithria, proffesor, marrowgar, gunship, lich king.

there are a lot of simple mechanics that get you killed, but it's hard to notice cause they are simple and usually quite easy to work around or avoid.

I think it's more about heroic 5 mans and not raids. The reason for one shot mechanics in heroic 5 mans is to keep them somewhat challenging when you overgear them. It's not fun when you can trivialize all the tactics of a boss when you overgear it. I don't think TB suggested that slime spray from rotface should be one shot. As you said there is much more going on in that fight than just slime spray.

But if you look at sindragosa and you get in airphase I think the bombs should one shot you. They are really obvious and you have more than enough time to hide. I think that now (not in hardmode) you would be able to nuke all the iceblocks asap and have healers spam heals and you will still survive 3 bombs without having any cover.

[Squishei]

The one and only example that I can kill you now is H PoS. Krick and Ick. It is by far my favorite 5 man encounter as it I think the only boss with mini-raid mechanics. I enjoy that fight because so many people fail at it... For example, his poison nova; most people are used to eating poison nova on the first boss in gundrak (who even gets a poison nova anymore) so why not eat this one too and end up dying. This relates so closely to sindragosa which is was the ultimate pug killer. And how many countless times I've seen melee not run away during pursuit, and get absolutely roflstomped. WotLK heroics became a state of "this is boring, let's just roflstorm and just heal me through everything so we can get here faster." Krick and Ick by far, the best 5 man heroic boss.

[Deleted]

Agree.

[allrightythen]

Are you talking about other concerns like tanking the head on mimiron type deals? or simply instakill mechanics that should be avoided? Because adding some specialized role in a 5 man drasticaly constricts the viable group comps when all of a sudden the LFG tool has the following flags: Tank, Healer, DPS, Warlock, Mage.

If you were simply talking about instakill mechanics, there are several in heroics. The issue people run into is that nearly everyone outgears them by a wide margin. But there was Astral Plane on Ley Guardian Eregos, the arcane explosion on the mage in oculus, The mushrooms on Amanitar, the lightning nova on Loken, the ghoul explosion on Black Knight, the giant lazer on devourer, and ick's poison nova. All of them were pretty much one shots if not handled correctly in appropriate gear levels.

they were not oneshot mechanics BECAUSE you could outgear them.

if it was a true oneshot mechanic lokens nova would just outright kill you, no qusetions asked.

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 03:14 PM ----------

I would agree with the idea, when it comes to raids, but not 5 man dungeons (be they normal, or heroic).
The reason for that is, with running the 5 man for 5654754th time to get your two EoFrost, or what will be their Cataclysm equivalent (can't remember, which points are which), you'd rather just do the place fast&easy, I think, for the same reasons people now want to skip bosses, and take the shortest possible way to the final one. So, while it maybe should one shot the gearing up characters, that actually need HC dungeon drops etc., it should be possible to outgear them, when you actually start to raid - maybe not with the first raid tier gear (like Naxx/OS/Malygos in WotLK), but with some higher tiers, yes.

And when you'd be gearing up your fresh-85-alt, they obviously still can get one shotted by it, so you'd have to watch out for them.

its people like you that will make this game boring.

"youd rather just do the place fast and easy"

fail quote if i ever heard it.

you have been indoctrinated into the "gimme badges" mindset.

btw...you shouldnt get your frost badges or equivalent without killing all bosses in a heroic.

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 03:20 PM ----------

Does nobody here use the RDF?

Are these mechanics obvious? Of course. Should anyone mess them up? Ideally, no. But realistically, you're playing with people who are playing on American/EU servers from Afghanistan and Japan and all kinds of places with insane latency. You are playing with people with shitty computers. And you are playing with complete idiots.

These people quitting the game would be bad for Blizzard, and honestly, a lot of them shouldn't have to quit. Is it really right to ask someone to entirely give up their hobby because they just got deployed or their better computer is in the shop for a month? As much as it frustrates me when people ignore obvious mechanics or when instances become trivial, it would frustrate me more if the people I was randomly forced to group with wiped for stupid reasons even more frequently or if some of my ingame friends had to quit due to life circumstances now that they could no longer do instances.

why are they playing wow when they are combat deployed is beyond me.

and why would you even try to suffer thru wow with a crappy computer/latency. do something else?

But really, i can understand the "i have high latency and cant help it" crowd, but dont defend the "im a moron" people plz.

simple way, make the obvious oneshot mechanics something that can be worked around with 500 latency (if you have higher then that, dont bother playing, blizz doesnt cater to people without internet, so they shouldnt cater to people with dialup or hughesnet)

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 03:25 PM ----------

Yes, lag happens. I accept this. So does Blizzard, which is why there are virtually no insta-death mechanics.

To some people the point of a video game is escapism and relaxation, which is why raids are there to provide a greater challenge to those who desire one. As you've said, heroics already are a challenge when undergeared. People have just had to farm them forever to get their frost badges. (Yes, there are still people who need frost badges...I've cleared ICC at least once a week from the start and my druid hasn't quite finished her last set of gear.) I saw a blue post indicating this was probably a mistake, so ideally, people won't HAVE to run heroics on a regular basis anymore after they're raid geared, making the "what happens when we're overgeared?" argument moot.

And to your second point, not everyone is in a combat MOS. I do, in fact, know a couple people who are deployed but continue to play (not raid, obviously, but play.) My husband played both times he was in Iraq. If nothing else, it's a great way to keep in touch with friends/family/significant others back home. A phone call just isn't the same as an activity you can participate in together.

farmville

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 03:26 PM ----------

People who likes gaming, challenges and so, want mechanics that one shot you. That's what raids are for.
People who likes to relax and have a good time, want to have a time playing their toons and gearing it a bit. That's what heroics are for.

Now the problem:

When those who like gaming and therefore raids must do heroics in order to maximize the badges to gear themselves.
When those who like to relax and have a time want to do the same as those who play more hours, play better, and are actually good.

See how they mixed it up?

What I mean is that if you're not forced to do heroics in cata, you probably won't do them with your raiding char, therefore you probably won't give a shit if the mechanics in a heroic one shot you, also if the raid content is actually hard and not made aiming to monkeys without brain, you will get one-shot, you'll have your challenge and rainbow will shine.

not directing this at you cuz i think we are similar in opinion. but...why do people think "heroics" should be relaxing? its a HEROIC...if it wasnt difficult they should change what its called.

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 03:29 PM ----------

Uhrm.. just about any trash mob in tbc heroics would kill a non-tank class if they pulled aggro in 1 or 2 hits. That was why there was so much CC ... all exceptions with rogues popping evasion, bugs and 'clever use of game mechanics'.

So the people saying that nothing was lethal in tbc.. really, really... rose tinted goggles off.

And yeah, I agree with the OP. Do something stupid and you're dead. -50 justice points!

to be fair it depended heavily on the mob.

my enh shaman in tbc would die as you said vs melee mobs, but a caster mob hit much weaker, and i could interrupt all its casts. so i was able to easily offtank it.

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 03:31 PM ----------

You need to be a bit creative here..insta kill is not a good solution for people on stuff like ...slow or laggy connections or the issues that ppl playing from Australia had. there is a million reasons why you can have lag..hell..it can be from Blizzards servers or what.

Sure - add the odd rocket strike and vortex and stuff here and there, but environmental issues insta-killing anyone ANYWHERE is pretty meh and it isn't even clever.

note: sorry for all the replies, im playing catchup.

OT: there are ways to introduce insta kill mechanics that work around lag, and to an extent if you do lag hard, your gonna die, its just how it is.

also instakills are not meant to be clever, they are meant to be noticed, and worked around instead of thru. obviously there are other mechanics we can put in that you cant outgear (the voidzones making you useless or even benefiting the boss is a good one)

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 03:39 PM ----------

and by the way just been skimming through this thread and i see a lot of crap about loken's aoe oneshotting people - or being labelled a deadly mechanic.
i would just like to point out that this is one of the laziest concepts for damage control in the game in my opinion. not only is his aoe completely harmless when with a healer who is awake, but it does less damage the closer everyone is to it. so basically - hug = no damage - try escape = ur gna die

actually it wasnt a oneshot mechanic. it was capable of oneshotting people geared for wotlk heroics. a healer back then couldnt heal everyone up so easily coupled with the dps you could pull out. if someone didnt die outright the healer ran oom before the fight was over.

but yes, now you dont have to.

[Troggdor]

New - Atramedes

you get too loud, he finds you and kills you....fantastic

---------- Post added 2010-10-27 at 04:54 PM ----------

ur thinking of the wrong attack...lightning nova, not the other dmg debuff thing

[Tuvok]

New - Atramedes

you get too loud, he finds you and kills you....fantastic

---------- Post added 2010-10-27 at 04:54 PM ----------

ur thinking of the wrong attack...lightning nova, not the other dmg debuff thing

Atramedes is proof there is hope for Cataclysm encounters. I have to say I've imagined a few interesting mechanics myself, but I never saw something like that coming, what a fantastic idea - I would love to commend the person who came up with it. If that's a taste of what awaits us then bring on Cata raiding I say. I don't expect every encounter to be so imaginative, but this is a great start and a great sign that they really are heading in the right direction encounter-wise, and have learned from their mistakes in ICC.

[Hellphantine]

Absolutely correct. The easier something is to avoid or notice, the more damage it should do.

The low extreme of this is an ability you CAN'T avoid, which should do only a little damage. Example being: Loken's aura.

The high extreme is something so blatant and obvious you'd have to literally NOT be looking at your screen to miss it. These things should not even do damage - they should just automatically kill you. Example: any of the huge projectiles which have a graphic where they're going to land, are very bright and noticeable, and have a raidwarning popup screaming "HOLY SHIT IT'S DANGEROUS MOVE".

If you fail to move for that second one, you don't deserve to live through it. Fuck you. Pay attention next time, asshat.

Here's to hoping Blizzard takes Totalbiscuit's advice on this matter. I want to see heroics where people have to actually be responsible for themselves. The last time DPS had to do anything other than DPS was BURNING CRUSADE. We've spent an entire expansion - TWO YEARS - with DPS having absolutely no secondary concerns beyond their immediate role. That is unacceptable.

lol u got banned. For anyone who believes this though.
Pretty sure defile does that whole making dps responsible for more than dps thing.

---------- Post added 2010-10-27 at 05:08 PM ----------

Atramedes is proof there is hope for Cataclysm encounters. I have to say I've imagined a few interesting mechanics myself, but I never saw something like that coming, what a fantastic idea - I would love to commend the person who came up with it. If that's a taste of what awaits us then bring on Cata raiding I say. I don't expect every encounter to be so imaginative, but this is a great start and a great sign that they really are heading in the right direction encounter-wise, and have learned from their mistakes in ICC.

I completely agree and am totally stoked for encounters like this. Dunno if how many have seen the 3 boss encounter before Al'Akir, but the videos are great and the mechanics look challenging but fun to learn and just generally awesome.