Why healing will be OK for affliction @85

[Deleted]

Ok, so after reading quite few posts and threads regarding the healing capabilities of affliction - mostly people saying it sucks donkey balls - i have decided to make a thread and explain why affliction is most likely to really become to some degree the SL/SL of old.

There are few things we must take into account which are the following things but it isnt limited just to them:
1) Health normalization
2) armor normalization & no ARP
3) a lot bigger health pools
4) lower dps at 85 level
5) combat ratings sink with lvl 81+
6) % based heals
7) soul link being base
8) damage being balanced
9) Mortal Strike effect nerf
10) importance of Demon Armor + buff

Health Pools - As most of you know Cataclysm will be bringing a lot bigger health pools. People in ilvl 333 blues at lvl 85 have generally 85,000 health. We have to consider this a lot. Right now on PTR and Beta some classes are still having their damage changed and balanced. Due to that in some cases some classes mostly casters are capable of reaching 10k DPS bursts in pvp resulting in death in 3-5 seconds.

Combat Ratings - right now with overbuffed abilities which have yet to be balanced and with ratings fom end-tier gear, players can reach incredible burst and dps - also in pvp. When in cataclysm you level to 81 and on your combat ratings will drastically sink. What was 20% haste before cn become 4%, what was 30% crit before can become 6% crit and so on effectively reducing your damage output in comparison to lvl 80s.

Less damage at 85 - DPS/Burst will scale slower then health does for cataclysm thus if you do at lvl 80 around 10k dps with overinflated combat ratings and OP talents, at level 81 with sank ratings and balanced numbers youll o around 4-5k at most. By level 85 youll be able to pull around 7k dps to max of 8,5k dps most likely and that is under the perfect conditions thus almost uneachable in pvp environment. Having 8,5k dps in pvp at lvl 85 with 85,000 hp enemies would require 10 seconds of constant dps, prolonged by other pvp abilities like CC, heals, silence, etc.

Armor - with normalized armor, my warlock at 80 has ~6000 armor giving him 30% damage reduction against melee, with Demon Armor i have close to 37% damage reduction. This already on PTR helps A LOT against melee classes who deal pysical damage. The eason why armor is actually good now is the fact that Armor Penetration is gone from game. Now it can only come in form of talents or abilities thus making armor once again meaningful

Percent[%] based Heals - With no ARP, high armor, base Soul Link, Demon Armor, and huge health pools % based heals actually become very powerful. At lvl 80 PTR damage is out of control but that is subject for balancing. With hp at the level of 85k + and pvp dps being at around 5-7k level % based heals even if its just 2% from drain life become powerful tool and other classes need to make sure to silence/schoollock us to win. 2% of 85,000 is 1700 heal. Drain Life has 3 ticks, With haste we can have it around 2,5 sec level thus we reach 2040 HPS level. With Eradication up and soulburn effect we can reach under 1 seconds casts giving us quick health and incredible damage. With Death's Embrace when we get low we heal 5% instead of 2% meaning that 1700 hp per tick becomes 4250 hp per ticks and with 2,5 sec channel time we reach 5100 HPS.Now tell me this is low? You still think so ? Ok, throw in Demon armor or Improved Demon Armor increasing our heals by 20/30%. In 30% scenario our 1700 becomes 2210 per tick and 4250 becomes 5525 heal. Couple that with Soul Siphon and Haunt heal and potential Healthstoneand you have one fking touh warlock to take out. Just so you know, 5525 ticks with 2,5 channel are 6630 HPS

Soul Link - It's now base spell and with how easy it is to get demon back with soulburn or less then 5 sec summon for 0% mana if you got master summoner it aint problem anymore unless you're getting zerged or pummeled. Also Health funnel heals for incredible ammounts now. I had reached 5500 HPS heal on voidwalker.

Mortal Strike down from 50% to 25% - Now the old mortal strike is being changed and every class who had -50% heal now has -25%. The fun part is that if we have mortal strike effect on us and we have Demon armor [30% version] on us then mortal strike is theoretically decreasing heals on us from 100% to 97,5%. Now i am fully aware that without MS we would be getting healed for 130%, but most pvp is balanced around 100% so we are golden here. This change to MS alone will increase our survivability in PvP by A LOT!!!

Soul Siphon - it is still powerful considering Rated Battlegrounds, increased costs of dispelling and ability to SBSoC for mass Corruption.with 4-5 corruptions, ach scaling with haste and lasting 18 seconds, i really dont see heal from it as weak, if you get lucky streak youll get 8% hp return in just the blink of an eye. Seriously how is this weak ?

Demon Armor - more armor and +20/30% heals is a good thing, more so with nerfed MS.


TL;DR - learn to read long posts:P
With armor, MS change, demon armor, SL, % based heals and HP growing faster then DPS and dps sink after lvl 80, we WILL be toughest casters in the game to take down [as affliction].

TL;DR2
Healing as affli is fine

[xsistor]

Another warlock dropping corruption on you will neutralise your "awesome" healing from drain life.

[Deleted]

Another warlock dropping corruption on you will neutralise your "awesome" healing from drain life.

There are no words to describe how dull and not thought through this statement is.

[Jessicka]

Another warlock dropping corruption on you will neutralise your "awesome" healing from drain life.

Or, read the other way. Your Drain Life completely negates that other Warlock's Corruption. In fact, you'll probably outheal it as DL ticks more often.

[Deleted]

Hi all, First post on these forums.

Basically just wanted to say 100% agree. I think tht ppl just see a spell nurf in writing just go in auto QQ and dont actually think about the entier situation.

[Deleted]

shameless bump so more people that doubt healin changed for affli get some answers

[Chad warden]

Even if affli healing will be good at 85 (and i mean higher then the other specs, like its supposed to) it will be complete garbage pre-cata before we get super much hp. I must say im not convinced by your reasons tho.

But anyway i dont care. I've had enough of blizzard's shit with affliction so im rerolling SP for cata. lvling atm. They have basically everything an affli locks could dream of having, only downside is that they go oom sometimes lol.

[Deleted]

Why care about "pre-cata" ? Shit hit the fan anyway. I have played since start of wow, remember every pre-expansion patch and after expansion and i can tell you that you shouldnt really care about it much.

If these reasons dont convince you ok, they are strong enough and apparently you have no reasons of yourself. I hope youll have fun with shadowpriest tho, thats a nice class too.

[gherkin]

I really have to disagree. Armor and Health Normalization doesn't matter - melee will still do damage in line with what you do. You just won't get roflstomped in 3 seconds. Health Pool increases and % based healing only increases their power to Naxx-levels. DPS isn't being lowered at 85, it's being kept exactly the same as ICC25 gear. Your dps will get lower because your gear doesn't have mastery, but when you hit 85 ilvl 350 you will do the same damage, if not more, as you did in full 277's.

And I always find the Soul Link argument laughable. What sane warlock pvp'd seriously without Soul Link? You're claiming that a spell that is now baseline wasn't technically already baseline before.

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 10:58 AM ----------

Update: I'm not saying its a giant nerf or disagreeing with your overall goal of this post, I think self healing is fine at 85 for completely different reasons than those posted.

[Dethh]

[QUOTE=gherkin;8980904]And I always find the Soul Link argument laughable. What sane warlock pvp'd seriously without Soul Link? You're claiming that a spell that is now baseline wasn't technically already baseline before.[COLOR="red"]

I agree as well but this was for PVP now at least you have it always.

[terrorlord15]

Ok, so after reading quite few posts and threads regarding the healing capabilities of affliction - mostly people saying it sucks donkey balls - i have decided to make a thread and explain why affliction is most likely to really become to some degree the SL/SL of old.

There are few things we must take into account which are the following things but it isnt limited just to them:
1) Health normalization
2) armor normalization & no ARP
3) a lot bigger health pools
4) lower dps at 85 level
5) combat ratings sink with lvl 81+
6) % based heals
7) soul link being base
8) damage being balanced
9) Mortal Strike effect nerf
10) importance of Demon Armor + buff

Health Pools - As most of you know Cataclysm will be bringing a lot bigger health pools. People in ilvl 333 blues at lvl 85 have generally 85,000 health. We have to consider this a lot. Right now on PTR and Beta some classes are still having their damage changed and balanced. Due to that in some cases some classes mostly casters are capable of reaching 10k DPS bursts in pvp resulting in death in 3-5 seconds.

Combat Ratings - right now with overbuffed abilities which have yet to be balanced and with ratings fom end-tier gear, players can reach incredible burst and dps - also in pvp. When in cataclysm you level to 81 and on your combat ratings will drastically sink. What was 20% haste before cn become 4%, what was 30% crit before can become 6% crit and so on effectively reducing your damage output in comparison to lvl 80s.

Less damage at 85 - DPS/Burst will scale slower then health does for cataclysm thus if you do at lvl 80 around 10k dps with overinflated combat ratings and OP talents, at level 81 with sank ratings and balanced numbers youll o around 4-5k at most. By level 85 youll be able to pull around 7k dps to max of 8,5k dps most likely and that is under the perfect conditions thus almost uneachable in pvp environment. Having 8,5k dps in pvp at lvl 85 with 85,000 hp enemies would require 10 seconds of constant dps, prolonged by other pvp abilities like CC, heals, silence, etc.

Armor - with normalized armor, my warlock at 80 has ~6000 armor giving him 30% damage reduction against melee, with Demon Armor i have close to 37% damage reduction. This already on PTR helps A LOT against melee classes who deal pysical damage. The eason why armor is actually good now is the fact that Armor Penetration is gone from game. Now it can only come in form of talents or abilities thus making armor once again meaningful

Percent[%] based Heals - With no ARP, high armor, base Soul Link, Demon Armor, and huge health pools % based heals actually become very powerful. At lvl 80 PTR damage is out of control but that is subject for balancing. With hp at the level of 85k + and pvp dps being at around 5-7k level % based heals even if its just 2% from drain life become powerful tool and other classes need to make sure to silence/schoollock us to win. 2% of 85,000 is 1700 heal. Drain Life has 3 ticks, With haste we can have it around 2,5 sec level thus we reach 2040 HPS level. With Eradication up and soulburn effect we can reach under 1 seconds casts giving us quick health and incredible damage. With Death's Embrace when we get low we heal 5% instead of 2% meaning that 1700 hp per tick becomes 4250 hp per ticks and with 2,5 sec channel time we reach 5100 HPS.Now tell me this is low? You still think so ? Ok, throw in Demon armor or Improved Demon Armor increasing our heals by 20/30%. In 30% scenario our 1700 becomes 2210 per tick and 4250 becomes 5525 heal. Couple that with Soul Siphon and Haunt heal and potential Healthstoneand you have one fking touh warlock to take out. Just so you know, 5525 ticks with 2,5 channel are 6630 HPS

Soul Link - It's now base spell and with how easy it is to get demon back with soulburn or less then 5 sec summon for 0% mana if you got master summoner it aint problem anymore unless you're getting zerged or pummeled. Also Health funnel heals for incredible ammounts now. I had reached 5500 HPS heal on voidwalker.

Mortal Strike down from 50% to 25% - Now the old mortal strike is being changed and every class who had -50% heal now has -25%. The fun part is that if we have mortal strike effect on us and we have Demon armor [30% version] on us then mortal strike is theoretically decreasing heals on us from 100% to 97,5%. Now i am fully aware that without MS we would be getting healed for 130%, but most pvp is balanced around 100% so we are golden here. This change to MS alone will increase our survivability in PvP by A LOT!!!

Soul Siphon - it is still powerful considering Rated Battlegrounds, increased costs of dispelling and ability to SBSoC for mass Corruption.with 4-5 corruptions, ach scaling with haste and lasting 18 seconds, i really dont see heal from it as weak, if you get lucky streak youll get 8% hp return in just the blink of an eye. Seriously how is this weak ?

Demon Armor - more armor and +20/30% heals is a good thing, more so with nerfed MS.


TL;DR - learn to read long posts:P
With armor, MS change, demon armor, SL, % based heals and HP growing faster then DPS and dps sink after lvl 80, we WILL be toughest casters in the game to take down [as affliction].

TL;DR2
Healing as affli is fine

your a fool, have you seen level *80* cata dmg on ptr?

also 2% hp a second from drain life is 2k hp a tick at 100k hp i already get liek 1300 minimum healing each tick in wrath, so stop being such a retarded clown. afflic and warlocks are dead they are now if this goes live by far the most pathetic class of all classes.

[Angelic]

No, actually you are pathetic because you only work with the data you have from 80 PTR, rather than 85 Beta. I like affliction healing as it is, 5% was overpowered really.

I only don't like Soul Siphon but, it might change because of the community complaining.

[Deleted]

Angelic - lol at those of you who think warlock will be fine now. His survival was OP in tbc and wotlk(i didnt play vanilla), now it wont be fixed. Fixed it would be with 5% drain life tick because there is no soul siphon dot and the 2% with 50% chance warlock will be eaten alive. Stop this stupidity, imagine how much is the stupid 2% and 2% with 50% chance and answer yourselves how this healig will look like, who you want to fool except yourselves.
It's not fixing warlock, those changes are pushen too far, it looks like serious nerf for this class.
And I am mage, i hate warlocks but now i feel really pity for them.
The more powerful you are, the more nerfing you to ground hurts - and warlocks are powerful now, so it gonna be veery intensive feeling and dont deny it.

[Chad warden]

No, actually you are pathetic because you only work with the data you have from 80 PTR, rather than 85 Beta. I like affliction healing as it is, 5% was overpowered really.

I only don't like Soul Siphon but, it might change because of the community complaining.

he said drain life will heal for 2k with 100k hp. If you really think that is ok then i feel sorry for you... Everyone is doing 10-20k crits all the time on ptr. this is a utterly pathetic joke.

[Deleted]

your a fool, have you seen level *80* cata dmg on ptr?

also 2% hp a second from drain life is 2k hp a tick at 100k hp i already get liek 1300 minimum healing each tick in wrath, so stop being such a retarded clown. afflic and warlocks are dead they are now if this goes live by far the most pathetic class of all classes.

And what has lvl 80 do anything with lvl 85 ? Learn to read before posting useless comments.

BTW numbers are getting balanced. Think twice before posting.

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 09:36 PM ----------

he said drain life will heal for 2k with 100k hp. If you really think that is ok then i feel sorry for you... Everyone is doing 10-20k crits all the time on ptr. this is a utterly pathetic joke.

You people really lack logic, i feel sorry for you

2k, sure but thats without counting in demon armor and its done while doing damage. Another thing is that 2k every 10 seconds isnt the same as 2k every 0,5 second. Yes because its 2k per tick and you can get Drain life cast times very low, like to 2 seconds and below meaning you receive ~6-8% hp in less then 2 seconds.

@Gherkin

You're wrong actually when it comes to armor. Blizz did this also because they wanted armor to mean something again instead of being useless stat. And they are also trying to design us as tankish caster.

I find it amusing that you repeated like 1000 times that shadowbolt will be filler because blizz said so, but you are totally ignoring the fact that blizz wants us also to be tankish casters so why pick whatever suits you?

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 09:37 PM ----------

Angelic - lol at those of you who think warlock will be fine now. His survival was OP in tbc and wotlk(i didnt play vanilla), now it wont be fixed. Fixed it would be with 5% drain life tick because there is no soul siphon dot and the 2% with 50% chance warlock will be eaten alive. Stop this stupidity, imagine how much is the stupid 2% and 2% with 50% chance and answer yourselves how this healig will look like, who you want to fool except yourselves.
It's not fixing warlock, those changes are pushen too far, it looks like serious nerf for this class.
And I am mage, i hate warlocks but now i feel really pity for them.
The more powerful you are, the more nerfing you to ground hurts - and warlocks are powerful now, so it gonna be veery intensive feeling and dont deny it.

Actually Kalgan have said SL/SL was the epitome of what they want warlock to be in cataclysm, deep affliction warlock that is.

[Chad warden]

with 100k hp, drain life only heals for 2k. thats the point. what are you talking about?

[Deleted]

With just changes to armor i feel a lot thougher vs melee. And keep casters out of argument because 75k arcane barrages AINT RIGHT and thus dont take into consideration something thatll be nerfed.

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 09:40 PM ----------

with 100k hp, drain life only heals for 2k. thats the point. what are you talking about?

Maybe read more then 1 word? Or do you have problems with understanding? 2k every 10 seconds aint same as 2k every 0,75 second.

If you got demon armor, improved, and you drain life you get back 2,6% hp PER TICK, if your drain life due to haaste is channeled for 2 seconds then youll get 2,6% hp back every 0,66 seconds. If regenerating that kind of hp wihile doing damage to the target through that very drain life and through dots aint good then well, just wait till 85.

And if it proves to be weaker then blizz expected theyll just tune numbers.

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 09:45 PM ----------

I really have to disagree. Armor and Health Normalization doesn't matter - melee will still do damage in line with what you do. You just won't get roflstomped in 3 seconds. Health Pool increases and % based healing only increases their power to Naxx-levels. DPS isn't being lowered at 85, it's being kept exactly the same as ICC25 gear. Your dps will get lower because your gear doesn't have mastery, but when you hit 85 ilvl 350 you will do the same damage, if not more, as you did in full 277's.

And I always find the Soul Link argument laughable. What sane warlock pvp'd seriously without Soul Link? You're claiming that a spell that is now baseline wasn't technically already baseline before.

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 10:58 AM ----------

Update: I'm not saying its a giant nerf or disagreeing with your overall goal of this post, I think self healing is fine at 85 for completely different reasons than those posted.

Show me just 1 scenario when in pvp you can reach as much dps as you do in pve ?

Duel someone on live with recount on and when duel ends [with your win obviously] see what was your average dps throughout the fight and compare it with pve dps. you know ppl dont just stant in front of eachother and nuke themselves mindlessly with pve rotations.

[allforone]

If you're PvPing you'll probably have demon armor on.

Already means that 2k becomes 2.6k per second before haste. and knowing that the haste and crit levels are going to be nothing like what we have now, we'll say 5-10% haste. Combine with siphon life healing for 1.3k per tick.

Now if reports are right people are seeing 7-8k dps in PvE gear, you can generally drop that by 30-50% in full PvP gear. Now take into account that with only DL and Corr on target an aff lock is going to be seeing about 3k heals per second. Not exactly a bad situation.

No, mages, only affliction was powerful(even then it was still merely at the lead of the main pack, not leagues ahead like Fire and Fury were.) Kinda like with mages and Arcane, which, while getting some changes is mostly getting ground into dust.

[Ofmanv]

Your reasons why "affliction healing will be okay" are all non warlock specific factors. In PvP, the game is relative to the other classes. You can't just apply universal factors to warlocks and give all the other dps classes MORE healing, ignoring the factors you applied to warlocks.

Warlocks have to pay MORE health from lifetap than ever before just to do their job as DPS'ers. Everyone else can dps without paying health. That WOULD be fine and dandy if warlocks self healing was brought up to compensate, but instead of compensating, Blizzard does the EXACT OPPOSITE and further punishes warlocks by making their self healing even worse on top of more costly lifetaps.

GC made up some excuses about self healing being more valuable in a world where healer's mana is more limited. So why does this only apply to warlocks? All the other dps are being handed out self healing like candy. They don't even have to pay health to use their basic resource.

EVEN IF it was excusable for self healing to be nerfed to this extent, if Blizz is going to say warlock's self healing has to be so weak, then why does there have to be so many weak talents tied into healing? Remove the shitty weak self healing talents like siphon life, demonic aegis and soul leech and give warlocks some real utility in other ways than self healing. What's the point in creating a whole new 31 pt talent system where players are supposed to be able to choose utility talents, if the utility talents we have to choose from suck?

[Deleted]

Keep it civil people.