making Shadow Bolt fit better with affliction

[Daggy1111]

SO I was reading one of those is Drain Life=Mind flay post, and they actually brought up a good point. Shadow Bolt really dosn't feel like it is a good affliction filler. Now Mind you i am not saying they should make Drain Life the filler, as that would make locks basicly spreists, but rather that they should change Shadow Bolt slightly. My Idea is pretty simple, rather then have Shadow Bolt deal inital damage like it dose now(cast the spell and damage happens),why not make it so that Shadow Bolt deals its damage like a dot. Basicly if you cast the spell, when it hits it adds a dot that deals the same damage, but over like 6 seconds. This way shadow bolt would benifit from afflictons mastery, SE, and Haunt. One thing about it though is that an effect like this would have to stack like ignite, which again is not a realy problem. It would be pretty easy to implament, and as burst damage is almost a non point in 85 pvp, it would have little effect on afflicton pvp.

[Jessicka]

Shadow Bolt being used by Affliction is representative of Warlocks using some mastery of all schools of Fel Magic. We're not specialists like Mages since we want it all, and that is essentially the point of it.

As to applying a DoT? Well, it already applies 2 debuffs, is that not enough?

[pieki]

Shadow Bolt being used by Affliction is representative of Warlocks using some mastery of all schools of Fel Magic. We're not specialists like Mages since we want it all, and that is essentially the point of it.

As to applying a DoT? Well, it already applies 2 debuffs, is that not enough?

a dot arnt the same as a debuff.

idea arnt bad but probly shod be more like 30% of its damage counts as a dot. that way its not totaly destroying damage done to anything thats not a raid boss (imagen levling if sb didnt do damage up front :P)

but i rather we get oure dots back :>

[Saverem]

I honestly think we're better off having Drain Life as a filler instead of SB. This way we won't have to tax the healers every 15s when we need to Lifetap.

[hellar]

I honestly think we're better off having Drain Life as a filler instead of SB. This way we won't have to tax the healers every 15s when we need to Lifetap.

ehh then i would feel like a spriest

[Jessicka]

I honestly think we're better off having Drain Life as a filler instead of SB. This way we won't have to tax the healers every 15s when we need to Lifetap.

They also don't want a situation of 'let the Warlocks heal themselves'.

[ComputerNerd]

If you have so much of an issue with a "destruction" spell in affliction, then go rip apart demonology too.
A good portion of it's spells are technically destruction, and the "mastery" of both schools in insufficient as long as the shadowbolt in affliction arguement exists.
A demonologist is a master of demons and the skills associated with them, not a master of the elements.
Shadowbolt fits just as much in affliction as the vast majority of those utilised by demonology fit into their spec, so making that entire arguement pointless without bringing demonology into it.
Since that so far has not happened, then that is evidence enough that is ignored from a convenience view and considered acceptable, therefore any arguements about affliction and shadowbolt are self-defeated.

I want to see this shadowbolt/drain life issue resolved, though I do not yet see how that would be achieved.

[Jessicka]

Warlocks are masters of shadow, flame, and demonic power. They are a robed class that excels at plaguing their enemies with disease or curses, hurling bolts of fire or shadow energy across the battlefield, and summoning demons to aid them in combat. While warlocks are powerful casters that deal damage from a distance, their demonic powers can also protect or support their allies in battle, or even summon other players from across the world using ritual magic to conjure portals.

Warlocks have both powerful damage spells (primarily dealing over time) and debuff spells that work well in conjunction with each other and with the abilities of their group mates. They have Curses for many occasions; in fact, they can easily be considered the best debuffers in the game. Their pets, too, help with the damage dealing and grant the Warlock extra abilities to put to use. They can also control crowds well with Seduction and Banish, and provide limited support in the form of their summoned stones.

Official description of Warlocks. Emphasis mine. We are not just about DoTs, we aren't a 'DoT class', we're a 'DoT and Debuff' class. As Affliction Shadow Bolt provides 2 Debuffs; this is entirely in keeping the class.

Edit to add: Adding further DoTs will only serve to increase ramp time up tears.

[Daggy1111]

If you have so much of an issue with a "destruction" spell in affliction, then go rip apart demonology too.
A good portion of it's spells are technically destruction, and the "mastery" of both schools in insufficient as long as the shadowbolt in affliction arguement exists.
A demonologist is a master of demons and the skills associated with them, not a master of the elements.
Shadowbolt fits just as much in affliction as the vast majority of those utilised by demonology fit into their spec, so making that entire arguement pointless without bringing demonology into it.
Since that so far has not happened, then that is evidence enough that is ignored from a convenience view and considered acceptable, therefore any arguements about affliction and shadowbolt are self-defeated.

I want to see this shadowbolt/drain life issue resolved, though I do not yet see how that would be achieved.

Actually i woulnd not have to bring demo into the argument In order to to make this make since. Demo may be about demons, but as a spec it is about both burst damage(HoG, SF, Incin,Sb) as well as dot damage(cor, Immo,doom,pet). Basicly demo is a hybrid spec of affliction and destro, which with that in mind, sb and all the other spells in demo make since. I am not saying that having a destro spell in affliction is a bad thing, if fact quite the opposite. I am saying this a good thing, but that with the way afflictions mastery works sb will not cut it as the filler spell(which I actually agree is a bad thing). By keeping sb, but making the total damage of the spell a dot(its 6 seconds, or 2 ticks to deal its damage) you gain the benifit of the mastery(which both demo and destro already have)for all spells you cast, and it would make it so drain life is not the affliction spam spell. That means that not only do you kill drain life as the filler, you also improve the scaling of affliction as a spec(which has been a problem in the past) by having your main filler spell double dip into haste(which is afflictons strong stat).

ALso to what pieki said about only 30%, although having it do all of its damage as a dot would slow you down in theory, in practice its the same thing, you just cast sb before your other dots, so it runs off all of its damage. Most fights already take more then 6 seconds(although this would slow you down a bit in the lvl 1-10 area, but thats only about 20 min. of your total time as a lock).

Edit
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Also this really wouldn't increase ramp up time, it would remain unchanged. All fights(even while soloing) generaly take more then 6 seconds to resolve as is. In additon, this isn't a attempt to make affliction a "dot" class so much as to bring one of our main sources of damage into the fold of afflictions mastery. Also I would like to point out that while this would mean that sb basicly adds 3 debuff, it is not the first spell to do so.

Also with the double dip thing i was talking about i meant that you have haste effect the inital cast(when you first cast sb) and it would also make the dot tick faster.

[Jessicka]

If the Mastery became a problem, they could just change it to apply to all Shadow Damage, rather than just DoTs. Furthermore, I'm not sure the Mastery does, or intends to, include Drains for that to be the problem.

[ComputerNerd]

Whether drains and dots are the same thing as far as the mastery goes is a big part of the arguement, and one that really does need clarifying.
The mastery states dots specifically, when players are keen to shove the two together.
Whether they are technically different, excluding drains from that mastery is something important, and I agree with that issue about shadow damage in general.

[Daggy1111]

Yeah but at both points again, sb as a stright nuke dose not scale very well with afflicton(which has 38% bonus damage to dots, not nukes). ALso drains are nothing more then channled dots, so yes they are effected by the mastery, and I would wager that they want it to effect them, just not as well as it happens now. Also affliction is still the dot/debuff spec, so sb as a dot(and again it is a very short dot) would make a lot of since and fit with the spec.

Also this would make afflictons filler spec unique, as no other spec has a short timer dot as their filler.

[Jessicka]

Like it or not, changing a component of SB to a DoT would increase the ramp up time, there is nothing to dispute about that.

It's also unnecessary as it already applies 2 debuffs, which is very much in keeping with Affliction being a DoT/Debuff spec. Haunt and Death Coil are also Affliction spells that deal up front direct damage and apply debuffs, just because Shadow Bolt applies to a different tree does not make it out of keeping with the Affliction tree - Affliction is about Afflicting, be that by causing damage over time or making other things hurt more, by way of the Shadow school of magic. That the talents Death's Embrace and Eradication also serve to increase Shadow damage regardless of source only emphasise this further.

[ComputerNerd]

A DoT is damage over time, a drain is damage over a channel, by no means the same thing.
A Drain will do damage as long as you specifically channel it, and requires you to do so for the duration.
A DoT once applied will do its damage until the duration finishes, or is removed.
They are very different mechanisms, and which is why clarification is needed, not least because there are talents which state one or the other, not just saying DoTs.

[CaspianRoach]

I'd like to see this as deep affliction talent to replace some boring ones or a tier bonus set. Like, your shadow bolt also leaves a ticking dot for %% of sbolt damage. --think Ignite or Deep Wounds or our new Burning Embers from Destro.

[Jessicka]

I'd like to see this as deep affliction talent to replace some boring ones or a tier bonus set. Like, your shadow bolt also leaves a ticking dot for %% of sbolt damage. --think Ignite or Deep Wounds or our new Burning Embers from Destro.

Because that would be unique right?

[Daggy1111]

Like it or not, changing a component of SB to a DoT would increase the ramp up time, there is nothing to dispute about that.

It's also unnecessary as it already applies 2 debuffs, which is very much in keeping with Affliction being a DoT/Debuff spec. Haunt and Death Coil are also Affliction spells that deal up front direct damage and apply debuffs, just because Shadow Bolt applies to a different tree does not make it out of keeping with the Affliction tree - Affliction is about Afflicting, be that by causing damage over time or making other things hurt more, by way of the Shadow school of magic. That the talents Death's Embrace and Eradication also serve to increase Shadow damage regardless of source only emphasise this further.

Again though I can actually say it wont up ramp up time, as you already spend 6 seconds to do anything. Think about it this way, as afflicton how many fights do you actually have that take less then 6 seconds. None. Also weather or not you deal damage instantly with sb, you still pull the same rotation on whatever you do.This means no matter how you apply the damage(weather instant or over 6 second) the same damage is done. The only way this could increase ramp up time is if you had to cast more shadow bolts then you do now to get to max damage(you dont) or it took longer then the average fight for sb to do its damage(which it wouldn't). So again, there is no ramp up time increase, as you do the same damage in the exact same time, you just cast sb before corruption while soloing. I mean when soloing what do you really do, you cast cor, Boa, and an sb and walk away. Sometimes you cast haunt to fill up your health, but thats it. Now if we change sb to a dot, the only thing that would change is spell order, so ramp up time again is exactly the same. Also again I don't care that sb is from a differant school, I even said it before thats a good thing and it makes since for a lock to do that, what I did say though is that sb scales badly in afflicton and thats before you add mastery. Now with the mastery this problem is just highlighted more.

[tyden49]

Yeah but at both points again, sb as a stright nuke dose not scale very well with afflicton(which has 38% bonus damage to dots, not nukes). ALso drains are nothing more then channled dots, so yes they are effected by the mastery, and I would wager that they want it to effect them, just not as well as it happens now. Also affliction is still the dot/debuff spec, so sb as a dot(and again it is a very short dot) would make a lot of since and fit with the spec.

Also this would make afflictons filler spec unique, as no other spec has a short timer dot as their filler.

Sorry but going on that logic "nukes are nothing more than upfronts dots". Whats stopping me from calling it a channeled nuke? Drains and channeled spells are that drains and channeled spells, not dots, not nukes they will not be affected by mastery.

To the OP it's a decent idea, but i really dont have a problem with SB the filler for aff, fits in perfectly with the spec and the lore. And what Jess said is right aff locks just arent about dots they are about debuffs to and shadowbolt applies two debuffs to the target.

[ComputerNerd]

I understand the wish to see shadowbolt more exciting, but it serves its purpose.
It just works, and I would rather see that maintained than introducing something new which will be endlessly adjusted and potentially removed or nerfed to the ground.
Take the issue with burning embers for destruction as a case in point.

The class descriptions page describes warlocks as a debuffer even, well that and a bit extra with hidden easter egg, which if desired I will describe.

[Daggy1111]

A DoT is damage over time, a drain is damage over a channel, by no means the same thing.
A Drain will do damage as long as you specifically channel it, and requires you to do so for the duration.
A DoT once applied will do its damage until the duration finishes, or is removed.
They are very different mechanisms, and which is why clarification is needed, not least because there are talents which state one or the other, not just saying DoTs.

The reason they say drains and not just dots though on those talents is that they only apply to those certain spells. Dots simply means damage over time. A channle spell is a Damage Over Time effect, that you have to keep casting. That is why those talents have the drain spells names in them, and don't just say drain spells.