Raids in Cataclysm

[Deleted]

How do would you like raids to look in Cataclysm?

I personally don't like same loot from both difficulties.

[Deleted]

10 and 25 aren't two difficulties, just two different modes which you can choose from depending on what you prefer. They were different difficulties in WotLK but in cat they're the same

[MFDOOM]

Raids are going to be made to cater for casuals in Cataclysm. I think this because there are several raids being released, and I furthermore believe that each raid will be short, which helps out casuals. I, personally, prefer linear progress through a big dungeon complex. I don't think it's going to happen anymore, with the exception of Deathwing's lair.

[Deleted]

Actually in BC there were two different raid sizes: Karazhan and ZA were 10 and others 25 I believe.
But anyway I'd like only 10 man raids, they are easier to organize and there are less rollers for the same items.

[Deleted]

Hell, I'd say 25 mans should be just a tad easier than 10 mans to compensate for the logistical effort.

[Xart]

Same loot but 25 man should drop more parts. For example: 10 man drops 1-2 parts per boss while 25 man drops 3-5 parts per boss.

[Gallahadd]

same loot, same difficulty, I play in a 10man only raid guild, mainly because although I've done 25mans I don't find them fun, or intersting, I MUCH prefer the 'feel' of 10man raids, but feel I should do 25mans to get loot at stuff, so I can be the best I can, for my guild. If in Cata I can only raid 10man, and still be the best possible for my guild, then I will be a happy camper.

[Keoren]

Same loot but 25 man should drop more parts. For example: 10 man drops 1-2 parts per boss while 25 man drops 3-5 parts per boss.

It would be the same amount per player. 2 x 2.5 = 5
Thus both would be equally rewarding loot-wise unless you specify this further.

[Vladilena]

I'd personally like to see just one raid size again.

[Deleted]

It would be the same amount per player. 2 x 2.5 = 5
Thus both would be equally rewarding loot-wise unless you specify this further.

Blizzard already made clear in a bleupost, that 25man raidbosses will drop more items per player in the raid. The exact amount of extra loot wasn't noted in the post but it astleast said, that 25 man bosses wil drop more gold and items per player.

[Jezpalulaj]

Hell, I'd say 25 mans should be just a tad easier than 10 mans to compensate for the logistical effort.

I support this. I think that in some regards, that's already the case, though... yes, it's a lot harder to get 25 people together than it is 10, and that means more chances for someone to make a mistake that could singularly wipe the raid, but at the same time, the personal accountability is lower in 25s.

Even now, healing 25 man regular modes is easier than the supposedly-equivalently-tuned 10 HM encounters, even with a lower #healers/#total players in raid. If both sizes of raid require the same per-person hps or dps, and have the same mechanics, 25 would naturally be easier than 10 for many encounters.

Really, the only mechanics that are necessarily harder in 25 mans are position-sensitive ones where you have to spread out or move a lot of people in or out of a certain area quickly. On the flip side, though, healing through that kind of mechanic in 10 man is much worse, because 1 healer moving can mean half of your healing is lost until they can start casting again, not to mention that healing range is a much greater issue.

Anyway, I really think that if they tune the encounters for the same gear level, the logistical difficulty of 25s will naturally balance out with 10s because of the reduced personal responsibility. I could be wrong.

Regardless, even though everyone is scared that 25 mans are going to die, the few 25 man groups that stay together for cataclysm will have a MUCH easier time gearing up quickly, even if the drops/person ratio is the same as 10.

[Hayro1]

I'd personally like to see just one raid size again.

When has there EVER been one raid size?

[Cernunnos]

When has there EVER been one raid size?

Think he means there isn't a 10 and 25 man version of the same raid.

COz even in Vanilla you had different sized raids. 10, 20, 40.

[MVF]

When has there EVER been one raid size?

I think he means one raid size per dungeon. None of the 25 & 10 man version of said dungeon.

[Aqua]

10 and 25 aren't two difficulties, just two different modes which you can choose from depending on what you prefer. They were different difficulties in WotLK but in cat they're the same

See the problem with this 'idea' is ...it's not possible. Balancing the difficulty of the 25man and 10man raids is going to be so overwhelmingly difficult to do for EVERY encounter people are going to cry foul play for every 'world first' that comes about because of the handling of mechanics for each variation/mode. I want the achievements for 10 and 25man to be different. That is all. You can make them the same lockout and let the guild/pug choose which they want to strive for first. However at the end of the day 10 and 25man encounters are too differently handled to be considered the same feat.

This does not bode well for the competitive raiders. And I get the feeling that is the whole point.

I was never happy with this change and will not change my stance til they realize what they've done here.

[Deleted]

Hell, I'd say 25 mans should be just a tad easier than 10 mans to compensate for the logistical effort.

For me it wolud be the other way around. The 25 man raid should be harder so that only the "big" guilds could do them. The 10 man raid's should be for smal guilds or pugs.

In this way we wouldn't see noob's with 264 on them like it was in ICC and don't know how to kill a spike, or not to aoe on sarufang.

[Hayro1]

Think he means there isn't a 10 and 25 man version of the same raid.

COz even in Vanilla you had different sized raids. 10, 20, 40.

I know that but he worded it poorly. Oh well.

[Malthurius]

I'd rather have all the raids the same size. If you gut the choice out then there is less time to spend on tuning the raids and about the same amount of people would run them.

Sure it'd be harder to get a full group, but really that's just a minor inconvenience for a minority cutting something that could have it's effort used to make more content somewhere else.

[Pinkley]

When has there EVER been one raid size?

According too OP in BC

[Dragoona]

According too OP in BC

Well what the OP writes is correct.

In TBC you had your 10 man raids and your 25 man raids. And neither of them could be done as both a 10 man AND a 25man simultaneously.

10 mans - Kara, ZA
25 mans - Gruuls, Maggy, SSC, TK, BT, SWP and even the outdoor world bosses.

If you look at our current state of raiding all our raids can be both done as a 10 and 25 man raid, so the raid can be done 2 times every week. When you look at Trial of the Crusade, its even worse you can do that place 4 times every week!!!! 10man normal, 10 man hard, 25 man normal, 25 man hard. And people wonder why content gets boring extremely fast in wotlk .....

Personally i liked the way the raids worked in TBC and it had its separation between the people that could raid a lot, and the people that couldnt.
Back then you could look at a players gear and know roughly what there skill level was based of there gear (or the fact they where a ebay char).

Now im not a person to start a whole debate on the "Raiders vs Casuals" because i know plenty of "casuals" that have done well for there selfs and have at least had the chance to kill LK in 10 and 25man this expansion. But i think the main reason people get so fussy and itchy about this whole 10/25man raid lockouts and people getting the same gear is that the more seasoned raiders cant flash there epeen anymore so to speak.

The game is changing a lot, people will adapt to it when it comes around. Its just people dont like change, its natural instinct. Think of it this way, in Tbc a lot of us said we missed the way vanilla was, in Wotlk we said we miss the way TBC was. Come the next expansion we will prob say we miss wotlk.
The game is getting catered more for the casual players nowadays and blizz knows that, that is a large proportion of there player base. They are clearly going to listen to the part thats going to be bringing in the most money. Thats just the way things work these days. All about the money ^^.

Anyways ive typed too much now and im hungry lmao