My Observations About the New Retribution Rotation: How to 9k

[Simplistic]

Since the most recent buffs I've been pulling about 9k sustained on the 83 in IF over 5-10 million damage. Lots of rets I see on there aren't pulling similar numbers, so I'm posting this for reference. I'm in almost full 277s with SM. I have tinkered (reforged) with my stats on the PTR and this is what they are currently:

2461 str
110 agil
6175 AP
945 haste
24% crit
Hit and Expertise capped.
15% mastery
The cd on my CS is 3.49s w/o jotp and 3.21 with jotp.

I'm also wearing all plate and full str pieces (no agility pieces that were formerly BIS prior to 4.01)

So basically I look at the rotation as having 3 starting points...or three strings:

1. CS
2. TV
3. TV

The rotation always starts from one of these three points (yes I know TV is listed twice).

I like to look at it this way because any semblance of a rotation, clearly, gets broken up A LOT by HOL and DP procs. Looking at the rotation in three short strings allows me to quickly realize where I am and where I'm going. If this helps you, great. If not, that's cool too. Enjoy.
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1. CS

If you just hit CS your rotation should, optimally, be: CS -> filler -> filler -> CS. This is obviously subject to building 3HP (via DP or HOL), at which point you break rotation and hit TV, always. This is where you'll be most of the time. The basic goal is to fit in two fillers. If one is all you can do b/c of cooldowns, so be it. But try for two. The idea here is that pushing back CS a tiny bit to fit in a second filler is a DPS gain.

2. TV

The next string starts with TV. If you've just used TV you should do TV -> CS ... and now you're back to the first string. Rinse and repeat. Use this string when you generate your 3rd HP from a non-CS means. I.e. HOL or a DP proc.

3. TV

The next string starts with TV too. It follows the same reasoning above, that pushing back CS a tiny bit for a filler is a DPS gain. So if you just gained your third HP off of a CS (i.e. your rotation was CS -> TV) then do TV -> filler -> CS ... and now you're back to the first string again.

That's basically it.

I also use fillers after TV while under the effects of zealotry, but only Exo (w/AOW) and HOW. Otherwise, if I use a speed pot during a zealotry (2.87s CS CD) I just use CS -> TV -> CS -> TV so on and so forth.

That's basically it. I'm not 100% sure this is the best way to do things or an air tight rotation. But it keeps me around 9k+ DPS on the lvl 83 dummy in IF. If it helps you, I'm glad.

EDIT:

Filler priority - I basically use anything that's up but give high priority to DP procing abilities over those that don't.

[4KhazModan]

What were you're numbers on live?

[Entaaro]

Did you reforge crit to haste in every case? Your crit chance is really low.

[Badpaladin]

Excellent post, other than the arrows. ">" by itself can mean two things, but "=>" or "->" is pretty clear-cut.

[Simplistic]

What were you're numbers on live?

On the same dummy, 8k+ depending on RNG.

---------- Post added 2010-10-04 at 03:52 AM ----------

Did you reforge crit to haste in every case? Your crit chance is really low.

I reforged crit and hit to mastery and haste most often. And, yes, my crit is really low. But it doesn't appear that crit is going to be one of our most important stats in 4.01+.

---------- Post added 2010-10-04 at 03:55 AM ----------

Excellent post, other than the arrows. ">" by itself can mean two things, but "=>" or "->" is pretty clear-cut.

Lol, I can see the confusion...I shall remedy it.

[friggo]

what's the point of lowering your CS cd so much if you're still waiting 4,5 seconds to use it? or is the swing speed increase better due to more chances to proc HoL?

[Deleted]

extra haste means a lot of things:

1) more mana returns from JotW
2) lower CS CD.
3) more melee attacks and melee related damage (seals)
4) more AoW procs
5) more HoL procs.
6) at a certain stage of haste, using CS-filler-CS instead of CS-filler-filler-CS gives better DPS, due to exchanging a filler with a TV.

[BDF]

what's the point of lowering your CS cd so much if you're still waiting 4,5 seconds to use it? or is the swing speed increase better due to more chances to proc HoL?

More HoL procs, More AoW procs, More Censure damage (this scales more than you think it would), more auto attacks, more seal procs, and more seals of command.

Haste is easily the second best stat to strength, though there hasn't been much math as of yet to determine at what haste point/swing speed point mastery may be better. It would vary based on how much the player already has.

(eidt: nzall beat me to it)

[ragingsoul]

sorry to burst your bubble, but what's the point of creating a rotation at lvl 80 that you can't use on lvl 85 because of stats inflation?

There is no way at lvl 85 that you can have this haste, hence making a 3sec CS rotation useless anyway.
get to lvl 85, then remake something again, and you'll see what I mean.
yes, its easy to make dps at this lvl, but you will almost get 1 shoted if you're still in 277 gear with low hp in dungeons, so it's pointless. You need to change your gear with more hp if you even want to stay alive for trash on beta.


lvl 80 dps is all about making CS a 3sec cd. this gives a lot more dps, but it's not doable further alone.

EDIT: I thought you were lvl 83 when I first made this post, only to read again and saw you were on the 83 dummy. So you can't know how things are on beta, sorry.
Yes, haste is the way to go to get CS>filler>CS>filler at lvl 80.

[marinos]

After the reforging what is the % of mastery you have?

[dulci5]

I found out this rotation after playing around for an hour or so, but I still appreciate you making this thread, it tells me that I'm doing it right

Although I'm not as wellgeared as you (600 Haste or so on the PTR), it still feels right with the same rotation.

I'm curious though, what has been your highest TV crit so far? Mines 17k with Shadow's Edge, all CD's and procs were up at the time.

[Butosai]

what trinkets did you use for this test?

[Simplistic]

sorry to burst your bubble, but what's the point of creating a rotation at lvl 80 that you can't use on lvl 85 because of stats inflation?

There is no way at lvl 85 that you can have this haste, hence making a 3sec CS rotation useless anyway.
get to lvl 85, then remake something again, and you'll see what I mean.
yes, its easy to make dps at this lvl, but you will almost get 1 shoted if you're still in 277 gear with low hp in dungeons, so it's pointless. You need to change your gear with more hp if you even want to stay alive for trash on beta.


lvl 80 dps is all about making CS a 3sec cd. this gives a lot more dps, but it's not doable further alone.

EDIT: I thought you were lvl 83 when I first made this post, only to read again and saw you were on the 83 dummy. So you can't know how things are on beta, sorry.
Yes, haste is the way to go to get CS>filler>CS>filler at lvl 80.

Just wanted to help people adjust for the month or so after 4.01 hits. I didn't say this was the end all be all rotation for retribution, just that it's what I'm using right now to pretty easily sustain 9k+.

---------- Post added 2010-10-04 at 12:57 PM ----------

After the reforging what is the % of mastery you have?

Sorry I forgot to include that in my OP, it's 15%.

---------- Post added 2010-10-04 at 12:58 PM ----------

So it's not really the rotation giving you 9k dps, but the 277-gear and SM.
Because that is the reason most people are lower Most testers know the rotation.

No, that's simply not true. They might "know" the rotation. It's clearly an easy rotation, but knowing how to implement it is different. I was shooting for that. The actual impetus for this post was all the fully 277 clad rets with SM who were doing 7.5k dps on the dummy.

---------- Post added 2010-10-04 at 12:59 PM ----------

I found out this rotation after playing around for an hour or so, but I still appreciate you making this thread, it tells me that I'm doing it right

Although I'm not as wellgeared as you (600 Haste or so on the PTR), it still feels right with the same rotation.

I'm curious though, what has been your highest TV crit so far? Mines 17k with Shadow's Edge, all CD's and procs were up at the time.

Highest TV crit on the lvl 83 dummy has been a bit over 24k so far.

---------- Post added 2010-10-04 at 12:59 PM ----------

what trinkets did you use for this test?

Tiny abomb and the Herkuml war token

[Sindy]

Why is this post necessary? The "rotation" for Ret after the patch seems just as easy if not easier than it is on live right now.

[Butosai]

Why is this post necessary? The "rotation" for Ret after the patch seems just as easy if not easier than it is on live right now.

more for the reforging and stats balancing to best produce the most dps

[Deleted]

I believe you've forgotten about GCD scaling with haste. I found on PTR that my GCD lowered at the same rate as CS, by which I mean the CS cooldown as always 3GCDs long. That way you can always go CS -> Filler -> Filler -> CS no matter what your haste level and not be "losing" any "CS time".

4.5s CS gives 1.5s GCD.
3.6s CS gave 1.2s GCD. (approximately what I have on PTR)
I would then assume the OP's 3.21s CS would give a 1.07 GCD.

Remember that most PTR testing is taking place with T10 gear, meaning stats like haste should not be getting that high until at least Cataclysm's third raid tier.

Slightly Off topic: I noticed I was getting a lot of glancing blows and parries on the PTR target dummy. In about 10 minutes I had 4 TV parries. I was standing behind the dummy, so can the dummy parry in every direction, have they changed mob combat mechanics, or is this just a bug?

yes the spell gcd lowers with haste and since pretty much all of our fillers are spells it should be possible to always fit 2 in during a CS cooldown, btw does anyone know if judgement is counted as a spell or a mele attak for GCD purposes? since if it is then all our fillers are spells except TV and sanctity of battle will always lower the time to the next CS in that case.

[Deleted]

What gems did you use? You went for STR+Haste in yellow sockets?

Also about the reforging, you reforge all items so you can have mastery in all slots? Or you reforge items to haste and go for mastery only when the item has already haste on it?

And a last question, what glyphs and trinkets did you use?

[Simplistic]

What gems did you use? You went for STR+Haste in yellow sockets?

Also about the reforging, you reforge all items so you can have mastery in all slots? Or you reforge items to haste and go for mastery only when the item has already haste on it?

And a last question, what glyphs and trinkets did you use?

I'm still gemmed the exact same way as on live. STR and STR + CRIT where sockets allow. I was thinking of changing to STR + HASTE but couldn't find any on the AH.

Glyphs currently using - exo, tv and SOT.

---------- Post added 2010-10-04 at 02:38 PM ----------

Why is this post necessary? The "rotation" for Ret after the patch seems just as easy if not easier than it is on live right now.

I think a lot of people are confused as to how many fillers to use, whether to wait for CS to come up or push it back, when to use fillers after TV and so on and so forth.

To me, it seems like no matter how or when our rotation breaks, it always ends up in one of these three starting areas...so if you're comfortable with them you no longer will be fuddling trying to figure out what spell to hit when you get flustered.

[Reith]

sorry to burst your bubble, but what's the point of creating a rotation at lvl 80 that you can't use on lvl 85 because of stats inflation?

15-16% base haste will be reachable with level 85 epic raid gear. If not in the first tier, probably the next. Rets will be reforging to haste until they hit at least 15-16% for this purpose.

There is no way at lvl 85 that you can have this haste, hence making a 3sec CS rotation useless anyway.
get to lvl 85, then remake something again, and you'll see what I mean.

I'll get to level 85, get epic raid gear, reforge haste to at least 15-16% and then I'll tell you how it goes.

yes, its easy to make dps at this lvl, but you will almost get 1 shoted if you're still in 277 gear with low hp in dungeons, so it's pointless. You need to change your gear with more hp if you even want to stay alive for trash on beta.

Level 85 rare/epic gear.

lvl 80 dps is all about making CS a 3sec cd. this gives a lot more dps, but it's not doable further alone.

Level 85 epic raid gear.

[phrash]

What is your current filler priority list? Has it changed from Judge > HoW > Cons > Exo > HW ?
I know it may be early to thearycraft but I was under the impression Exorcism might be moved up as well as HW due to the new mechanics.
Simply curious.