GC Quotes of 2008 on Heroic Dungeons

[stgeorge78]

GC burst onto the scene in 2008 during the WOTLK beta and immediately amazed everyone with his grasp of the game and incredible foresight on how to design. One of his biggest concerns was CC not taking a backseat to AOE in dungeons (sound familiar?) Here are some of the choice quotes before, during and after the release of WOTLK covering a 1 month period from October to November 2008.

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"The only think we're slightly concerned about is we don't want to see PvE CC just go away. Several classes are designed around their ability to CC, and we don't want that to be neglected. In an ideal world, this would be less of an issue of threat management and more of an issue that if the tank tries to tank 4 and 5 pulls without CC that the incoming damage is too great."

- GC, 10/28/2008

"A lot of groups are AE tanking and burning down groups. It's fun, but at higher levels the risk you're going to take is that those groups kill you."

- GC, 10/31/2008

"You will not be able to AE tank and AE burn down every encounter in Lich King like we're all doing now in Hyjal and Sunwell."

- GC, 11/3/2008

"We don't inflate the value of deeper talents. If the bottom talents were always the best there would never be any reason to take less than 51 points in a tree."

- GC, 11/3/2008

"Let's see what happens when more players are running heroics. They seem to be providing much more of the challenge you're looking for."
(in response to dungeons being too easy)

- GC, 11/17/2008

"By most account so far, you can't really AE your way through the heroic 5-player dungeons, so we'd like to see more people get to 80 and try those first. It is not our intent that CC and single-target dps are just a thing of the past."

- GC, 11/17/2008

"There is definitely a lot of AE (area effect damage) going on in World of Warcraft dungeon runs at the moment. We’re not too worried about it for now ... If we find that AE tank + AE damage strategy (with no sheeping, sapping or other crowd control) is the only way people are running heroics and raids, then we’ll probably make some changes, but for now we’re content to just see what happens."
(he goes on to list upcoming buffs to AOE for 3 classes)

- GC, 11/24/2008

"Our goal is not to make every spec in the game awesome at AE damage."

- GC, 11/24/2008

"I would not expect the strategy in Ulduar and Icecrown to be: I'll Swipe while you guys Blizzard. Volley and Hurricane down all the trash."

- GC, 11/24/2008

[Simca]

I don't see the point you're trying to make because in Beta, RIGHT NOW, CC is absolutely required on a lot of pulls.

That was never true in Wrath.

The difference was that GC made a bunch of "promises" in Wrath and didn't fulfill them. They have fulfilled them so far for Cataclysm.

[stgeorge78]

I don't see the point you're trying to make because in Beta, RIGHT NOW, CC is absolutely required on a lot of pulls.

That was never true in Wrath.

Obviously it was intended to be true in Wrath also if you read his quotes.

[iceberg265]

cool story bro? Not sure why you expect us to care about this.

[Simca]

Obviously it was intended to be true in Wrath also if you read his quotes.

I agree... but the difference is that in Cataclysm, it's both intended and has been implemented.

[Triggers]

"I would not expect the strategy in Ulduar and Icecrown to be: I'll Swipe while you guys Blizzard. Volley and Hurricane down all the trash."

- GC, 11/24/2008

I lol'd.

[Simca]

cool story bro? Not sure why you expect us to care about this.

Then don't reply. It was extremely obvious what the topic was going to be about based on the title. It's interesting to see the past statements of the developers to some people.

[Illunis]

if this is about wrath and not cata why is it in the cata general board...?

[iceberg265]

Then don't reply. It was extremely obvious what the topic was going to be about based on the title. It's interesting to see the past statements of the developers to some people.

I can tell what the topic is, I just don't understand why we should care.

[Rivin]

Er...so? Yeah, they didn't really end up doing that in Wrath (although the unexpected gear inflation didn't help), but that was two years ago. It's irrelevant.

[seam]

So, how does him saying that, and the heroics being easy compare too;

Him saying that, and the heroics being hard?

I'm pretty sure that there is a difference between the two.

[wylatron]

if this is about wrath and not cata why is it in the cata general board...?

Because some things ppl discuss are a holistic view involveing wrath and cata....open your eyes...you sound like a person bent on being a negetive nancy, or maybe you are so detail oriented you can't see the forest for the trees.

(OT) Well, I think we have to face the reality that GC can try to predict the future but things change. This is bidness mang, sometimes you gotta change your direction and roll with the punches.
This thread sounds like the OP is trying to turn GC into some lying political candidate who failed his election promises to me.

[Lyvefire]

Er...so? Yeah, they didn't really end up doing that in Wrath (although the unexpected gear inflation didn't help), but that was two years ago. It's irrelevant.

I think a lot of people in this thread are missing the point.

The way I read the Ops point is: "If GC was so adamant about aoe not being spammed in Wotlk yet it still happened, then whats to stop this happening in Cataclysm?" This is actually a really genuine concern considering a lot of people in Beta have recently been reporting that heroics have been nerfed way too hard.

[Rivin]

I think a lot of people in this thread are missing the point.

The way I read the Ops point is: "If GC was so adamant about aoe not being spammed in Wotlk yet it still happened, then whats to stop this happening in Cataclysm?" This is actually a really genuine concern considering a lot of people in Beta have recently been reporting that heroics have been nerfed way too hard.

In this case, because it's actually happening.

[Samimasi]

They actually did accomplish the "not-so-faceroll trash" in Ulduar and Icecrown.
When you outgear the content, you outgear the content. And when you get a +30% buff, then well, that tends to make things easier, you see.


You should consider a group geared mostly from Naxx 10/25 when you assess Ulduar 10/25, for example. Then consider pulling all the robots before XT, or not CC'ing the mobs before Freya, or if you can faceroll your way with the giant twin near Auriaya, etc.

[ryuke09]

another issue is that GC could not have possibly known about the success of the "hard-mode" in raiding, and the MASSIVE gear inflation that took place from it.

this by NO means caused the problem but it did magnify it 10fold.

from beta vids i have seen of heroics its looking a lot better than wrath.

[Ulgrim]

Welcome, to the world of tomorrow!!!

[AssaultDrone]

So it's been implemented this time. Does that really matter? How long before it gets nerfed for being too hard? And then we'll be right back to AoE everything down.

[Rivin]

So it's been implemented this time. Does that really matter? How long before it gets nerfed for being too hard? And then we'll be right back to AoE everything down.

They don't even have to be nerfed...it's called overgearing, and it's one of the reasons Wrath heroics seem so easy today.

[spicie]

Er...so? Yeah, they didn't really end up doing that in Wrath (although the unexpected gear inflation didn't help), but that was two years ago. It's irrelevant.

We study history so we don't make the same mistakes as we did in the past. OP is just bringing to your attention why cata dungeons may be so hard and require so much CC. Seems GC is coming true on his promises (just an expac later).