How WoTLK was only easy for scrubs.

[allforone]

First off: OP is Trololol

Yeah, if you're an officer in a "hardcore" guild and you knew people in the guild that were consistently failing, you should have done something about it. I put hardcore in quotes as if they're hardcore, then you're not apparently good enough to be in their hardcore group.

[Kesia]

that really happened to me tbh.

Me too :/

I live in Washington and we get some pretty annoying windstorms in the winter and spring. I can think of at least two times where I was suddenly disconnected because of a branch flying into a power line or something. Now whenever the wind picks up I just give the raid a heads up that my power might start flickering and disconnect me (or just say sorry, can't do the raid).

[MildCorma]

This ^.

It's understandable that the difficulty is reduced after x period of time... but keep the progression aspect there.

Progression aspect?

I think pretty much everyone here is forgetting the stats. 0.70% of the raiding world has downed the LK 25 heroic, and you say there is no progress left? 3.11% of guilds have downed the LK heroic 10..... all of this with the 30% buff and people are moaning about loot being given to people that are "boosted" through content by it? I hate to break it to you ladies but the LK is a formidable opponent. If people stopped moaning about how "easy" everything is and instead actually got themselves some progress then wow would be a much better place tbh.

Matter of note: Halion heroic 25 has been downed by 0.68% of guilds, there is no 30% buff to be had there so go go get your progress.

[NightHaawk]

The only actually hard fight in WotLK is Yogg-0 (with raid tier appropriate gear). Everything else in WotLK even Heroic LK are just dice rolls or idiot checks.

Sorry to say but LK HM is THE single hardest fight in all of WoW. RNG or not it still requires extreme coordanation and concentration.

[Lazertrooper]

Sorry to say but LK HM is THE single hardest fight in all of WoW. RNG or not it still requires extreme coordanation and concentration.

sorry to say but you are wrong. coordination or not you suck if you think it is hard.

there are fights that required FAR FAR more coordination. m'uru, vashj, kil'jaeden, yogg 0 to just name 4.

[-Rain]

Sorry to say but LK HM is THE single hardest fight in all of WoW. RNG or not it still requires extreme coordanation and concentration.

Thought that was a really funny for half a second till i realized you were serious...

[pateuvasiliu]

guys, I actually cleared 4/12 the first week ICC was released with a PUG,

Must...not...feed...the troll..9 posts...*cough*

I didn't find WotlK faceroll,most of the ppl who whine ''OMG WE HARDCORE DESERVE MUCH BETTER THAN CASUALS'',/dramaqueen mode on are mostly scrubs themselves.

Ulduar wasn't faceroll,ToC was indeed a tad stupid

Tbh i liked wolk more then TBC because of beautiful zones and stories in each one,while TBC leveling was ''OMG WHEN IS THIS GONNA END!''

[NightHaawk]

Progression aspect?

I think pretty much everyone here is forgetting the stats. 0.70% of the raiding world has downed the LK 25 heroic, and you say there is no progress left? 3.11% of guilds have downed the LK heroic 10..... all of this with the 30% buff and people are moaning about loot being given to people that are "boosted" through content by it? I hate to break it to you ladies but the LK is a formidable opponent. If people stopped moaning about how "easy" everything is and instead actually got themselves some progress then wow would be a much better place tbh.

Matter of note: Halion heroic 25 has been downed by 0.68% of guilds, there is no 30% buff to be had there so go go get your progress.

Yes LKHM is something that scrubs leveling through the dungeon system will NOT achieve but you also need to understand that in BC seeing someone in Sunwell gear you actually respected them as a good raider. Now you walk through Dal and people only recently hiting 80 can have 277's from Gunship Marrow Rotface and Val as those and more fights are pugged everyday on my server. So imagine in BC if a recently dinged 70 could run around in full sunwell gear with the legendary bow. Didn't happen.

My point is gear needs to mean something and be hard to get. One way of doing that is making the content less faceroll so idiot pugs and GDKP's can't give retards good loot. In Cata I want geared people to be respected as Raid bosses are rarely pugged and bads are driven away by the hard content. Then blizz nerfs it and they come back.....

[Kalyyn]

lulz YOU REFER TO ANYBODY BUT URSELF IN THE THIRD PERSON lulz

Please let your hardcore social skills shine on me.

God dangit, OP. I was just about to make a post on how intelligent you were and how much I agreed with you, and then you go an say something like this. -50dkp for you.

[NightHaawk]

sorry to say but you are wrong. coordination or not you suck if you think it is hard.

there are fights that required FAR FAR more coordination. m'uru, vashj, kil'jaeden, yogg 0 to just name 4.

Ask Paragon how they feel about it then come back to me...

[Deleted]

I personally find cheese and bacon to be the best ingredient in a proper sweet potato pie.

[Kalyyn]

sorry to say but you are wrong. coordination or not you suck if you think it is hard.

there are fights that required FAR FAR more coordination. m'uru, vashj, kil'jaeden, yogg 0 to just name 4.

Oh really? You are going to tell me that 25 man Heroic Lich King with no buff is not hard? Is that why it took around 6 months after the fights release just for anyone to accomplish it? Or are you trying to say that RNG kept that content uncleared month after month, and that all of the best guilds in the world just got unlucky thousands upon thousands of times, wipe after wipe?

Just checking.

[Ttam]

So... WotLK was only easy for "scrubs" but harder for hardcore "pros" I... don't really understand what the point of this was. All the content has slightly gone down but when you look at things from bc

Kara = Naxx 10 = easy
Gruul's/Mags = OS/Malygos
TK/SSC = UlduarUlduar hardmode/ToC/ToGC
BT/Sunwell = 25 man ICC/25 man ICC hardmode.

I'm sure if there was a buff given out instead of a nerf to KJ he would've been killed a lot more too, how many guilds have actually done LK hm with 0%? I've only heard of two doing it(probably more by now but that just goes to show that out of the 700 or w/e have done it only single digits have done with 0%)

[Baz]

This is what broke up our 25mans. Certain people would only show up Tuesday night to do 7/12. If PP wasn't going good they made up excuses that they had to log then they wouldn't be on the rest of the week. That is BS imo. Progression means ALL of the bosses, not just the easy ones. Go pug if you just want EZ badges (well up to Saurfang anyway). This new flexible raid ID system should be interesting. I hope it eases the problems that both raiding guilds and puggers have with progression. We shall have to see.

I agree. Last week we hit a block on H PP, even though weve killed him now every week for two months or so, and just couldnt down it. 3 tries later people are just like uhh damn lag might dc *ninjalog* wife aggro gtg *ninjalog* gota study for exam *ninjalog*
Fuck, I might believe it if it didnt happen every single time we just hit a block.

[Holtz]

It took me until late in patch 3.2 to be scouted by one of the more successful raiding guilds on my realm

This is a i am leet post in disguise.

[Rueon]

TL;DR: Yeah WoTLK was very easy for the players who only stuck around for the faceroll fights that 20/25 of the raid had taken the time to memorize and build strategies for. The other 5/25 are the ones on the forum complaining about it being too easy, when in reality they got carried and that's why it was so easy and until those players start doing their part Blizzard will unfortunately always feel obliged to implement silly things like "30% buff"'s in order to account for those 5 players that don't show up for the fight when its still being learned and think their "unique personality" is all they need to keep their raid spot for when the fight is on farm.

Back in the early Ulduar days, we got hit by a serious problem of; Naxx was carry. 25 man Naxx required 15 people to know what was happening. You're right in saying Ulduar changed that, and it's the reason I quit my guild. After a 3 days of Wiping on Flame Levithan, I was asking around with the other officers as to why this was happening, we asked our other motorcyclist what was up; He didn't know he had to pick up people.
Alright, they're kinda thick.
This time around they're sending my DK up to Levithan. La-di-dah, get thrown up, do my thing (on both targets because the other demo was being stupid, more on that later.) and get thrown off. Motorcycle drives by, where I'm pinging and doesn't pick me up. We reexplain and he asks to switch rolls because that's "Not DPS."

Normally this person would tail me on DPS for certain fights as a Hunter. I couldn't throw him out of the guild, his sister was an officer. She, as an officer, would invite anyone she heroic'd with to our guild. Saying they're a Good X. X being the roll they fill. I've seen tier 7 Mages do 1.2k dps in full Tier 7. I go on to their account, never playing an Arcane Mage before, and did 2k by hitting whatever buttons said they had large numbers on them.

It was a terrible experience, because Naxx did make people think "Hey, I can raid!" all over again.

I did leave, and for other guilds. In these times I've seen; a Paladin do absolutely insane DPS on Onxyia, and then finish the fight by running to someone he didn't like and taunting to make sure they died while having his shield up. I've seen a first time Northrend Beasts clear with just me, a healer and a tank alive (10's). I've seen a Rogue do almost all the interrupts, top-dps and provide meaningful vent-chat in 10 man Ulduar. Seen hilarious good, terribly bad, and any mix of those two.

My TL;DR: It takes all kinds, yes, people will suck, people will exploit, people to optimize, be amazing and anything in between.
I've stopped expecting an Average WoW Skill Level and have begun expecting either extremes. Because Average skill is pretty good when people can't understand Motorcycles having a roll outside pressing 1. The point is; you either get it or you don't.

[Komie]

It took me until late in patch 3.2 to be scouted by one of the more successful raiding guilds on my realm (nothing hardcore though.)

Most guilds broke up in 3.1 because they were shell-shocked by Ulduar. Many players also quit then and to hide the fact that it turned out they weren't so good at the game they invested their entire life in started QQing on the forums, endlessly, about how WoW was too easy and catered to the casuals.

When in reality it turns out that when critical thinking was thrown into the mix(a skill you don't find anywhere in your moms basement) some of the players they once thought were "bad casuals" were actually better than themselves.

So 3.2 Came out and again from day one (which the majority of the QQ this is too easy crowd still didn't rejoin WoW) people were QQing about how ToC was a joke, without ever running it. Again many of these "I'm hardcore because I don't have a job" people who did try ToC couldn't get past Gormok The Impaler. Another handful of them quit at this point and began QQing about how this game was too easy and catering to casuals.

Along came 3.3. This instance was a real pug eater, especially before the buff. 99% of pug groups never made it past Marrowgar. It wasn't until the buff reached 15% until casual pug groups (not bored raiding guild alt pugs) could reliably get passed Marrowgar. Only at about 30% do casual pug groups actually get passed the first 4 bosses consistently.

But going back in time a bit before even the 5% buff (and even at 5%) The upper citadel bosses were real skill checks on 25 man, Everybody had to be on the ball (or atleast almost everyone.) At this point the real hardcore guilds had already downed LK and were working on hard modes, but My money says that none of the "QQ this is too ez lulz" people were actually in any significant hardcore guilds.

Originally the way I thought of wipes was "This is BS, I did everything right and we still didn't win." but I later became a guild officer due to exemplary performance and good knowledge of my own class mechanics and it helped get me into the "Why did we wipe?" mentality.

It really didn't become apparent to me until one time when another player sent me a /tell on a long night at wiping on a boss we normally had on farm confiding about how "this content is so boring and faceroll etc etc." That player wasn't particularly high on the DPS meter, he got up there from time to time when all the bone spikes/oozes/vile gas etc. were constantly targeting the top DPSers but wasn't consistent. Nor was his attendance exactly consistent either.

The issue in the end was that we ended up having to take a lot of bench warmers, or pugs, etc and explain the same fights over and over week after week because the "this is too easy" players didn't always show up. On nights when we were busy smashing our faces against a progression fight they would always have "connection issues." and we would have to bring in a bench warmer and explain the fight all over again.

Then of course the inconsistent players would never have connection issues on any boss that we could reliably farm.

Their presence was only guaranteed on fights that were easy facerolls.

TL;DR: Yeah WoTLK was very easy for the players who only stuck around for the faceroll fights that 20/25 of the raid had taken the time to memorize and build strategies for. The other 5/25 are the ones on the forum complaining about it being too easy, when in reality they got carried and that's why it was so easy and until those players start doing their part Blizzard will unfortunately always feel obliged to implement silly things like "30% buff"'s in order to account for those 5 players that don't show up for the fight when its still being learned and think their "unique personality" is all they need to keep their raid spot for when the fight is on farm.

You're throwing numbers around without citing any of your sources...

"99% of pug groups never made it past Marrowgar."

I'd like to see where you got your numbers from please.

If you just pulled them out of thin air because these numbers seemed accurate to you, then the majority of your post is void.

[Jhoff]

I kindda agree with what the OP writes. Most of the people I see complaining about how easy this game is, are not even skilled enough to kill any of the end-raid bosses. Apparantly it's standard these days to flame content for being easy without being able to complete it.

[MildCorma]

Yes LKHM is something that scrubs leveling through the dungeon system will NOT achieve but you also need to understand that in BC seeing someone in Sunwell gear you actually respected them as a good raider. Now you walk through Dal and people only recently hiting 80 can have 277's from Gunship Marrow Rotface and Val as those and more fights are pugged everyday on my server. So imagine in BC if a recently dinged 70 could run around in full sunwell gear with the legendary bow. Didn't happen.

My point is gear needs to mean something and be hard to get. One way of doing that is making the content less faceroll so idiot pugs and GDKP's can't give retards good loot. In Cata I want geared people to be respected as Raid bosses are rarely pugged and bads are driven away by the hard content. Then blizz nerfs it and they come back.....

True, but then we can't expect blizzard to cater to the 1% when the 99% pay just as much. If someone is put off raiding because they can't get the loot then ofc blizz will remedy it like they have done in WotLK. To be honest, what I see on forums is more a group of people (clarified further by the "kingslayer now a nab title?" thread i saw earlier) fuelled not by progression but by loot and the "epeen" that you get from having better loot than others. Their whining is not because there is no progress, they are whining because they reached their skill cap long ago and no longer have better loot than people they perceive as less able players. These people can have their loot as far as i'm concerned (also the gearscore epidemic is insane) because the skilled players still get the heroic tokens and the best in slot items. Some pugs might get some 277, but only the organised guilds will have 284 weapons and loot from LK and Halion Heroic along with all the trimmings. I think Blizz have balanced it well tbh, as most can get some loot and feel like they have gotten somewhere whilst the best tower above everyone else still.

At the end of the day Blizz are here to make money and they won't do it by driving people away from the thing that keeps the end game interesting: raiding and progress. I don't see any of the people on here moaning about "nabs with loot" with more than 8-9/12 heroic 25, which says an awful lot.

It should be made a pre-requisite to moaning about content that you have to have beaten it first. Then people wouldn't finish their 4 heroic boss night and troll trade with "omg raiding is so ez these dais just went 4/12 hc in like 2 mins was mad lol skipped ldw tho shes hard."

[Deleted]

I swear if another person in my guild says "hey there's some storms in my area so if I d/c that's why" I'm going to explode.

One guy who was in our guild once said "I think I'm gonna get d/c" and "disconnected" little bit later. We haven't heard him after that