The Reality regarding Cataclysm Heroics.

[hakujinbakasama]

There is a pretty widely accepted concept which fits around the words off....
"It's always the most ignorant one who is yelling the loudest."

I'm going to cut this whole debate down in a nut shell.

To all the people who are out there claiming that "90%" of the Heroics are "too hard" or "overtuned", there are other people out there besides TB who have posted videos proving that these instances can be cleared, often with minimal effort. If you are finding yourself not being among that group then the problem lies with you, not the game.

Just because you can do 4/12... 6/12... or even 12/12 ICC does not mean you have the ability to do Cataclysm Heroics. Furthermore, if you are failing at Heroics on such a consitant level, it is easy to put you in the following category.

You are someone who...

A. Never raided past halfass MC pugs in vanilla wow
B. Never raided past random 3.0 Kara runs
C. Never downed Illidan pre 3.0
D. Never stepped foot past the first trash pull in Sunwell
E. Wasn't around when Heroics were first introduced live
F. All the above.

Cataclysm is going to bring back to the table what should have never left, the need to actually "work" for it. You are going to have to fill all your slots with ilevel 333 gear to have the best chance. You are going to have to sit and either farm normals, farm mats, craft items, or buy said craftables to fully gear in preperation.

However, as it has been commented on several threads, Heroics will become trivalized in time, just like everything else. But this isn't going to be like WotLK. People often forget that Naxx was downed within the first 24 hours by t6.5 gear. That set the tone of Wrath, and if you are one of the people who don't fully get what that means, you are one of the people who are having trouble in the beta.

[Deleted]

There is a much simpler option:

"You are a healer who does not want to spend 4h with a random group in a retarded heroic"

[AgentCantwell]

I agree. When dps talk about how they get hit for half of their health by a mob in a heroic I can only think, "You are right, that is weird, shouldn't it have been ALL of your health?" Tanks are taking so much damage because CC is needed to lower the amount of damage they are taking. Pulling aggro should kill you, not just be a pain for the tank. As a healer and dps, I look forward to these new heroics a whole lot. I feel bad for people who are going to have to pug but hopefully people will be forced to learn how to run a heroic and everyone will be better players for it.

[hakujinbakasama]

There is a much simpler option:

"You are a healer who does not want to spend 4h with a random group in a retarded heroic"

This is what will actually be the death of LFD system. I see, at least for the first 6 months or so, the old LFG format to be the primary. The ability boot out idiots and replace them will go back to being a standard. I wouldn't be surprised if LFD is only used by premades for their extra bonus much like the current Wrath bonus. (if there is going to be such a thing.)

[Murtdragon]

When dps talk about how they get hit for half of their health by a mob in a heroic I can only think, "You are right, that is weird, shouldn't it have been ALL of your health?"

Yep. When my guild first took me to a heroic, I had... ahem a trap missfire and I was pretty much instantly dead. I made sure that didn't happen again. It's the learning curve.

Its not all bad. For every screaming bad, there will be at least 3 players who were not terribly skilled, but will be pro now because of the tuning of the heroics.

[fizikz]

I sure as hell won't be using the LFD tool without guaranteed majority vote. maaaaaaybe if I'm desperate to do a normal mode, but definitely not heroics.

[Deleted]

In Vanilla, I was 60 for about 4 or 5 months before I got my first epic, and that's because I had to slowly gear myself up through BRD, LBRS, Dire Maul, Strat, Scholo, then UBRS, before I could even think of doing my first raid. There was a natural progression in difficulty even in the normal dungeons back then, and that's the way it should be.

Progress should be slow. It shouldn't take you less than a day after hitting 85 to be able to do your first heroic. It shouldn't take you a couple of days to kit out in 333 gear. There should be an initial point when you first hit 85 where even thinking about heroics should be suicide - allowing people to just do things when they want rather than when they can really lessens the sense of achievement once it's been done.

Heroics should provide a similar level of difficulty, and certainly a pacing of progression, that raids do, so that the people who don't have either the time or guild to raid can still experience that wonderful feeling of finally overcoming the hurdles you've worked so hard to... erm, hurdle.

Oh, how it would be brilliant for us to get to the first, or even second patch and hardened raiders still find certain heroics a struggle.

[Herecius]

I'm staying way the hell away from pure random LFD until everybody and their grandma outgears them by a few tiers. Guildies/friends only, please.

[Tviksas]

There is a much simpler option:

"You are a healer who does not want to spend 4h with a random group in a retarded heroic"

thats why you raid with friends or guild. like a smart person...

[Deleted]

I'm staying way the hell away from pure random LFD until everybody and their grandma outgears them by a few tiers. Guildies/friends only, please.

Especially the grandmas. Anyway after reading beta feedbacks after new patch about heroic dungeon it looks like they got already severely nerfed. It was fun till it lasted.

[airbornehippie]

Right on. Anyone who watches the videos put out by people who complain that "heroics are hard" will immediately see that these are people who don't think past a "me, myself, and i in this heroic" viewpoint. Will it take a couple wipes to kill a boss you have never seen before? Yeah, sure. Those who have been around since vanilla and have actually needed to use their brains on trash and boss pulls will be at the biggest advantage, but it's not like anything is impossible. You figure out a mechanic, follow the obvious rules on how not to die... and congratulations! You just thought your way past a "hard" fight. My roommate has been testing the heroics in cataclysm and i can definitely assure anyone who is in false belief with TB... These heroics are -NOT- "incredibly overtuned" / "PuG killers" / etc. In every trash pull the tank can get away with barely any health loss, and the healer can dps for fun if.... the dps use their CC abilities! Who would of thought, right? Every single dps and all healers have some sort of CC ability that lasts 6 seconds or (usually) more. This typically makes all pulls so much easier. (for those who have only been playing since WOTLK... Think ulduar when it 1st came out. Remember how the trash right after XT one-shotted the tank until we used a banish, sheep, and killed em one by one? yep.) Again, all we gotta do, is know what we can do, and apply it! =D A competent thinker who can lead and/or 5 people who have watched and read already proven strategies. This is all you will need to complete our new heroics. O, and gear u attained with leveling of course!

[dezzagod]

It seems to me at the moment that the people who are saying this is the right way to go are the me, myself & I people. The way the justice/valor points are rewarded makes it very difficult for the people who are not in the "elite" catagory. What it looks like is that people who are not "raiders" are forced to play a raid style of game to be able to get any kind of good gear. WoLK worked well with the dungeon system & difficulty because the less skilled players still had a chance to get some gear. Even if Blizz just made some justice points PER BOSS available on normal mode this may fix this issue and the Heroic difficulty then does not create such a problem

[Diatribe]

I'll be going in heroics ASAP.

Why?

Because I want to call random idiots dirty words and vent all my frustrations at them for letting themselves think they to be badasses because they did EZ-Mode content for the last 3-4 years.

[Deleted]

Your categories seem to all have a common thread;

#: You never played during TBC

I actually think that a lot of the Wotlk only players will adapt really well to the new heroics.

Because in general, human beings adapt quite well to a new situation. Yes, no one is the same and everyone is different, but in general, I've noticed that people seem to be adapting better than most people think.

If it were up to a lot of the posters on this forum to decide the reality of the world, a very small amount of people would be able to clear the heroics. But trust me, more people than you think will get through.

[Daggy1111]

I actually love the new harder heroics. Before anyone says anything too, they are harder, and it is wonderful. If you think, every pull is a breeze(I played disc and was pulling almost 5k dps with a blood dk freind of mine) and while not really "hard" by any means, they do actually reward thought. Having said that, this will probably mean better raids, and less bads(as they will actually have to learn to do anything). I like it.

[Grazul]

Solution=LFG with friends

[Gizen]

It seems to me at the moment that the people who are saying this is the right way to go are the me, myself & I people. The way the justice/valor points are rewarded makes it very difficult for the people who are not in the "elite" catagory. What it looks like is that people who are not "raiders" are forced to play a raid style of game to be able to get any kind of good gear. WoLK worked well with the dungeon system & difficulty because the less skilled players still had a chance to get some gear. Even if Blizz just made some justice points PER BOSS available on normal mode this may fix this issue and the Heroic difficulty then does not create such a problem

Or, better yet, less skilled players could l2play. We're not talking Sunwell/60 Naxx/Heroic Lich King level difficulty here, we're talking know what your class's abilities are, learn what the boss's mechanics are, and don't stand in fire. You shouldn't be rewarded for being bad, you should be encouraged to get better.

[Deleted]

Or, better yet, less skilled players could l2play.

It's a good thing that the majority does.

[DrNemesis]

Progress should be slow. It shouldn't take you less than a day after hitting 85 to be able to do your first heroic. It shouldn't take you a couple of days to kit out in 333 gear. There should be an initial point when you first hit 85 where even thinking about heroics should be suicide - allowing people to just do things when they want rather than when they can really lessens the sense of achievement once it's been done.

Well in my experience WotlK was like that originally. My first DK tank took me a lot of effort grinding rep gear and crafting or buying equipment to be ready to tank Heroics. I certainly did not step out fresh level 80 into heroics with questing gear. A lot of players seem to be forgetting this. Granted, now its a lot easier, but despite a number of comments saying 'Hur hur ding 80 and get free epix from heroics' even this is not truly the case except for alts. I recently levelled a Mage to 80 and on the day I hit 80, I couldn't queue for any heroics with the gear I had from quests. I had to make epic tailoring robes to get into the LFD. The average rank noob main will not just 'walk into heroics' with questing gear, and faceroll their way into raids. To pull this off requires a degree of understanding of the way the game works.

[Whysomadbrah]

There is a much simpler option:

"You are a healer who does not want to spend 4h with a random group in a retarded heroic"

Yet the shoe can easily fit on the other foot. You are a dps who does not want to spend 4h with a random group in a retarded heroic because the healer stopped being good when they removed their face roll potential. DPS aren't the only people who are being forced to step up to the plate, and you can argue that healing is hard right now, but you'd be lying to yourself.