Death Knight and CC

[Holtz]

Sorry if this has been posted but i did search and found nothing coherent.

Frost and Unholy Death Knights all the world around. Come to hear my words! After seeing some HC Vids form TB and others it seems that cata will be a lot more CC friendly.

1. Why do you think blizzard wants us without a cc?
1.5 What do we have that makes up for it? !OBS! REMEMBER blizzard wants homogenization now. The argument all classes are different does not roll any more.

2. How do you think this will work with the LFG Tool?

3. Are you sad that your only role will be to hit the mobs hard? When the rest of the group talks about pulls and CC you will be standing there all alone and rolling your tumbs, even the warrior will say. Hey guys, i can use my fear on this one.

[Zao]

Only because Heroics are more CC friendly, doesn't mean that you need to stack it. You'll be perfeclty fine with 1-2 ccs (assuming you and your party are competent)

1. PvP balance mostly, and because they DON'T want total homogenisation. They want that no class as a significant advantage in PvP/PvE and that does require to homogenise a bit. If they could somehow establish perfect balance between classes with every class having entirely different abilities, they'd do so.

2. Won't have an impact, since LFG tool sorts like this:
One tank, one healer, three DPS
One of each class
Roughly equivalent Ilvl

Especially the 2nd point pretty much assures that you'll end up with enough cc.

3. You're a DPS. it's your job to hit stuff hard. If you don't want to do that, you can always tank (which could be considered it's own form of cc)

[kerwyn]

Hungering cold is a pretty nice "OH FUCK" CC button.

[Holtz]

Only because Heroics are more CC friendly, doesn't mean that you need to stack it. You'll be perfeclty fine with 1-2 ccs (assuming you and your party are competent)

By accepting your way of thinking the following setup is possible. Tank: Warrior, Healer: paladin, DPS: Unholy DK, Fury Warrior, Shadow Priest How would that handle one of the harder heroics in Itemlevel 337 or higher.

Hungering cold is a pretty nice "OH FUCK" CC button.

Ohh yeah. Forgot about Hungering Cold.

[wrathblade]

put ya ghoul on it

[Deleted]

hungering cold + the fact we can switch glype at ay time after learnd them a frost deathknight wil have to most op cc for any heroic in the first pull run in after the tank do hungering cold all mobs be cc(if that are not immune ect) tank picks his mob the dps those down first in 10 sec window kill the first if there is more cc classes like mage or warlock the can add a poly or fear ect

its just over come and adjust

[Foibles]

There aren't any mobs that can be killed in 10 seconds in the new heroics.

[Cloud8690]

By accepting your way of thinking the following setup is possible. Tank: Warrior, Healer: paladin, DPS: Unholy DK, Fury Warrior, Shadow Priest How would that handle one of the harder heroics in Itemlevel 337 or higher.

I have to ask, why part of Zao's post did you not understand? You listed a group make-up with virtually no cc and he said you only need 1-2.

[Holtz]

I have to ask, why part of Zao's post did you not understand? You listed a group make-up with virtually no cc and he said you only need 1-2.

I am sorry if you felt that my reply was not what you hoped for. I was only continuing the discussion of my second question witch you can find in the first post of this thread. I am simply questioning blizzards thoughts about giving great cc to some classes and virtually none to some classes. And by quoting Zao I invited him in the discussion with me. If my eyes are not mistaken he suggest that the LFG tool was a none issue and did not need to be addressed. I was aiming to prove him wrong on that point and posed an example of a group with almost no cc.

It is my opininon that you need to work on your forum tone a bit. When i read your post i think of it as a sort of challenging and possibly aggressive post stating that i did something wrong when posting and would have been better of not posting at all.

[kerwyn]

It is my opininon that you need to work on your forum tone a bit. When i read your post i think of it as a sort of challenging and possibly aggressive post stating that i did something wrong when posting and would have been better of not posting at all.

If you look at all the possible group combinations, the chances of the dungeon finder producing a group with absolutely no usable crowd control is very low.

(The group listed above has crowd control in any dungeon with undead, such as SFK heroic)

[Holtz]

If you look at all the possible group combinations, the chances of the dungeon finder producing a group with absolutely no usable crowd control is very low.

(The group listed above has crowd control in any dungeon with undead, such as SFK heroic)

It is true that the chance is low for such a composition of group member. But it is still going to happen.

[Sundreamer]

DKs r the new hunters...kiting inc :P

[Momome]

Is this a joke? DKs are the best class in the game at locking down a single target. Mind Freeze, Strangulate, Ghoul Stun, Charge with Empowered Ghoul if Unholy, Arcane Torrent if Belf, AOE stun if Tauren, Hungering Cold if Frost, Death Grip interrupt, etc etc. Plus if worse comes to worst we can taunt and kite indefinitely with Chains of Ice snare.

If you're honestly trying to argue that DKs have no CC you need to learn to play your class, seriously :P

[AlexGrey]

By accepting your way of thinking the following setup is possible. Tank: Warrior, Healer: paladin, DPS: Unholy DK, Fury Warrior, Shadow Priest How would that handle one of the harder heroics in Itemlevel 337 or higher.



Ohh yeah. Forgot about Hungering Cold.

Besides the HC, the Warr and Priest both have fears, interrupts, and silences. Such an odd setup CAN work in the harder heroics, but some sacrifices must be made in lieu of the choices. Perhaps you will need the warr to off-tank, or the priest to help heal.

Try thinking around situations, it's much better than slamming your head on your keyboard in disgust...

[DerSenf]

Is this a joke? DKs are the best class in the game at locking down a single target. Mind Freeze, Strangulate, Ghoul Stun, Charge with Empowered Ghoul if Unholy, Arcane Torrent if Belf, AOE stun if Tauren, Hungering Cold if Frost, Death Grip interrupt, etc etc. Plus if worse comes to worst we can taunt and kite indefinitely with Chains of Ice snare.

If you're honestly trying to argue that DKs have no CC you need to learn to play your class, seriously :P

Rogues and Prot-Warriors would like to say hello.

Chains might be the only ability of all your listed stuff that can actually remove a mob effectively from the tank.

[Nitros14]

A frost death knight is also very capable of kiting multiple mobs around.

[ungar]

Sorry if this has been posted but i did search and found nothing coherent.

Frost and Unholy Death Knights all the world around. Come to hear my words! After seeing some HC Vids form TB and others it seems that cata will be a lot more CC friendly.

1. Why do you think blizzard wants us without a cc?
1.5 What do we have that makes up for it? !OBS! REMEMBER blizzard wants homogenization now. The argument all classes are different does not roll any more.

2. How do you think this will work with the LFG Tool?

3. Are you sad that your only role will be to hit the mobs hard? When the rest of the group talks about pulls and CC you will be standing there all alone and rolling your tumbs, even the warrior will say. Hey guys, i can use my fear on this one.

Dk's may get some form of CC as far as disable, stun, or slow. I doubt it, but wouldn't rule it out. They may become more homogenized, but I'm not convinced thats what blizzard wants, more likely its just easier that way with all the QQ and complaining. A big problem in the game especially in america is that players want everything. you want to be the best, more than competiting with the enemy faction, we compete among our friends and peers in WoW. maybe this is part of the reason its popular, but players dont like when another class gets an ability they wantand it seems the only way to appease them is to give them a similar ability.

I would rather people be happy with what they have and not covet each other so much, if you like what the other class has, play them instead, every character doesnt need everything, and ultimately it hurts the game.

I see blizzard sometimes hesitant to give players what they argue for, but I also think they're sometimes reliant on the players, like when an expansion comes out, they need to sell copies. Also they have bosses to answer to so sometimes have to give into the griping.

Even this post is asking for a DK CC and sorry, dont mean to sound like a jerk, but the response to that is !OBS! REMEMBER blizzard wants homogenization now. realize, its you thats requesting the homogenization, thus far if DK's dont have it its because thats not what blizzard wanted.

The warrior fear isnt homogenization because its AOE and unpredictable. the mobs may run into a patrol and aggro more. its not "control" unless they changed that recently

[Cloud8690]

It is my opininon that you need to work on your forum tone a bit. When i read your post i think of it as a sort of challenging and possibly aggressive post stating that i did something wrong when posting and would have been better of not posting at all.

I fail to see why I would need to work on my forum tone. You may have been responding to your second question, which you clearly didn't specifically mention in that post meaning it was left to the reader to try and figure out what exactly you were talking about. In my case, you quoted Zao's reply, the part of his reply that didn't specifically answer either of your questions as it was typed above his actual answers. Which lead me to believe you're response was specifically directed towards his. Possibly a bit of a misunderstanding, but the blame is hardly mine to bare alone in that regard.

[Holtz]

Is this a joke? DKs are the best class in the game at locking down a single target. Mind Freeze, Strangulate, Ghoul Stun, Charge with Empowered Ghoul if Unholy, Arcane Torrent if Belf, AOE stun if Tauren, Hungering Cold if Frost, Death Grip interrupt, etc etc. Plus if worse comes to worst we can taunt and kite indefinitely with Chains of Ice snare.

If you're honestly trying to argue that DKs have no CC you need to learn to play your class, seriously :P

When i say CC i mean a form of control that completely shuts down a mob. Sorry for the misunderstanding. If we are talking about all forms of control then yes, the dk has plenty of utility spells

To clarify my intent with this thread: I want to understand how blizzard wants us to play and what position we have in the game with the "new" homogenization. This is not a rant or a i want x ability thread.

There is a possibility that we sometimes might be singled out when trying to find a group for a HC. The Hc's might be so hard in the start that the LFG Tool might not cut it and you will need to look for players the "manual" way.

Besides the HC, the Warr and Priest both have fears, interrupts, and silences. Such an odd setup CAN work in the harder heroics, but some sacrifices must be made in lieu of the choices. Perhaps you will need the warr to off-tank, or the priest to help heal.

Try thinking around situations, it's much better than slamming your head on your keyboard in disgust...

I completely agree. However if the world would work that way i would not be writing this post and World Trade Center would still be standing. Also hunger and thirst would be extinct and so would war and hate.

[Cloud8690]

If you get singled out of a heroic because you are a death knight, the group is likely not worth going with in the first place.