Your Holy Pally and 4.0

[Leylin]

You're right of course - no idea what I was thinking when I wrote that. Although quoting the entire post just to say that? Nothing positive?

tbh it was really really good , I was just in the middle of trash while typing and thought id quickly tell you ^_^

It seems good ^_^

[Firecrest]

My paladin is in Tyranny on Drak'tharon. Top 100 US. We have been playing around trying to see if we can get more out of our toons. Right now in a raid environment we can't keep up.

Where we used to rock top 1-2 on healing we are now bottom by a significant margin. The raid heal we have is not enough to offset our tank healing being gutted.

This is pretty much where I'm finding myself as well. All you people who are nay saying the OP are coming at this with the handful of dungeons you ran after servers came up. Of course you were able to blow through them. They're freaking Heroics.

The performance of myself and the other Holy Pally in our raid tonight was abysmal. The fucking S Priest was nipping at our heals on the meters the whole night. I obviously want to give it some time before I strat making assertions, but my initial impression is that our spells are just too weak and slow and we don't have any tools that justify our raid spot.

The problem is that we're using these small, single target heals to raid heal what any other heal class could do 10x better with their raid heals. And our one big heal is too slow to really be very effective. By the time it's done casting, either the tank is dead or you've been beaten to the punch by other faster heals.

[Ronark]

The problem is that we're using these small, single target heals to raid heal what any other heal class could do 10x better with their raid heals. And our one big heal is too slow to really be very effective. By the time it's done casting, either the tank is dead or you've been beaten to the punch by other faster heals.

I agree 100% with everything- I'm not sure when the IoL proc effect will go through, but I found it rather difficult to cast DL without letting the tank drop significantly.

[Bhodi]

Last night was a late raid, and most peoples UI's were borked and they were just getting used to the class. So we goofed around in Ulduar to test things out. We have raided Ulduar the last little bit getting people the 0 yogg mount, so we had recent parses to compare with. Paladin healing was rough, the clutch was taken out of it and regardless of fight or how we approached it we were all 1% of each other but 30-40% behind shaman or priests.

Today we did 11/12 HM with some LK HM attempts with the new set up. The throughput on paladins is so low we are having a hard time justifying using them. Unless we find a magic rotation or stat changes that increases throughput by about 25-35% it ain't looking pretty. I could log on my alt resto shaman which is about 6k gs and double my HPS.

[Moggle]

Related, but still slightly off-topic:

I healed through a few heroics tonight on my paladin, and while noticing the various nerfs.. man did I have fun! The healing is way more dynamic now that it was before. I was using more or less all of my healing spells and the different proccs really encourages you to do so, and will also make the difference between a good healer and a bad one.

I can't wait to try out it in ICC, while I'm also a bit nervous over the mana-regen and whatnot Oh well. Just thought I'd just pop in my 5 cents on the changes, because I think this is what's important, having fun and not necessarily doing things optimal - and by that I mean it's more fun having a more dynamic and rewarding healing system rather than a ridiculously overpowered spammable AoE-heal that would never risk letting anyone die.


Edit: oh, and yes I do agree that our throughput is low. At my level where you're still struggling to clear the regular 10man ICC I don't think that's going to be too much of a problem though as we were overhealing ridiculous amounts before. But yeah, I definitely feel it will not be enough for the absolute endgame, at least not when you have other classes who do the job much better available.
I just wanted to note here though that that was not what I was commenting on, I was referring to the feel and dynamics of our healing and I think it feels great and I can finally feel that I enjoy healing.

[Tsimp]

Lol, yes because druids and disc priests are know for huge heals. Even on ptr, druids couldn't "spam" a 20K heal. Healing Touch can crit for 20K but with its high cast time and high cost its pointless (everyone's dead and no one needs that much healing) and you will definitely go oom. Otherwise you'd need a crapload of crit and haste, which is currently unavailable.

All healers were hugely nerfed, but at least you have a while to adjust.

bull, my shammy, priest, and druid all do more healing now. CRAZY heals in fact. While my holy paladin is OKAY, its NO match for the others.

[Sabitharan]

I haven't Stepped into ICC with my pally yet just did a few 5 mans. First one I did was H HoR. At first I was doing horrible. Went oom when we hit wave 4 then wiped. After that I was more selective on when to pop cooldowns and the spells I used. Had not a huge problem but I was cutting it close. Got some lucky heals off at the right time.

Honestly Divine Light and w/e that AoE heal is called I find almost completely useless. AoE heal is way to weak and Divine Light is just way too long. Kinda thinking haste is going to be more important that it is valued currently.

[Fizzlebeard]

The problem is that all other healers don't have any mana problems @80 in 4.0. They can blanket HoT the raid and throw around their AoE heals without a problem, something we can't do. On top of that, our main mechanic is a free heal (WoG), which does nothing in a world where mana is unlimited. This is why we pale in comparison to other healers currently. I have a sliver of hope that it will be fixed along with the DPS buffs/nerfs, but as long as I can heal heroics, I can wait until Cataclysm.

The mechanics are awesome for Holy now though!

[Taygete]

The performance of myself and the other Holy Pally in our raid tonight was abysmal. The fucking S Priest was nipping at our heals on the meters the whole night. I obviously want to give it some time before I stat making assertions, but my initial impression is that our spells are just too weak and slow and we don't have any tools that justify our raid spot.

The problem is that we're using these small, single target heals to raid heal what any other heal class could do 10x better with their raid heals. And our one big heal is too slow to really be very effective. By the time it's done casting, either the tank is dead or you've been beaten to the punch by other faster heals.

Yup, my experience was exactly the same, complete with spriest.

Something has to change, our throughput shouldn't be this low with the level of gear and content. I don't really want to shelf my paladin for the next two months just because these talents/spells are supposed to *eventually* work better once I get to 85.

The mechanics are fun, but this needs a fix.

[Nekovivie]

The performance of myself and the other Holy Pally in our raid tonight was abysmal. The fucking S Priest was nipping at our heals on the meters the whole night. I obviously want to give it some time before I stat making assertions, but my initial impression is that our spells are just too weak and slow and we don't have any tools that justify our raid spot.

Just wanted to QFT this. Myself and my Holy Paladin amigo in our raid last night absolutely healed our backsides off, only to be laughed at by Priests and Druids meter wise. Shadow Priests almost did more than us, all the while topping the DPS meter aswell D: Shamans seem pretty much unchanged in honestly, their chain heals still as powerful as ever.

They seriously need to take a look at this, at the moment we just cant compete. It's not even due to the 'Holy Light' spam mindset - you use all the heals available, you just can't manage to stay with other healers. Even using FoL, which is supposed to be quick for emergencys, you can't keep up, as other healers just seem to go on and on with massive group healing while you're just bombing single targets. It's annoying being close to BiS gear and you feel like you're gimping the raid.

You can't even rely on beacon anymore as 50% makes the tank kind of vulnerable.

Sigh....

I'm also finding it hard using the Holy Power. You can save up 3 points of it, ready to use Word of Glory - but the raid is always pretty much topped up with the massive HoT's and jazz from other clases, that you end up being inefficient with your Holy Power. You either waste it, using it on someone who only needs a tiny bit of healing, or you store the power, basically denying yourself from more.

As for plea.. well, I used to use it quite frequently before 4.0, but now I simply not dare. The mana return is so pitiful, and now you have small heals the 50% really hurts. Many fights dont even have 'off moments' where its safe to use it.

[HolyLiaison]

First of all I think people are freaking out way too much. Healing/DPS meters don't have the proper code to keep track of our new healing/absorb effects properly. We've probably changed more than any other healing class.

Second of all, I LOVE the new Holy Paladin. So here are my tips:

Reforge all your gear. Remove Crit and change it to Mastery Rating. I started with 36% crit and ended up dropping to 30-31% crit. I went from 8% on my Mastery to 15%, which is HUGE considering that it makes us put an absorb shield on someone for 15% of the amount we healed them for. It's huge huge huge. And very awesome! My crit Divine Lights were putting up 4-6k absorb shields, 6k with Wings and Divine Favor 2pc bonus T10, 1-3k absorb shields for normal FoL, Holy Light, and 2-3k for Holy Shock. It makes a huge difference, I can't say that enough!

I haven't re-gemmed my gear yet, still stacking Int like a mad man. 41k mana with Kings. If you have replenishment in your raid that's plenty of MP5. In heroics I've had ZERO problem with my mana pool. I stay near topped off every run I've done.

Here's my spec and glyphs: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#scIbzrduuczhb:aVmkdsMcm



Holy Shock: It's been said already but Holy Shock is your bread and butter now. Use it when it's not on cool down to stack that Holy Power!

Holy Light: Use Holy Light when the incoming damage is minimal and you can afford to use a kinda slow small heal.

Flash of Light: Use only in emergencies. If you need a quick heal (and Holy Shock is on CD/Word of Glory doesn't have 3 Holy Power) to top someone off, or to save someone's life. Costs a lot of mana! Honestly, I've barely casted it at all.

Divine Light: This is the Holy Light replacement. Heals for a lot, costs a lot. Slow'ish cast. This is the "bomb" heal. With 41k mana I can cast it for quite a while, with replenishment I can cast it even longer.

Word of Glory: Use this when you have 3 Holy Power! Use it as soon as you can. I usually use it for the next person that needs a heal, unless it's a trivial amount. Doesn't cost any mana, so use it freely! If you get a proc from Eternal Glory in the Prot tree it's 2 free heals in a row. It's wonderful!

Light of Dawn: This is our frontal cone AoE spell. Use this only if it's going to hit 3 or more people, other wise it's not worth the mana. I usually use it to top off groups after pulls when we're all pretty close together, or to heal melee during boss fights. It's a handy spell. I like it! Doesn't work in all situations though, so keep that in mind!


Overall I think our output is a *little* low, but it's not bad. I like all the changes though, it's made the class a lot more interesting and fun to play that's for sure!

[Aradin]

"Here's the deal: level 80 is going to be a little crazy. There is a reason we're going to end the PvP season before the next patch goes live. There is a reason we had to make PvE adjustments, such as Chill of the Throne. Critical new abilities aren't available until higher level. Combat ratings are much higher than they will be once everyone starts leveling, and likely higher than they ever will be again. Health ratios are much lower than they will be with higher level gear.

We're not totally throwing up our hands at level 80, but it's also far less of a concern than level 85. If there is truly broken stuff going on, we'll fix it, but some things will also fix themselves once you can level again.

The "lame duck session" before a new expansion goes live is always a little odd and exciting. My advice is to chill a little, sit back, and watch Deathwing destroy your world." -Quoted from a Blue Post. If you want to see it yourself, go to the main page, page 2. Second post by Boub.

I'm going to go by this blue post for now. Sure, it's a pain for this change atm, but everything should work out soon. Come Cata, we'll have more Int giving us SP and bigger heals, in turn making our mastery better and more desired. Sure, it might hurt not being where we used to be previous to this patch right now, but tough it out.

Also, make sure your using Holy Shock before Divine Light...always. I have this nice little rotation of
FoL -> HS -> DL -> WoG -> rinse repeat. This is for going into a fight without any Holy Power.
WoG -> FoL -> HS -> DL -> rinse repeat. This is for going into a fight with full Holy Power.
Sometimes you will be able to Holy Shock again without using FoL. Use procs when they are up, such as Daybreak, and if your specced for it, Eternal Glory. If the Divine Light procs Daybreak, then the rotation should be
HS -> DL (Daybreak proc) -> WoG -> HS -> Rotation from above.
If Eternal Glory procs, then use WoG twice, then start the rotation over again with FoL.
I'm still messing around with it, I don't know if this rotation has been previously said, so sorry if it has been. That rotation,however, is for straight tank healing. Holy Light is excluded. It can be switched with Divine Light if damage is light to help conserve mana. Again, sorry if these same rotations have been posted elsewhere, haven't really seen them, however. Also, it's always good to go into a fight with full Holy Power...don't forget this. Word of Glory, specially so when specced for it, is your best friend.

Just remember, raiding isn't about who is on top of the meters. It's about downing bosses. Don't worry about your placement on meters that much if the bosses are going down and your able to do your job. Meters are ego boosts, that's all.

P.S. About us raid healing. Once again, everything will be better come Cata's release and level 85. Don't forget, we still have Holy Radiance and the Guardian of Ancient Kings (Double heal + old Holy Light glyph, albeit a rough cooldown) to look forward to =)

Also, my current spec and glyph set up that I love - http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#scIbzrkuhfzhb:mcVdsrmcM

[Deleted]

Meters are ego boosts, that's all.

But I like my ego... :'<

[FiveDkp]

They fixed Meteorite Crystal proccing twice on Beacon so yeah big change in BIS there.

[Deleted]

Also, don't forget that our base mana is a lot lower than it will be at lvl85 and therefore our healing spells are a lot cheaper than they will be. Divine Light is at 11xx or so mana. So, for the time being, spam it like you would the old Holy Light.

Oom is not an issue for me atm. Of course i havent tried any icc raids so take my words for what they are.

Needless to say, we wiped a couple of times with a pug in Ulduar XT weekly (hard mode - on easy mode it was fine) and we also wiped on Toravon 25... ye... (2healers in Ulduar, 4 healers in VoA25 although not well geared from what i could tell)

[seigert]

Also, don't forget that our base mana is a lot lower than it will be at lvl85

Our Intellect values are much lower than it will be at lvl85. So our total mana are much much lower then it will be.

[Deleted]

the only things that trouble me are our so called "mastery", that just doesn't roll / stack, thus making it really terrible and the very low throughput of LoD. I just can't see any sense in using a 3.5k - 6k Heal, even if it hits 10 targets, thats just not enough to top every one off.

i know keeping everyone at 100% is not the design goal cataclys has (and i really approve ), but right now, we don't play cataclysm....and leaving a raid or a tank at 50% will mean a dead tank or a dead raid in a couple of moments.

to say something positive: i played different healing classes throughout WotLK and decided to stick with a holy paladin for the next expansion - and i'm not regretting that decision. holy paladin feels very dynamic, i like that very much

[FiveDkp]

This is pretty much where I'm finding myself as well. All you people who are nay saying the OP are coming at this with the handful of dungeons you ran after servers came up. Of course you were able to blow through them. They're freaking Heroics.

The performance of myself and the other Holy Pally in our raid tonight was abysmal. The fucking S Priest was nipping at our heals on the meters the whole night. I obviously want to give it some time before I stat making assertions, but my initial impression is that our spells are just too weak and slow and we don't have any tools that justify our raid spot.

The problem is that we're using these small, single target heals to raid heal what any other heal class could do 10x better with their raid heals. And our one big heal is too slow to really be very effective. By the time it's done casting, either the tank is dead or you've been beaten to the punch by other faster heals.

Agreed, we two healed everything ICC-10 man and my shaman partner was carrying me through the whole way, on BQL i got beaten by the Shadow Priest in effective healing and easily won overhealing meters. Also 2 healing PP and my shammy partner goes down, I had to have 2 DPS switch healing to heal and in that time, they almost healed more than I did.
Light of Dawn is useless. I used it a total of 6 times in the dungeon.
Everytime my shammy friend got Unchained magic at sindy, You noticed it right away as i struggled to keep raid members up until he got out of unchained.
I did in some fights get close to his hps (10k hps vs my 7k HPS on princes).
However, he always won every single fight regardless of what i did and he was tank healing and raid healing.
I could only tank heal and raid heal very poorly. (This is ICC10 HM, Where your healers are needed to be really good)
I know 2 healing Sindy and PP aren't smart but i bet a druid or a priest could heal alot better in my part instead of me.

[Coar]

Holy Paladins are completely imbalanced, We cannot tank heal nearly as efficiently, FoL is the new HL and Vise Versa, But we can no longer spam FoL to keep the tanks alive, it costs too much mana and heals for MUCH less then a HL before.

Other classes can tank heal much better then us currently

On top of that, we only have one AoE heal which is probably the worse heal in the game at this point.

So we are spamming one target heals that only hit for about 7k, while druids are popping wild growth, priests are popping prayer of mending, shamans are popping chain heal and earth shield.

We are shit.

Note: If you are looking at my Armory, it is currently not updated.

All blue sockets are Int/spirit, orange are Int/Haste.

Any gear with just crit on it is reforged into haste.

Any gear with crit and haste, has it's crit reforged into mastery.

[Nutz]

I like the feel of the new holy paladin, and it is definitely more interesting but the HPS just isn't there at the moment. I feel like my basic flow is as Blizzard seems to intend it to be:

Keep judgements of the pure on yourself and beacon on the tank (just like before), holy shock someone in the raid on cd, word of glory someone in the raid every time you get 3 holy power, and use speed of light procs to cast a fast Divine Light or Holy Light on your beacon depending on the incoming raid damage. Flashlight of Dawn is pretty weak and clunky as am aoe heal. Even though it seems cool, I'd rather have something similar to what Glyph of Holy Light was or a much lower cooldown on it without having to reduce its healing amount.

Our HPS has clearly taken a hit with the current state of how Blizzard wants us to heal. I'm confident that some tweaks will be made. With that being said, I am interested to hear from some other paladins who are also doing hardmode 25's.