Enhance PVP - initial view

[raggoo]

Hey,

Not played a great deal, but thought I would view some of my early thoughts (bearing in mind the total in-balance). This is from the perspective of gameplay more than "can i kick ass" or 0wn.

* really lke the gameplay style now, feels quite different, more "rounded" - actually need to think alot more about what i am doing
* 15sec hex is fantastic - just need to re-learn play style to benefit more
* stoneclaw 20 secs is nice
* wolves 2mins - miss the extra sprint... but it seems decent, more viable is some way
* Healing seems alot better, more important, and where i probably didnt use as much before, I heal alot more now - i like this, feels better once again in what an enhance should do
* LL - whoosh, this is very nice, lining up so that you get a fairly nice burst, timing with hex and interrupts to get a kill is great
* Lightning shield - glyphed for no longer needing to refresh = winnage (think this will vary alot for individual playstyle)
* mana - never a problem ching ching

Concerns though

* totems die so easily still - any decent pvp'r just kills searing constantly - massive dps loss
* Getting kited badly by some classes (mages ofc as an example) - we still suffer very badly from this
* Searing range - if they dont kill it they kite it easily due to range
* ranged dps in general are very hard to kill... and i believe even if they are nerfed - we can't get to them so were still in trouble here

Versus classes (only a coupe notes here... not a great deal of point going into it atm due to obvious inbalances)

* obviously mages are op as hell (they tend to be embarressed to duel u) - good mages just slaughter me
* rogues - everyone says they are op....update - subtlety i think the spec was.... seems pretty immense, duelling a very good rogue, i believe they silence me (garrotte?) so i cant use sham rage or get wolves out.. then i die in a matter of a few secs. managed to get himto about 4k a few times, once started kiting better... but thats a nice spec have to say. When he went mutilate was ok
* mellee - finally can beat decent warriors, DK's seem to do some insane dmg? but only experience that in bg's not duelled them so take with a pinch salt
* SP - seem crazy, but very beatable
* moonkins - not met a decent one yet, beaten the ones I have duelled
* DK's - beaten them al so far... but have to play well, they can do alot dmg
* Warriors, arms anyway - beating those that pre patchwould beat me easy
* Locks; only fought UA, and close, but very killable


anyway not alot time, just wanted to see what other enhance thought so far (FOR PVP)
Mobility and totems being kited or killed my major concerns

edits - + more i play, more i very much enjoy - reforged some items and dmg is nice indeed, 38.9k hp is sweet also

Cheers
Raggoo (eu)
http:// eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Terenas&cn=Raggoo (sorry cant post links yet)

[Yozsh]

I'm loving enhance pvp it's loads better than what it was. Not awesome but it's better.

Haven't had too many problems with people killing totems.

We have two totems to protect our others. Stone claw and grounding.

I've fought warriors in duels and BGs and they'll try to white swing searing or magma totem for a few seconds before they give up and re-target me.

Gab closing is still a problem but you have to keep your trigger finger right on windshear, grounding totem and stoneclaw. If they get 30-40 yards away I'll just ghost wolf half way to them before they start to cast.

Only caster I've had trouble with are Mookins. Their damage is too ridiculous.


I see that blizz is gonna up damage on a few classes which makes me sad because I can finally 1 vs x in Battlegrounds.

They need to buff our stoneskin totem or give us the damage reduction as well as keeping the dispell on shamanistic rage.

[keeb]

I found much the same results.

Im afraid once they buff ret/war/etc we may not have very much luck vs those classes.

I find LL in conjunction with searing to be underwhelming. vs bad opponents the attack hits big. vs most people its a 5-7k crit. Also you are forced to keep Firebrand on off hand, or LL hits for 1-3k less.

The new shamanistic rage gl;yph remove almost nothing. doesn't touch myriad of DK/Rogue/priest/lock/everybody etc debuffs. I have 5-6 debuffs on me in combat pop SHam rage it removes one... And I couldn't even tell you which one. Debatable if its worth the glyph slot.

Currently in PvP I find I spend way more time stunned than I used to, Way more time silenced, and I find current burst all around bigger than it used to be.

Hex Glyph worthless IMO, because how many MW5 procs can you spend CC'ing someone when you need heals/DPS etc. Anyhow I haven't found a use for it. I may get one off, then all other MW5 go for heals. Perhaps will be mandatory in certain arena teams.


Overall, I do like many of the changes, More damage% on strikes, Grounding totem glyph, Same HP as all other class Finally, Run speed is nice, I like using Searing quite a bit.

But honestly it feels more like bug fixes and rebalancing than an immanent expansion. The only true change to our gameplay is the searing/LL synergy. Once Xpack goes live we will be forced to selfbuff every 15 seconds via Unleash elements. You still must spam purge vs healers etc. Game p[lay hasn't REALLY changed. I feel robbed.

[raggoo]

Hey

Not many replies... not many enhance pvp'rs....
Keeb - i have wf main and frost offhand, not even tried FT - and I average... guessing tbh, but well over 2k, prob more, get crits 10-15k regularly

I have changed the way i use hex now its 15sec with glyph going for early hex, get them use trinket... then have plenty time for heals once wolves worn off...
Heals are much better now - what i wold recommend is healing yourself more, we have time between rotations to do this, use it for quick heals.
Not sure how this will all pan out when blizz fixes stuff and then levelling, but ive been enhance since vanilla - and this imo is the best state we have been in .... but hey were 80, not 85 - but i believe the beta testers have done a good job trying to ensure we do ok as level so fingers crossed

Love to hear others experiences
cheers
raggoo

"hex 30 yards" DDDDD
That is a really great buff, will seriously make a big difference for arena and rated bg's... duels etc
WF change im not sure about yet

Come on enhance PVP - ive searched all the forums and cannot find anything!!!! are we a dead spec!!! surely some of us are still out here and wish to talk about it?

1)Keen to hear what builds people are running with - ive gone for: http://wowtal.com/#k=pwkVjaY.a67.shaman.RJ2ui_
2)How they have regemmed - removed haste, ap - replaced with +10 agility/+10agility or +20agility
3)What reforging they have done also - all wrathful pieces, including weapons reforged crit to mastery + swapped from helumi to wshispering and reforged this

---------- Post added 2010-10-15 at 07:22 AM ----------

Keeb - I had a look at the recount and LL with Frostbrand on offhand WF main - in full wrathful, 264 weapons:

max - 15.6k (crit)
Average - 6k

And once again HEX 30 yards - so damned pleased with this... will really make a huge difference....

[aetti morkna]

Just something I wanted to chime in about that no one mentioned.

I think the glyph of Shamanistic Rage is incredibly under-appreciated. It removes all MAGIC debuffs that can be removed by any normal cleanse effect. That's basically any spell debuff you have on yourself that has a blue outline on it. That means if an affliction warlock gets a round of debuffs up on you one press of your SR macro will remove all the dots, and you can decurse yourself (WARNING: it DOES trigger the unstable affliction debuff of shadow damage plus 3 second silence) Grounding totem on cooldown and ele shaman about to hit you with a lava burst? Pop it to remove the flame shock on yourself.

Perhaps most under-appreciated uses are against CC. If a paladin hits you with a 6 second hammer of justice, since SR is usable while stunned, you can pop it and remove the stun. Fighting a frost mage and you get frozen? Pop it to remove the freeze effect, OR freeze AND deep freeze stun effect.

I find it to be one of the two most under-rated glyphs, right up there with lightning shield.

[Nopi]

I've been using http://wowtal.com/#k=-buALkK.a67.shaman.RJ2ui_
as I said in the other pvp enhan thread, I've been playing defensively, and letting my very powerful heals, and hard hitting Lightning SHield help me out last my target (this also lets me get to 5 stacks of searing without to much presure)

[keeb]

I'll keep that in mind.

Shamrage for HOJ/Deepfreeze... that's a good use, My gripe with this apparently awesome Glyph is that when I do use it it generally removed far less than half the debuffs on me. This makes it hard to use tactically, with exception to HOJ/Deepfreeze... this alone may be worth it.

I am finally beginning to like the Hex Glyph, been forcing myself to use it more. Is pretty nice.

Don't tell me you use lightning shield Glyph for PvP. tell me its under-appreciated in PvE or something.

I have been using Frostbrand/Firetongue in PvP. It seems to be working at least as good as WF/FT. Drop the WF glyph add the stormstrike glyph. It seems pretty solid from my limited testing in PvP.

[Nopi]

I certainly do use the lightning shield glyph in pvp! Its ammmaaazzziiinnngggg.
I liked FB/FT, but the amount of MW stacks I got dropped a ton, so I went back to WF/FB

[Therm]

Lava Lash

Inc nerf, Enh is so fun in pvp again, wont last long

[Zarghol]

If it keeps up this way, I might go back to my shammy really. Enhancement is one of the coolest, most active-playstyle specs out there, and I've wanted to learn it, but it never seemed as I'd perform well even at a high skill level, and beastcleave looked about as fun as poking stuff. Running around like a madman busting out stormstrikes, placing down totems, rooting and running, healing and all that on the other hand... It just might make me switch from warrior.

[aetti morkna]

Enhancement is amazing now.

The only thing is you have to be willing to experiment. I've found the style I'm loving, and I'm absolutely dominating bgs now. Nearly 37k unbuffed hp, 46% crit, 38% mastery.

And yes, I was referring to the lightning shield glyph. Do you have any idea how easy it is to kill rogues when they stab you a billion times and hurt themselves for 1000-1500 each time? This doubles when you use static shock in pvp; adding another 1000-1500 onto your stormstrike and lava lash is pretty f---ing awesome. People wouldn't ever think it, but I tried it in pvp and I'll never take it away again. You HAVE to use glyph of lightning shield for that to work, though.

I'm using Windfury/Flametongue. Not having the Frostbrand slowing effect hurts a little, but I just either frost shock or drop a tremor if im fighting something that doesn't fear. The extra fire damage/spell power from FT plus giving lava lash an incredible umph helps.

Another thing I've done to help finish people off is use glyph of shocking. It reduces the GCD on earth shock to .5 seconds, so I'll windfury, then earthshock and within the same second use lava lash to deal a general 10-15k damage instantly. Good way to burst healers down after you've purged their helpful effects or simply to help get a killing blow.

Frankly, I'm having more fun now than I ever have in pvp, and I've played a lot of different classes. I did about 3 hours of pvp last night, and was getting 15 to 20 killing blows in almost every bg. I never died more than two times in any of them, either.

EDIT: I'm thinking about trying mongoose in pvp, also.

[Yozsh]

I also use Windfury / Flametongue.

That will probably change once we hit 81-85 because we'll have unleash elements to fill our rotation.

I just frost shock plus we have a passive +15% speed increase and ghostwolf.

[Nopi]

I've been rocking double Mongoose and its working nicely. Doesn't seem like much, but you can notice a little more survivability against hunters and warriors since you don't have that armor reduction from 'zerking

[Walktheline]

I've been rocking double Mongoose and its working nicely. Doesn't seem like much, but you can notice a little more survivability against hunters and warriors since you don't have that armor reduction from 'zerking

I would try Mongoose/blackmagic or Mong/Mong, dont know yet. But generally speaking we are doing very good right now. I've been doing around 80 duells since 4.0.1 and I only lost 2 of them. One I lost to a Arcane Mage, but that was more or less my fault, the other one was a Gladiator MS warrior. But there I still one the 2nd duell.

[Nopi]

I was going to get blackmagic on my offhand, then I decided to just do double mongoose, because it looks so badass!

[raggoo]

hows the double mongoose working out?
Are there any stats out comparing these enhants that I have missed?

[Deleted]

hows the double mongoose working out?
Are there any stats out comparing these enhants that I have missed?

120 agi + 30 haste vs 400 AP (and armor reduction)
Dodge + crit + 240+XX on buffs AP in PVP is huuuuuuuge.

Black magic is out the fight imo, changes to haste plus we aren't as much purgebots as before, make it pretty much useless compared to mongoose (id say)

[Xanity]

Need a confirmation on this for myself, about to get the two 264ilvl PvP axes and Im unsure what enchants to get.
Guide says Berz on MH and Titan on OH... but that guides old

[Segasik]

Ekhm just wondering you are talking about PvP on 80 lvl or 85 ? Cause on beta it's HUGEEEEE different, not to mention that current PvP state is pretty... like.. who cares.. nothing is balanced.. on 85 Demo Locks are owning everyone anyway :>
And Lava Lash hits barely even with 5 stacks of Searing Totem
Not to mention that Malestorm Weapons stacks extremly slow even with 4 piece bonus
Those all changes should be done at Wrath, Not Cata we are still fall behind other classes...

[Xanity]

What owns on beta will probably suck on live
as for my above post, ive gone for double mongoose