The Cat Guide - 4.3

[tangedyn]

You can't clip TF'ed rip with non TF'ed rip, game engine won't let you do it. You should clip Rake with 3s remaining, the next tick will still be TF buffed.
First page does mentions you should clip non-TF'ed rake with TF'ed rake if less than 9s remaining
Clipping non-TF'ed rip with TF'ed rip is at best DPS neutral, that's why the first page never mentions it - you shouldn't do it

[Braindwen]

You can't clip TF'ed rip with non TF'ed rip, game engine won't let you do it.

Only applies to Agi (well, AP) gains. Just tried it, and I could clip a tf'd rip with a non-tf'd, and a Matrix buffed (mastery) rip with a non-matrix buffed rip.
Only one that returned a "more powerful spell is already active" was Kiril proc buffed rip.

However, if you macro synapse springs or an agi trinket into TF, then it'll cause that issue when the agi buff affects rip.

Note also that clipping a TF'd rake at 3s meant the next tick wasn't buffed by TF, it dropped down to a normal tick immediately.
All done smacking training dummies in org.

[SmokeyIllidan]

How much crit do we really want for Heroic Spine without having to sacrifice large amounts of haste? I realize crit is the better stat on this due to the short time and needing the most damage possible, but I also realize that I can't simply neglect my haste or I won't be able to dish out the same amount of abilities. So what's a happy medium to shoot for?

I'm doing hit to 961, and then I put haste/crit at equal value with mastery and expertise basically abysmal. I figure minimum 2k haste rating to keep myself from running low on energy. With this I can get about 1900 crit rating, give or take a few. Sound about right? Should I push for more crit like 2200 crit and 1800 haste? First time I'm going to try the fight tonight.

Edit: A quick calculate in reforge lite puts me at: 961 hit, 2271 crit, 1911 haste, 636 mastery. Seems good but I don't want to go overboard on crit or under budget myself on haste.

I forgot to add. Heroic Vial or Normal Wrath, which do I swap out for Kiroptyric Sigil? I would think Wrath cause of item level, but that's a loss of some 300 passive AGI.

[Sorcereria]

Pardon, tendom can't dodge/parry? Christ ... Gotta step up.

As for trinket, wrath. Vial might aswell not proc at all.

Stat priority it is a damn tough call. You need to consider when your guild BL, when you should pot, are you gonna have berserk during BL or not, do you have access to troll racial, do you plan 2-2-2 or different etc.

I am actually trying to figure out best CD usage as troll so I do not get energy starved every 2nd burn outside of berserk. With my crap gear <395 I am avg ~2.4mln per tendom with 1.4mln/1mln split.

RNG crap and sometimes I just cant pull charge pre burn to ravage even if I try to charge 0.5sec left on timer = energy starved without zerk.
TIP: for those chargin on nuclear blast to get 4pt13, try to stay max range to avoid death. Longer travel time = safer.

For me it looks like assuming 2-2-2 or 2-2-3

Berserk + Sigil
Racial + Sigil
Berserk + Sigil + Pot?
Racial + Sigil
Berserk + Sigil
Racial + BL

[nijuu]

Doesn't really matter when youre using everything. 2.3-2.5mil damage per tendon is more then enough. I was at 5.3mil when we killed it and i was tanking amalgamations and like 30 bloods after the 2nd one.

Can't speak for 25mans but you should wait for the on-use trinkets every time you're opening one tendon if youre struggling with damage. had like 10 seconds cooldown on our trinkets every time we opened it. Just wait until your rogues and mages realize how to smash their buttons correctly, took us like 70 trys to down that one.

[nxzt]

Pardon, tendom can't dodge/parry? Christ ... Gotta step up.

As for trinket, wrath. Vial might aswell not proc at all.

Stat priority it is a damn tough call. You need to consider when your guild BL, when you should pot, are you gonna have berserk during BL or not, do you have access to troll racial, do you plan 2-2-2 or different etc.

I am actually trying to figure out best CD usage as troll so I do not get energy starved every 2nd burn outside of berserk. With my crap gear <395 I am avg ~2.4mln per tendom with 1.4mln/1mln split.

RNG crap and sometimes I just cant pull charge pre burn to ravage even if I try to charge 0.5sec left on timer = energy starved without zerk.
TIP: for those chargin on nuclear blast to get 4pt13, try to stay max range to avoid death. Longer travel time = safer.

For me it looks like assuming 2-2-2 or 2-2-3

Berserk + Sigil
Racial + Sigil
Berserk + Sigil + Pot?
Racial + Sigil
Berserk + Sigil
Racial + BL

The chance of Vial not proccing within the time the tendon is up, is very very low unless you set off the ICD right before the tendon spawned. An ICD tracking addon is great for this fight. I'd personally swap out Wrath, as the Vial will count for around 10% of your tendon damage.

[Deleted]

I went with Vial and Sigil for Spine, personally. When all that matters is a ~20sec burst window, Wrath looks a lot less appealing. I also went with max crit and mastery, never saw the benefit of haste due to the way the fight works. Then again, I was tanking the amalgamations on the 3rd plate, so that factored into favoring crit and mastery over haste as well.

[Fiana]

I went with Vial and Sigil for Spine, personally. When all that matters is a ~20sec burst window, Wrath looks a lot less appealing. I also went with max crit and mastery, never saw the benefit of haste due to the way the fight works. Then again, I was tanking the amalgamations on the 3rd plate, so that factored into favoring crit and mastery over haste as well.

It you tank amalgamations you should take wrath. I guess its obvious
Wrath is theoretically slightly better. 363 agility.. its quite a lot of AP and crit.
Vial should not do 10% of your dps. It hits for 60-80k, so if its 10% of your dps it meanst that you did 700k per opening. Such low dps is absolutely unacceptable for feral druid. You should never do less than 1million dps per tendon and you should aim to 2.5k per plate.
Vial does just 3-4%(6-7% if crit) of your dps per opening. This number is really close to the number you will get from wrath, but wrath gives you some defensive stats as well, so you should use it if you are tanking.

[Deleted]

The amalgamation damage on me was never an issue, hence I didn't need Wrath for defensive purposes. An amalgamation with no stacks might as well not exist, it can barely hit through an SD proc. Vial was critting for ~110k tops during Sigil uptime, but of course that's damage you can't depend upon due to rng. I did not feel like running with LFR Wrath over HC Vial in any case, now that I got the HC Wrath I might as well give it a try sometime.

The only thing I really did to accommodate for tanking the amalgamations was pick up Thick Hide and Natural Reaction, as well as the Mangle glyph to get a bit more damage on the 3rd plate amalgamations. We weren't really short on plate dps (unless we had a raid wide no crit streak), but we were regularly late on the amalgamation and bloods when it came to the 3rd plate. Looking back at it like that, I could've probably gotten away with Wrath and Vial instead of Sigil, hoho~

[Deleted]

How much crit do we really want for Heroic Spine without having to sacrifice large amounts of haste?

With 2k crit, +/- 1k4 haste, hit cap and the rest in mastery like 1800+. it was ok doing +/- 2200k per tendon. Without kiril and less exp as possible
For trinket Normal Wrath or H Vial you wont see a huge difference + Kiroptyric Sigil.
However now i am the 3rd tank for p3, optimisation (dodge) for our first kill in case ^^, doing 1500k+ per tendon with Wrath + Spine Dodge trinket

We fail for 500hp yesterday can't believe it

[Djuntas]

Honestly, cant say whats best for tendon. Did some 100-150 wipes on it now, with best 6.3 mil wipe.

But! one thing I do wanna say is that mastery will always be stabel damage on tendon, cause bleeds will run out in time, so always full effect from mastery on tendon.
If your tanking on 3rd plate as druid, mastery is again nice.

But its all about crit-rng, dont think haste is that great on tendon, sometimes you will get 3 bites 5 combos on tendon, other times it just wont happen, and you'll struggle just getting 2 bites inn. So if I had to value anything, Id say crit is best. But as you progress, and tendon damage gets better, hideous almigation needs to die faster aswell, and then haste/mastery is good.

Edit: Rotation goes as (if any wondors) Beserker on 1st, nothing on next, repeat. Pot on 2nd tendon 1st opening, and hero on 3rd 1st opening. Renember to use pot before tendon opens, and line up stampeding and savage roar everytime.And with any decent luck you'll be 1-1.5 million damage pr. tendon always.

Also, if your putting up mangle and FF in your raid heres my rotation:


FF with target macro.
Ravage (Haft to use it here, else runs out maybe).
Mangle.
Shred to 5 combo's
Tigers fury + valor trinket used.
Rip + rake.
Beserker used.
Ravage
Spame shred now and hope you'll get atleast 2 5 combo bites inn.

Start is crap if you dont build 5 combo's for fast bleeds, and as I mentioned very RNG on bites.

[ceelion]

Honestly, cant say whats best for tendon. Did some 100-150 wipes on it now, with best 6.3 mil wipe.

But! one thing I do wanna say is that mastery will always be stabel damage on tendon, cause bleeds will run out in time, so always full effect from mastery on tendon.
If your tanking on 3rd plate as druid, mastery is again nice.

But its all about crit-rng, dont think haste is that great on tendon, sometimes you will get 3 bites 5 combos on tendon, other times it just wont happen, and you'll struggle just getting 2 bites inn. So if I had to value anything, Id say crit is best. But as you progress, and tendon damage gets better, hideous almigation needs to die faster aswell, and then haste/mastery is good.

Edit: Rotation goes as (if any wondors) Beserker on 1st, nothing on next, repeat. Pot on 2nd tendon 1st opening, and hero on 3rd 1st opening. Renember to use pot before tendon opens, and line up stampeding and savage roar everytime.And with any decent luck you'll be 1-1.5 million damage pr. tendon always.

Also, if your putting up mangle and FF in your raid heres my rotation:


FF with target macro.
Ravage (Haft to use it here, else runs out maybe).
Mangle.
Shred to 5 combo's
Tigers fury + valor trinket used.
Rip + rake.
Beserker used.
Ravage
Spame shred now and hope you'll get atleast 2 5 combo bites inn.

Start is crap if you dont build 5 combo's for fast bleeds, and as I mentioned very RNG on bites.

Wouldn't you shred to 4, pop TF+Trink rake, rip? Or is there no difference?

[Williee]

I have only 10-15 hm spine attempts in so far, I am a 10 feral tank that goes cat to pew pew tendon. My damage can improve a lot. Definitely gonna take stampede for that extra ravage which should allow me to put up rip @ 15-16 left on the tendon versus 13-14 seconds. I was told getting in ferocious bite over trying to put up rip will get more dps, but i find that hard to believe if your whole rip gets to tick. I haven't gotten the attempts to try rip vs fb only.
About trinket usage, I use sigil and 403 unwrathing because I only got 384 vials which seems worst.
Do you guys think as a tank for the algamation, I should reforge crit > haste > mastery or crit >mastery > haste? I think either way Ima go for 7-8% hit and possibly soft exp cap.

[tangedyn]

You want to cap hit, then go crit > mastery > haste > exp
Exp doesn't do anything since the tendon can't dodge or parry.

[crabmousse]

I'm not nearly far enough into HC DS to think about Spine but a Crit reforge seems risky for me. Mastery and Haste will provide a flat, predictable bonus to damage, whereas crit is RNG based. no matter what crit chance you have, you still run the risk of not critting at all, you could also get lucky and crit every time without any crit reforge. while of course neither of these scenarios are likely to ever happen, reforging for crit still won't provide you the exact extra %dmg boost it implies, given the small window you have to DPS the tendons.

[Deleted]

I'm not nearly far enough into HC DS to think about Spine but a Crit reforge seems risky for me. Mastery and Haste will provide a flat, predictable bonus to damage, whereas crit is RNG based. no matter what crit chance you have, you still run the risk of not critting at all, you could also get lucky and crit every time without any crit reforge. while of course neither of these scenarios are likely to ever happen, reforging for crit still won't provide you the exact extra %dmg boost it implies, given the small window you have to DPS the tendons.

You are mistaken, proven a few pages before.

[Deleted]

shred without bleed?

Edit: hmm that was to the fff > mangle > shred to 5cp ...

[Williee]

As an Alagamation tank, in 10m, do you think its worth swapping mangle glyph for savage roar (mangle, rip, berserk)? Granted 5% melee isn't much for the tendon but 10% for 1 mangle isn't much.

[Deleted]

Doing 1st HC boss on wednesday, Morchok, was wondering if anyone had any tips for me going into this. I think its established ill be a soaker, so will i be switching between bear n cat or jus rotating CDs barskin, SI?

[tangedyn]

Doing 1st HC boss on wednesday, Morchok, was wondering if anyone had any tips for me going into this. I think its established ill be a soaker, so will i be switching between bear n cat or jus rotating CDs barskin, SI?

Well with the 5% nerf coming, you should be able to survive it while in cat form. Ideally you want to have 3/3 Thick Hide and 2/2 Nurturing Instinct, but depending on your gear you may be able to survive with that. You will not have all your CDs available for every single Stomp. You will need to save your CDs for the enraged Stomp which have a good chance of one-shotting you.