[Priest] State of Discipline 4.0.1

[rohendar]

I don't know much about Beta or 85 Healing game. From what I've heard, and the experience I've had so far, I kinda see Disc going down at 85 yes. The setup still works right now in ICC, but the lack of versatility ecnam refered to, I see that hurting us a lot at 85.

Then again, there's a power in being a priest.

Mages, warlocks, hunters, rogues, etc have multiple DPS specs. You will always have 1 that has the edge at one point or another in PVE raiding, and you will see the entire world respeccing to it to max their DPS. I see priest as the same deal. Between Disc and Holy there will always be 1 or the other that has the advantage. Even if it is only on a fight per fight basis.

I'm rerolling to my priest after having raided with Resto sham in Vanilla + TBC, Resto druid + Holy pally in WOTLK. In part this is because priests have 2 healing specs. I'll be dual speccing Disc/Holy, and I have no problem keeping different sets for both specs. I don't expect Blizzard to make Disc equal to Holy on each and every fight, and I'll just adjust. Power of the priest.

That doesn't mean I think Disc Priest being 40% worse than other healers is okay. :P


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Pyra: how many healers you roll with for LK HC?

[Repo123]

But more then likely they will be. Also, if you are not smart enough to know when you should NOT be doing it, then you are not smart enough to be raiding end game content.

Explain to me the logic of blizz not wanting you to shield spam, but they're okay with spamming smite.

As far as being smart enough to know when to use it or not, things happen and people (other than the tank) will do things that will affect who the smite heal goes to. Say what you want, but just because atonement may provide larger heals than a heal isn't providing the complete picture. Atonement is also unpredictable.

Most people are basing their assumptions on wrath heroics, etc etc. Heroics in cata are supposed to be more "heroic". More than likely you will not have time to be smiting, or your smiting will be very limited.

If someone assumes 60 to 80% of their healing will come from smiting in cata, perhaps they're the ones not smart enough to be raiding end game content.

[Deleted]

If someone assumes 60 to 80% of their healing will come from smiting in cata, perhaps they're the ones not smart enough to be raiding end game content.

And thats the problem smite is a good way to heal for disc right now but in cata it doesnt work anymore, but since disc is build around smite and archangel the whole tree is lacking big time.

I know you dont need to use smite spec but without smite disc is simply unplayable at 85, the absorbs a way to low and i mean WAY to low like 50% to low.
The heals are WAY to low and the mana cost for the way to weak absorbs AND heals are WAY to high.

Atm at 85 disc cant compete with any other healer, and thats not by a small amount we talking about 50% LESS throughput compared to the other classes in addition to the most complex and complicated healing mechanic AND biggest mana costs.

They need to change disc mechanic or numbers by a huge amount and they need to do it fast..........

[Deleted]

Pyra: how many healers you roll with for LK HC?

3 healers: resto shaman and a holy pala (which is struggling alot with her mana aswell for some reason)

editted this to my OP

[rohendar]

Maybe your other healers need to pick up some slack then. We are currently running Resto Sham / Resto Druid / Disc Priest and basically the only thing I need to do as Disc is shield for infest and keep Pain Suppression at the rdy when asked for. Between the sham and the druid they have tank healing + raid covered.

I have time to smite and get my mana back up every time pretty much between infests. I ofc do more healing than just infest, but just saying that I do have the time.

For you, it seems you are stressed for a free GCD, because you are trying to compensate for them. I would have understood if you had said 2 healers, but with 3 you shouldn't be compensating for them. They should do their job so you can do infests.

[Deleted]

Are you talking about 5 man heroics or are you using Atonement in 25 mans? I absolutely love Atonement for 5-mans.

My rough percentages came from a 5-man dungeon, stopped raiding more or less for this expansion, I did join a 25man this week, but had to go as shadow.

I'm going to have a look at your video later today, because these college servers cant handle them. ^^

[Deleted]

Maybe your other healers need to pick up some slack then. We are currently running Resto Sham / Resto Druid / Disc Priest and basically the only thing I need to do as Disc is shield for infest and keep Pain Suppression at the rdy when asked for. Between the sham and the druid they have tank healing + raid covered.

I have time to smite and get my mana back up every time pretty much between infests. I ofc do more healing than just infest, but just saying that I do have the time.

For you, it seems you are stressed for a free GCD, because you are trying to compensate for them. I would have understood if you had said 2 healers, but with 3 you shouldn't be compensating for them. They should do their job so you can do infests.

I'm not sure, if i raid tonight (which might not be happening cuz of irl) i'll try (if i dont forget xD) log the combatlog. I know the pala is doing only like 3k hps and me and the shaman is doing around 5-6.

Who's tankhealing and raid healing? or r they kinda doin it both

[Callypso]

All the numbers thrown in different directions kind of confused me.

I hear multiple people saying that disc is rather OP atm and outhealing even resto druids and the like (talking level 80, 25m raids here.) Is this in atonement, direct heal or bubble boy spec/role?

I haven't really tried disc myself yet after the patch, but we had one of our shadowpriests assist in healing by means of his atonement spec, and quite frankly, it sucked like hell: Mediocre damage and (random) mediocre healing. So was that him doing something wrong or simply the state of the spec?

[Worshaka]

The only thing I'm getting from this thread is that everyone's a bit confused where disc is at atm. Some people think it's fine and rather powerful and others think it's poor.

I think it might be a fair statement to say that those finding it poor have most likely not adjusted their style to suit the changes just yet. So there is probably some improvement to come from those people. I'm MS shadow and used to have Holy as my OS and figured i'd change it to disc based on the fact our guild never had a disc priest and that shadow/disc gear is a closer match than shadow/holy gear. In testing Disc I haven't felt like the spec was poor but I haven't been able to really test on some content i'd consider challenging just yet.

It seems most people like the archangel spec... personally I find this need to smite a boss simply annoying and thus haven't taken that spec. I also find it strange that people feel it's necessary for mana management because casting smite 5 times costs mana (even though it's at a reduced cost). I'm also not sure the atonement heal is that great in a raid setting. I also feel that build is rather resource intensive, archangel requires 3 talent points, attonement is 2 talent points and you almost certainly require the glpyh of divine accuracy. I'm not sure the benefits are there for that type of cost investment.

I'll probably have a play with it soon and make a bit more of an informed decision but on paper I really think evangalism needs a rethink, i'd rather see stacks built from a healing spell over a DPS spell.

[babylon]

All the numbers thrown in different directions kind of confused me.

I hear multiple people saying that disc is rather OP atm and outhealing even resto druids and the like (talking level 80, 25m raids here.) Is this in atonement, direct heal or bubble boy spec/role?

healing atm doesnt really seem like just smiting or just shielding or just direct healing, there should be no bubble boys at all atm
its a mix of many spells and adjusting to the situation, ie stacking for archangel just before pungent or just before queen goes for a flight. shielding for infest is still very viable. if the ranged group takes damage and melle are topped, u dont smite, u heal ranged. if there is a lot of dmg going on on raid and healers cant catch up, u shield, u always have pom running, renew on ppl constantly taking dmg, occasional poh or even hn when on the run. plus a lot of flash heals and penance every cd. or you do it differently, adjusting to your playstyle, but still not spamming 1 button for the whole fight.

with 271++ gear we outgear content by a lot, so all above is simple and possible and discipline priests can provide amazing healing output to raids.

at lvl 85, in 5man dungeon gear and at least half of mentioned tools beyond our reach or highly limited, we will simply fail, fade to holy or reroll.

[harky]

It seems most people like the archangel spec... personally I find this need to smite a boss simply annoying and thus haven't taken that spec. I also find it strange that people feel it's necessary for mana management because casting smite 5 times costs mana (even though it's at a reduced cost). I'm also not sure the atonement heal is that great in a raid setting. I also feel that build is rather resource intensive, archangel requires 3 talent points, attonement is 2 talent points and you almost certainly require the glpyh of divine accuracy. I'm not sure the benefits are there for that type of cost investment.

I'm not sure I agree with that cost assessment. If you don't have Atonement it is a bit crazy, but if you do then the healing from Smite will outdo normal PW:S, or Flash Heal filler if done when melee are on the boss. Divine Accuracy might seem like a cost as well, but what would you take in its place? Certainly nothing to greatly impact your play. The main gripe against Archangel is the mana requirements. At 80 it isn't too bad though. Smite costs what 450? So you only need 15k mana for it to break even. With 30k mana you return twice your investment in mana. More if you consider the cost reductions. It's at 85 that the mana cost comes into serious question. That is unless we start hitting 200k+ mana where we'd get similar returns to 80.

The issue with the spec is if you're also a viable shield-spammer at 80, which you should still be capable of doing. With how easy content is and how many fights in ICC allow you to just clump up under a boss it doesn't surprise me that people are going Atonement + Shield Bot + Holy Nova spammer. 6k mana back every 30 seconds helps a lot more when you don't have Grace as consistently.

[rohendar]

@pyra: The 5-6k HPS you are talking about, is that normal healing? Because I run "Guessed healing and absorbs" on Recount. I do about 13k HPS on LK, with our resto druid doing about 8-9k and our resto sham doing 7-8k. In any case my healers seem to put out a lot more healing than yours. 3k HPS as a pally is really bad. No wonder you are having to compensate.

@everyone else: I'm just not seeing what you guys are talking about. I have absolutely no problem with mana, and my priest is undergeared. Maybe it's fact that we kill bosses really fast (our dps is overgeared) but I just play bubble boy on everything and honestly Disc is OP atm if you go full bubble spam. Atonement is cool for 5mans to keep yourself from boredom. But seriously, it's not a viable healing alternative for raids :/

[Deleted]

I... dont know actually.. my gm said that. i wanted to check it myself but i allrdy logged out so the meters reset. but i guess its only healing done then. but i'll try to get Worldoflogs up for tonight

[Deleted]

@pyra: The 5-6k HPS you are talking about, is that normal healing? Because I run "Guessed healing and absorbs" on Recount. I do about 13k HPS on LK, with our resto druid doing about 8-9k and our resto sham doing 7-8k. In any case my healers seem to put out a lot more healing than yours. 3k HPS as a pally is really bad. No wonder you are having to compensate.

@everyone else: I'm just not seeing what you guys are talking about. I have absolutely no problem with mana, and my priest is undergeared. Maybe it's fact that we kill bosses really fast (our dps is overgeared) but I just play bubble boy on everything and honestly Disc is OP atm if you go full bubble spam. Atonement is cool for 5mans to keep yourself from boredom. But seriously, it's not a viable healing alternative for raids :/

As said beforedisc is ok at 80 , but is pretty unplayable at 85 ..............
In ICC you get a 30% buff outside ICC even with high mastery rating and more SP PW:S is almost completely useless for anything than mana return via Rapture.

[Aliahna]

I would agree. Disc looks very broken at 85. I found the videos of the Beta raid testing quite interesting. They buffed paladins so much they totally dominated single target and raid AoE healing. It sounds like some very well deserved nerfs are coming to straighten that out, but I guess what was very discouraging was the lack of a good showing from priests. Most groups didn't appear to even have a disc priest and if they did, it seemed they were strictly tank healing.

I'm curious what others think after seeing the videos.

[Deleted]

well, ive only just started levelling a disc healer ( level 23 ) but so far it seems pretty good, although to be effective im probably going to switch at a higher levels, from what ive heard from friends dicipline healing is nothing compared to holy

[Apostolic]

From the WoL from Elitist Jerks on 10man lvl 85 raid content, it seem like Disc is pulling ahead on Holy, due to PW:S again. Although its no 90% PW:S though... more like 50-60%

[Deleted]

This is my WoL for tonight's raid on LK10 hc. started crappy but the last attempts were pretty good.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/df781kj1m5rdwe3v/

[rohendar]

Wol for our kill last night. Quite messy kill.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/420dq0os8ngw1mi8/

[Surea]

As said beforedisc is ok at 80 , but is pretty unplayable at 85 ..............
In ICC you get a 30% buff outside ICC even with high mastery rating and more SP PW:S is almost completely useless for anything than mana return via Rapture.

I'm on the beta and don't find disc to be unplayable at all. You just have to rework your playing style thats all.