So how does holy get mana?

[Maxpowr]

Noted. Though, my napkins suggest that anyways.

Given that Blizz doesn't seem fond of rejuv spam, I wouldn't be surprised to see revitalize change. Perhaps lifebloom will keep the 24% proc, and rejuv's chance will be lowered to make it less sustainable. Though, considering the numbers I just rambled off, the proc would have to be pretty low to make mana a concern for a rejuv spammer.

If they dump it down to SoL levels (3/6/10%), they would be much more in line with holy (I doubt blizz would buff SoL instead). Revitalize is a talent that actually encourages spamming rejuv. Again blizz fail. However, this is a priest forum .

I'll keep saying this over and over, I love the veiled shadows talent. Even though it's only a 1 min CD reduction (still 2 in 4.0.1), considering the HBQL parse someone did, the holy priest could have squeezed out two fiends in that fight and that would have been more than adequate mana regen for that fight. If you can't learn to manage your CDs properly, it's the players fault, not the class.

[Deleted]

If they dump it down to SoL levels (3/6/10%), they would be much more in line with holy (I doubt blizz would buff SoL instead). Revitalize is a talent that actually encourages spamming rejuv. Again blizz fail. However, this is a priest forum .

I'll keep saying this over and over, I love the veiled shadows talent. The 3 minute fiend CD is just too good to pass up. Considering the HBQL parse someone did, the holy priest could have squeezed out two fiends in that fight and that would have been more than adequate mana regen for that fight. If you can't learn to manage your CDs properly, it's the players fault, not the class.

.....
Shadowfiend barely resotres 1/3 of your mana and has a 4 min with Velied Shadows.

[Zetsumei]

My brother plays a Holy Priest in PvE. He just chakra's into AoE healing and spams heals or something. As a result he keeps everyone up on his own in ICC10 and he tops the healing charts if there are two healers. But he never goes OOM. So you must be something wrong, OP.

[Deleted]

My brother plays a Holy Priest in PvE. He just chakra's into AoE healing and spams heals or something. As a result he keeps everyone up on his own in ICC10 and he tops the healing charts if there are two healers. But he never goes OOM. So you must be something wrong, OP.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1425&e=1675

10k HPS less then druid.

Your brother must be in God mode or that healer must suck hard.

[harky]

Yeah man, there's totally no way a Holy Priest can possibly contend with that.

I mean, while we're pulling random logs out of our ass. Why use that one instead of this one: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e=5135#Healana

Because it ruins your little delusional world where Holy is only capable of ~14k HPS? Hell, why not use this one: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=7347#Floríel

Check it out, Holy can't even do 1/3rd of the healing of Druids!

Dumb.

[Deleted]

Yeah man, there's totally no way a Holy Priest can possibly contend with that.

I mean, while we're pulling random logs out of our ass. Why use that one instead of this one: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e=5135#Healana

Because it ruins your little delusional world where Holy is only capable of ~14k HPS? Hell, why not use this one: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=7347#Floríel

Check it out, Holy can't even do 1/3rd of the healing of Druids!

Dumb.

Yes you are right. I'm dumb cause I'm actually wasting my time reading your bullshit.

[Heaterz 88]

its called wait for cata and pop archangel

[Kelesti]

its called wait for cata and pop archangel

Which spending 11-12 seconds casting a zero output healing spell, to "break even" on mana isn't particularily worth it. For Holy, Archangel isn't worth the three talent points and the glyph slot.

[harky]

Yes you are right. I'm dumb cause I'm actually wasting my time reading your bullshit.

No, dumb because you have a preconceived notion about the spec which is completely detached from reality. You don't understand regen talents. You don't understand 80-85 gear scaling. You ignore logs showing that Holy is not only competitive with other healers, but actually very strong at 80. That's why I said 'dumb'.

Also, Physicx, Archangel as Holy is a net loss of mana until you can break 100k mana. While that may be possible before too long, that 100k mana is only to break even. You would need over 200k mana for Archangel to restore as much mana as it does currently at 80 for Discipline and you'd need somewhere around 160k mana for it to return as much mana as Veiled Shadows. Additionally it wastes 7-10 seconds of healing time per use. Archangel is not the answer. It's actually a very poor talent choice for raiding as Holy, even at 85.

[rabbimojo]

Well, this thread got useless in a hurry.

Reminder: You never win arguments on the internet. The only loser is the conversation quality. Keep your tone in check.

[harky]

Reminder: Winning is not the purpose of proper argumentation. The winners are those who extract knowledge from the dialogue.

Just sayin'.

[bigjenk]

You didn't go oom because you barely used renew, were talking about this one spell that makes us go low on mana, i run oom but i have shadowfiend,hymn, and im a alchy so i got the pots too.

Point is i can spam chakra poh but it doesn't heal for as much as renew can, and the druid in the log is on 22k hps i've never seen anyone go above 12k on hc bql before so thats a huge difference imo.

Will see how my raid goes tonight :P

Really? Druids were able to hit 18k or so the second they got their 4 peice on that fight if you are not overhealing it. Them getting crit on rejuv and wg is what puts them over the top like that.

[rabbimojo]

Reminder: Winning is not the purpose of proper argumentation. The winners are those who extract knowledge from the dialogue.

Just sayin'.

Fair enough, but I don't see a lot of knowledge to extract in the ping-pong of the top half of this page. ;P
I think there would be a lot more knowledge all around if there weren't so much bickering.

[harky]

Trolls will be trolls. That's about all.

As far as the top half of the page, for my part, the intention was merely to show an accurate picture of Holy's regen. People are trying to compare cooldowns and such, but as Kelesti mentioned, most are analyzing it without computing spirit regen. It's similar to not including base mana into longevity models. It might seems insignificant to have 2-3000 more mana to start a fight, but when compared as regen it starts to seem much more significant. 3,000 mana seems small, but it's the equivalent of 83 MP5 in a 3 minute fight. If people are discussing mana regen and ignoring extremely large sources of mana, like Spirit, it's just not going to make sense.

[Maxpowr]

.....
Shadowfiend barely resotres 1/3 of your mana and has a 4 min with Velied Shadows.

Yeah I edited myself because live and beta have different fiend CDs atm. before u got in ur post >.<

[Kacie]

Really? Druids were able to hit 18k or so the second they got their 4 peice on that fight if you are not overhealing it. Them getting crit on rejuv and wg is what puts them over the top like that.

Not in my guild, holy priests was always top with 10k + hps before patch, now druids are doing 22k hps.

Did ulduar last night, to compare mana gained. druid gained 470k mana back for 3 bosses and holy priest gained 127k.

Some say logs don't show holy cons i'm not too sure but i wasen't getting much back but didn't run oom because it was ulduar.

[Rurikar]

Spec Discipline (ridiculous OP right now) and leave the raid healing to the Druids and Shaman.
Honestly, though, all healers now get regen from Spirit. If you are going oom then you are either wasting your heals or you need more spirit. Or possibly add another healer in your group.

Spec Disc Priest... and let other healers raid heal. Amazing how nobody can play there class right in such an easy game. You opted to play the WORST tank healing spec in the game and ignore the BEST raid healing spec all in the same post. You trollin?

[Aroll]

You didn't go oom because you barely used renew, were talking about this one spell that makes us go low on mana, i run oom but i have shadowfiend,hymn, and im a alchy so i got the pots too.

Point is i can spam chakra poh but it doesn't heal for as much as renew can, and the druid in the log is on 22k hps i've never seen anyone go above 12k on hc bql before so thats a huge difference imo.

Will see how my raid goes tonight :P

Never seen anyone above 12k on H BQL? I feel for you then, you play with horrible druids. Pre patch, hitting 14 to 16k was a norm for resto druids in that fight. Using the old renew renew pom, renew renew coh cycle would get me about 10-11k HPS. After patch, using PoH spam for the hell of it got me to 13k hps, which while small, is still a bump up from the old rotation. It's by far the highest I have gotten my holy priest too since ICC came out - save the one time we did it with no druid - as naturally I had to do more healing to compensate.

Anyways, You're right, I didn't renew spam.

Let me make this clear - you're going OOM not because the class is broken and doesn't have the regen of the other classes, you're going oom because your spamming to get high numbers that are unnecessary. I in no way needed to sustain 13k hps to down H BQL. I was just seeing how high I could get - in reality the 4 healers could all sit steady at 8k hps and down the boss easily.

[Wyzguy]

To people who say Hymn of Hope + Shadowfiend gives u full mana are retarded, more like 25-50% of your mana. Holy priests go oom very fast (as they always have), but since PoM and Renew are now buffed with chakra, they are being cast way more than before. Chakra: Renew will last much longer than Chakra: PoM, but they will still end up giving the same amount of hps because of how much healing Holy Word: Sanctuary gives. Generally I make it through the fight ending up oom (using HoH + SF), but I am almost full BiS >.<

[Aroll]

Yeah man, there's totally no way a Holy Priest can possibly contend with that.

I mean, while we're pulling random logs out of our ass. Why use that one instead of this one: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e=5135#Healana

Because it ruins your little delusional world where Holy is only capable of ~14k HPS? Hell, why not use this one: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=7347#Floríel

Check it out, Holy can't even do 1/3rd of the healing of Druids!

Dumb.

Eh, that's not really a fair comparison. If the druid and I 2 healed the fight instead of 4 healing it, chances are I am also right up their with his numbers. His own numbers wouldn't budge much because his hots are still ticking for what they do, where as my PoH wouldn't be overhealing nearly as much, and as such, my numbers would rise significantly. My 4 healer situation is still much more common practice (hell usually 5 healer) today for many guilds. Yes, it can be two healed rather easily, been there... done that. The log I posted was more relevant to the debate because it deals witha situation in which you have closer the normal number of healers, showing holy's effect decreased due to the # of healers, and shwoing the druid as not being effected at all, number wise.

Remember, I am on the side that thinks our class is extremely OP if played correctly, and I am not bitching about a lack of regen. Our class simply takes a hell of a lot more skill now, and people just can't handle it. If you want easy, go play a druid. If you want a fun challenge? Play a Holy Priest.

Not in my guild, holy priests was always top with 10k + hps before patch, now druids are doing 22k hps.

Did ulduar last night, to compare mana gained. druid gained 470k mana back for 3 bosses and holy priest gained 127k.

Some say logs don't show holy cons i'm not too sure but i wasen't getting much back but didn't run oom because it was ulduar.

You're druids were the worst druids then that I have heard of playing thsi game. Any druid doing under 14k hps on that fight is a complete scrub unless you stacked 8 healers. Seriously, there is no way in hell, from the day the boss came out, that a Holy {riest should ever beat a Druid on BQL, or H BQL.