Kill Shot Damage

[Organoth]

It was changed from 200% weapon damage to 150% weapon damage. The base damage was also lowered from 650 to 325, but the RAP conversion was upped from 10% to 30%. It's still a significant decrease unless you had a really outdated weapon.

Even without armor pen it's still a decent shot, and it's primary benefit will probably be that it costs 0 focus.

Pretty much this. Yes the shot was nerfed both from the changes to how it works and because of the removal of ArP. The removal of ArP affected a lot of stuff for us. If it still cost Focus to use then I would complain about the nerf, however we still get to deal two 15k+ shots twice in a row for free every 10 seconds.

[Herecius]

Part of the reason for this should be obvious - it costs zero focus. The alternative would be to buff it make it cost focus, say, as much as an arcane shot. I would be ok with this, but to be honest, I'm fine with it as it is too, because I can fire it off when I'm at zero focus. I am still completely reserving my judgment for hunter signature shots until we're wearing proper Cataclysm gear anyways.

[ASO]

Part of the reason for this should be obvious - it costs zero focus. The alternative would be to buff it make it cost focus, say, as much as an arcane shot. I would be ok with this, but to be honest, I'm fine with it as it is too, because I can fire it off when I'm at zero focus. I am still completely reserving my judgment for hunter signature shots until we're wearing proper Cataclysm gear anyways.

I'd just like to point out pally Hammer can be glyphed to be no mana (as a major glyph, of which they have little better choice). Even without, it's 10% base mana, which is nothing for how hard it hits.

And re: gear, forget what it'll look like. The numbers aren't adding up. Arcane has relatively little scaling but hits so hard because it ignores armor. Aimed and Chimera are both physical (Chimera was changed to physical, was it not?) and have only slightly better scaling.

Numbers, numbers, numbers. Everyone else's attacks either scale better or have insane multipliers from other things. Hunters just get the shots that barely scale and are told gl;hf.

[Fullblast]

Not only is our shot nerfed, your also forgetting it now takes 2 gcds to get less damage than 1 before. It just adds to our pvp nightmare we're in right now and sux for pve aswell.

[Deleted]

An excellent proof for how bad KS have gotten is from my ICC25 run today - My hunter is in mostly 277 gear with a few 264 pieces and the largest KS crit i got today was 14K and i had many times where it gave crits of 4-5K... Let me repeat that - CRITS of 4-5K !!

Now that is seriously messed up and the most annoying part is too see patch after patch without a single mention about any fixes for hunters - The by far most broken class atm.

And don't even get me started on how absolutely useless multi-shot is and how every single class in the game has a useable AOE even with the mobs close, while hunters now can fire multishot, have the mobs run to you and you end up running around like a headless chicken.And don't forget the very awesome argument Blizzard made for removing volley "It doesn't feel hunter-like"... "Excuse me! Doing a rain of arrows over a certain area like in medieval warfare isn't hunter like but firing an unlimited amount of arrows at once is?! Now go pickup a bow and tell me which one of those scenarios is most likely to be realistic..."

Every single class has an effective AOE except hunters now - All AOE's have been nerfed but they still don't have the issues that multi-shot have. And while we get our only useable AOE REMOVED others like mages, druids, locks etc have multiple useful and fairly powerful AOE spells.

[Zeta333]

And have you see a significant change in Kill Shot tooltip?

---------- Post added 2010-10-18 at 02:07 PM ----------



Well, prepatch I was able to do 1 kill shot in last 14 seconds of a fight.
Now I am able to fire four.

In another words - also look at cooldown

Then you had the wrong glyph prepatch...

[Esoth]

You are full of it. Avg crits for me were 18k or so. That's avg, not max. Avg regular was 9k. This is in full 277 gear.

[Charge me Doctor]

Just bind it to every your attack (like you did it with a silencing shot) and forget about this, jeez. Crybabies

[Herecius]

Just bind it to every your attack (like you did it with a silencing shot) and forget about this, jeez. Crybabies

It triggers the GCD. Kill Shot was only off the GCD during 3.0 and was changed in 3.1.

[Charge me Doctor]

Wow, last time i checked it, it didn't =\
then. Sucks to be you. They buffed pet utility and pet damage (example - 10k critting kill command) so, this nerf was expected.
ALSO! it costs nothing, with new focus system that's pretty neat

[Deleted]

Wow, last time i checked it, it didn't =\
then. Sucks to be you. They buffed pet utility and pet damage (example - 10k critting kill command) so, this nerf was expected.
ALSO! it costs nothing, with new focus system that's pretty neat

Pet utility = #care in 25 mans since nearly every class got even more utility than before + they consilidated buffs. So, it makes no sense at all to say "this nerf was expected".

And "nothing"? A GCD is not nothing.

[jax]

Just bind it to every your attack (like you did it with a silencing shot) and forget about this, jeez. Crybabies

Clearly you have no clue how hunters work so please refrain from trolling.

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 04:22 AM ----------

Wow, last time i checked it, it didn't =\
then. Sucks to be you. They buffed pet utility and pet damage (example - 10k critting kill command) so, this nerf was expected.
ALSO! it costs nothing, with new focus system that's pretty neat

See my above statement about your lack of knowledge when it comes to hunters and the advice I gave you.

[Deepfriedegg]

Then you had the wrong glyph prepatch...

Except for Serpent, Steady and TSA were NOT wrong glyphs pre-patch. Usefulness of Kill Shot Glyph pre-patch was not that great, certainly not as good as it is now

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 08:27 AM ----------

Chimera was changed to physical, was it not?

You really made me look it up because I never saw this change mentioned
Both wowhead and logs still list it as Nature damage so no armor mitigation here.

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 08:33 AM ----------

and i had many times where it gave crits of 4-5K... Let me repeat that - CRITS of 4-5K !!

This doesnt seem to be mathematically possible - that means it is less or the same as autoshot damage.
If you are 100% sure these were Kill Shot crits, then some of following had to happen:

1)There was some kind of damage absorption on target
2)There was some kind of damage reduction on you
3)You only saw damage without overkill

[Organoth]

Except for Serpent, Steady and TSA were NOT wrong glyphs pre-patch. Usefulness of Kill Shot Glyph pre-patch was not that great, certainly not as good as it is now

Pre-patch Kill Shot and TSA glyphs were highly debated and Glyph of TSA required high amounts of ArP. True getting ArP capped was not hard but what which glyph was better did varry depending on certain factors. That said the Kill Shot glyph is an obvious must have now for raiding. We can probably skip while lvling up in favor of something else since non-raid or dungeon mobs shouldn't be living long enough for it to matter.

For Chimera shot I'd go off what the logs are saying cause Wowhead actually doesn't say anything about it being nature damage. Just says deals weapon damage plus a % of our AP http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=chimera+shot#talents. Chimera Shot no longer instantly deals a % of your Serpent Sting damage any more, it only refreshes the DoT it's self.

[Nythiz]

Usefulness of Kill Shot Glyph pre-patch was not that great, certainly not as good as it is now

Most top hunters actually glyphed Kill Shot before.

And I'm not sure why but people are mistakenly claiming the current one is somehow WAY superior from a PvE point of view, when it isn't really.

The old one reduced the cooldown from 12 seconds to 6 seconds.
The new one makes you fire 2 KS's every 11 seconds (10 sec CD after 2nd KS), or one every 5.5 on average.

Well, prepatch I was able to do 1 kill shot in last 14 seconds of a fight.
Now I am able to fire four.

In another words - also look at cooldown

Funny you say because this doesn't make sense at all.

You're right when you say you can now fire 4. One at 0 sec + 1 sec + 11 sec + 12 sec.
You are TOTALLY WRONG when you say you could only fire 1 before.

Without glyph you could fire one at 0 sec and one at 12 sec.
WITH Glyph you can fire one at 0 sec one at 6 sec and one at 12 sec. In other words in the last 14 seconds of the fight you used to be able to fire 3 whereas now you can fire 4.
You pretty much broke down your own argument there :P

-------

Not saying this KS is bad though, there are a few things to keep in mind:
1) It scales differently now. Like most other shot its very RAP dependent, so we might see normal numbers at level 85.
2) It costs 0 focus. It's free damage, and still relatively great damage at that

The glyph is also still very good. 2 KS's in a row is simply a ton of extra free damage. And on mobs that live a bit shorter (think thougher trash) or PvP the glyph is really good.

[Tayfow]

I may have missed something somewhere, and please enlighten me.
I was under the impression that the new killshot glyph is basically the old killshot glyph, but re-jiggered for how KS works now.
Is there some benefit of firing two KS back to back (other than taking advantage of a short-term proc) rather than firing one and waiting for the cooldown on the glyph to finish?
Did I mis-read how the glyph works, or does the cooldown not trigger until the second ks has been fired?
This has been perplexing me ever since I saw people saying things about double killshot on these and official forums. I always thought "Why aren't you just waiting five seconds?"

edit: my thoughts were on bossfights of course, where 20% can last 2 minutes or more.

[Organoth]

Most top hunters actually glyphed Kill Shot before.

And I'm not sure why but people are mistakenly claiming the current one is somehow WAY superior from a PvE point of view, when it isn't really.

The old one reduced the cooldown from 12 seconds to 6 seconds.
The new one makes you fire 2 KS's every 11 seconds (10 sec CD after 2nd KS), or one every 5.5 on average.



Funny you say because this doesn't make sense at all.

You're right when you say you can now fire 4. One at 0 sec + 1 sec + 11 sec + 12 sec.
You are TOTALLY WRONG when you say you could only fire 1 before.

Without glyph you could fire one at 0 sec and one at 12 sec.
WITH Glyph you can fire one at 0 sec one at 6 sec and one at 12 sec. In other words in the last 14 seconds of the fight you used to be able to fire 3 whereas now you can fire 4.
You pretty much broke down your own argument there :P

-------

Not saying this KS is bad though, there are a few things to keep in mind:
1) It scales differently now. Like most other shot its very RAP dependent, so we might see normal numbers at level 85.
2) It costs 0 focus. It's free damage, and still relatively great damage at that

The glyph is also still very good. 2 KS's in a row is simply a ton of extra free damage. And on mobs that live a bit shorter (think thougher trash) or PvP the glyph is really good.

Actually, you got two KS in at the start before and now you can get three using the old method, at least as Marks. You sort of forgot about Readiness which should be on CD when you hit 20% for that extra Kill Shot. Now if u change that a little you can actually get in 4 KS with in the first 8 seconds (0, +1, +7, +8) by using Readiness. The CD for the extra shot with the glyph is only 6 seconds and not the full 10 seconds for the Kill Shot CD. So fire two KS then after 6 seconds hit Readiness and fire two more KS. As Marks was the clear best spec before the patch I assume that's what you are comparing.

It still doesn't come close to the damage KS was doing before and hopefully that will get fixed some what. We got hit with the double nerf of losing AP and our shots being based more off AP instead of Weapon Damage. It seems that the scaling for some of our shots is too low at 80. That could be intended since it's all "supposed" to be balanced for 85.

[Deepfriedegg]

Glyph of TSA required high amounts of ArP.

My Signature still say I had 88% ArP unbuffed which translated into 94% buffed (food, Sunder, Faerie fire). I had 90-95% crits on Aimed Shots and it was a huge contributor to my PS damage.

For Chimera shot I'd go off what the logs are saying cause Wowhead actually doesn't say anything about it being nature damage. Just says deals weapon damage plus a % of our AP http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=chimera+shot#talents

If you go to Chimera Shot detail page, you will see a Spell details chart. In that chart, second row on the right there is School: Nature

Most top hunters actually glyphed Kill Shot before.
And I'm not sure why but people are mistakenly claiming the current one is somehow WAY superior from a PvE point of view, when it isn't really.

The old one reduced the cooldown from 12 seconds to 6 seconds.
The new one makes you fire 2 KS's every 11 seconds (10 sec CD after 2nd KS), or one every 5.5 on average.

Not sure where you got your "Most top hunters actually glyphed Kill Shot before", I dont have any numbers to support or disprove this claim. But most of top hunters know that Kill shot glyph isnt much useful for example on LK or Putricide, two toughest encounters in ICC. And those top hunters were storming through boss encounters so fast that they could not even notice the benefit of the KS glyph. On the other hand TSA glyph was reliably increasing AiS and PS damage under all conditions.

Not to mention the old glyph reduced cooldown from 15 seconds to 9, and not from 12 to 6 as you posted.

Funny you say because this doesn't make sense at all.

You're right when you say you can now fire 4. One at 0 sec + 1 sec + 11 sec + 12 sec.
You are TOTALLY WRONG when you say you could only fire 1 [Kill Shot in last 14 seconds of the fight] before.

Without glyph you could fire one at 0 sec and one at 12 sec.
WITH Glyph you can fire one at 0 sec one at 6 sec and one at 12 sec. In other words in the last 14 seconds of the fight you used to be able to fire 3 whereas now you can fire 4.
You pretty much broke down your own argument there :P

See my post and you will prove yourself wrong

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 09:57 AM ----------

I may have missed something somewhere, and please enlighten me.
I was under the impression that the new killshot glyph is basically the old killshot glyph, but re-jiggered for how KS works now.
Is there some benefit of firing two KS back to back (other than taking advantage of a short-term proc) rather than firing one and waiting for the cooldown on the glyph to finish?
Did I mis-read how the glyph works, or does the cooldown not trigger until the second ks has been fired?
This has been perplexing me ever since I saw people saying things about double killshot on these and official forums. I always thought "Why aren't you just waiting five seconds?"

edit: my thoughts were on bossfights of course, where 20% can last 2 minutes or more.

Last thing first : last 20% of a bossfight 2 minutes or more? Do you know you are suggesting a boss fight that lasts over 10 minutes? The only boss in ICC with proportionally longer last 20% is Sindragosa

The new glyph has nothing to do with the old one. Old one was reducing CD by 6 seconds from 15 to 9.
New one resets CD of your KS if the target didnt die, effect has 6 seconds cooldown.

So now lets have a look at benefits of firing back to back KS:
First of all, the glyph effect is not trigerred immediatelly but after travel time. That means you cannot fire 2 KS without having to wait up to 1.3 seconds. So as "Back-to-Back" we will understand the situation where you wait that those 0.2-0.3 secs of next GCD till the glyph resets cooldown
Benefits:
1)you dont have to watch the glyph cooldown
2)you dont have to worry the target dies within those 6 seconds that you are waiting after the first kill shot
3)you can fire your 3rd kill shot 11.3 seconds after first one and 4th 12.6 after first one
In your scenario you fire 2nd KS 7 seconds after 1st one, 3rd 13 seconds after 1st one, 4th 19 seconds after 1st one. And you still have to worry about points 1) and 2)

[Malania]

738 KS crit in PVP on cloth. Beat that =P

[dubbz]

My pre-patch KS crits for 26k.

My post-patch KS crits for 17k.

17k + 17k = 34k

34k > 26k, I believe.

Hey Captain Literal, GET THE FUCK OUT.

Also, basically, the hunter's a semi-broken class for now. From what I've seen on beta-raid footage, on the scaling to 85, the hunter's regain their OP-ness (O-Penis lolol sorry) and will once again be topping DPS charts.