Ret DPS in it's current state.

[Requital]

So now that we have had a few buffs to bring us back up to where we were, How does everyone feel about the different stats? I was already in pretty close to BiS gear which put me sitting on the haste cap for my latency without reforging anything. All the gear has Haste and Crit and I don't need any Expertise so I'm overloaded with Hit but. I'm finding it to be pretty damn disappointing that once we hit the Hit/Exp/Haste cap all extra points are pretty much useless. Sure you can forge into Mastery but it's about as effective as a stat as being over the hit cap.

Opinions and thoughts?

[blazto]

So now that we have had a few buffs to bring us back up to where we were, How does everyone feel about the different stats? I was already in pretty close to BiS gear which put me sitting on the haste cap for my latency without reforging anything. All the gear has Haste and Crit and I don't need any Expertise so I'm overloaded with Hit but. I'm finding it to be pretty damn disappointing that once we hit the Hit/Exp/Haste cap all extra points are pretty much useless. Sure you can forge into Mastery but it's about as effective as a stat as being over the hit cap.

Opinions and thoughts?

Even though our mastery isn't game changing any extra stats should be put into mastery. If it's a dps increase then it's not wasted.

[Requital]

Even though our mastery isn't game changing any extra stats should be put into mastery. If it's a dps increase then it's not wasted.

Well of course but it's not a DPS gain in fact it can be a loss or gain it's one of those things you have to guess with not a good stat at all.

[blahssat]

Ret gets 6% spell hit just from being ret; it's part of your specialization. If you're melee hit capped, you're spell capped too. If you're hit, exp, and haste (??????) capped, reforge to mastery.

p.s. I really didn't know you could haste cap as a melee...

[Requital]

Ret gets 6% spell hit just from being ret; it's part of your specialization. If you're melee hit capped, you're spell capped too. If you're hit, exp, and haste (??????) capped, reforge to mastery.

p.s. I really didn't know you could haste cap as a melee...

Mastery is bad.

[kcm24]

Wow there is a haste cap, thanks blizz for ruining my dream to swing a 2handers every .5 seconds

[Requital]

Wow there is a haste cap, thanks blizz for ruining my dream to swing a 2handers every .5 seconds

I suck at detecting sarcasm over the internet so I'll just write this one down as that.

[Revolutions]

Mastery is bad.

Most mastery is undertuned or "bad". It can be good, its a proc that you don't have to use and allows you to throw extra TVs out at no extra cost, you could have been stuck with Combat's mastery.

[KnightTemplar]

I like that we are going to rely a lot on TV, so hit and expertise will be important. Haste is a nice stat, Mastery has POTENTIAL to be awesome, but it's horrid atm.

Crit is always fun, BIG numbers. But with Hammer of Wrath critting most of the time, thats already taken care of (They need to fix scaling issues with it btw)

[Rlyskilled]

Most mastery is undertuned or "bad". It can be good, its a proc that you don't have to use and allows you to throw extra TVs out at no extra cost, you could have been stuck with Combat's mastery.

That's the thing, our HoL TVs are not "free".

[Requital]

Most mastery is undertuned or "bad". It can be good, its a proc that you don't have to use and allows you to throw extra TVs out at no extra cost, you could have been stuck with Combat's mastery.

Actually no ones Mastery is a DPS loss but ours so I'd trade you a passive damage Mastery over a Mastery that can be a DPS loss.

[Floross]

Requital , H Cryptmaker vs H Brynt ?

Also , I'm feeling the ret dps atm. Stats still bug me with the variable CS cooldown, but I'll worry bout that when cata comes out with the new haste ratings and blizzard's design goals.

[Deleted]

Actually my DPS went up from 3.3.5, i'm sitting at 18k DPS on Putricide and 15k on Sindragosa.

So right now, if you have a decent haste capped stuff and master your rotation, you can do very well.

[Cardolan]

I'm finding it to be pretty damn disappointing that once we hit the Hit/Exp/Haste cap all extra points are pretty much useless.

Opinions and thoughts?

The value of haste isn't zero once you have a "3 second" Crusader Strike, so you may as well reforge any wasted hit or expertise into haste where possible.

[Deleted]

I really have no idea what trinkets to use. I have Heroic WFS, Heroic TAiaJ, Heroic DC and HWT. TAiaJ does such less damage now I don't think it is worth using, but i honestly don't know. Oh and can someone tell me the haste cap? I'm currently at 808 haste rating with HWT equiped.

[Fizzlebeard]

Isn't Crit the best stat after being Hit, Exp and Hastecapped?

[Deleted]

Single target dps seems fine to me, which is what counts in my book.

Statwise I get your point Requital, it seems kinda meh when your at the hastesoftcap w/o reforging, specially as every single item but TAiJ has crit on it, and mastery also seems very...lagging.

The only point in reducing CS CD further than the softcap, as I see it, is to be able to use CS faster after casting
exorcism/holywrath(/consecration), but this extra haste will be completely wasted during Zealotry, HoL procs and ofc standard 3 HP TV usage...

So after the initial "OMG imma regem, reforge all the crit to haste I can get, and start hitting the dummy", I actually reverted to just reforging excess expertise to haste, weee!

If only they would fix the exorcism glyph, so I can reforge back to expertise, and re-glyph SoT to exorcism.

(Ya heard 95 expertise rating plus glyph is the new dodge cap right dawgs?)

[Cardolan]

The only point in reducing CS CD further than the softcap, as I see it, is to be able to use CS faster after casting
exorcism/holywrath(/consecration), but this extra haste will be completely wasted during Zealotry, HoL procs and ofc standard 3 HP TV usage...

That's incorrect, since haste does considerably more than just decrease the cooldown on Crusader Strike. It also means faster melee swings and more Censure ticks.

Given the choice between a stat that you've already capped, such as hit, and haste, haste is always the better option - choosing to stick with unneeded hit or expertise is wasting potential DPS.

[Deleted]

Given the choice between a stat that you've already capped, such as hit, and haste, haste is always the better option - choosing to stick with unneeded hit or expertise is wasting potential DPS.

Erh, yeah? Has anyone been debating this?

The issue is crit->haste reforging, or even crit->mastery reforging, and the point that there really isn't a point in reforging if your hit/expertise capped/overcapped, and haste softcapped/oversoftcap.

-edit-

What I'm trying to say is, that given the choice between a stat you've allready SOFTcapped(haste) and...... what then is the other choice?

[Requital]

Requital , H Cryptmaker vs H Brynt ?

Also , I'm feeling the ret dps atm. Stats still bug me with the variable CS cooldown, but I'll worry bout that when cata comes out with the new haste ratings and blizzard's design goals.

Cryptmaker higher top end more weapon damage from TV/CS

I don't really want more that isn't what I mean, Actually no it doesn't work out at 85 i's the same shitty ass Mastery @ 85 that it is now it's not free DPS it's trading what we would have already been using for a TV so it can be either free DPS or a DPS loss. No other class has to deal with that every other class Mastery is actually useful though for some it's slim for us it's bad.

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 11:44 AM ----------

Actually my DPS went up from 3.3.5, i'm sitting at 18k DPS on Putricide and 15k on Sindragosa.

So right now, if you have a decent haste capped stuff and master your rotation, you can do very well.

Your DPS went up because Blizzard realized they screwed us so they buffed coefficients, Your current DPS has very little if anything at all to do with Mastery.

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 11:47 AM ----------

The value of haste isn't zero once you have a "3 second" Crusader Strike, so you may as well reforge any wasted hit or expertise into haste where possible.

You are correct the value isn't 0 but you realize if you softcap haste and and put all extra reforging into dodge for instance your DPS would fluctuate about the same as if you had reforged into Mastery or deeper into Haste. I don't know about you but if tanking stats are as effective as our DPS Mastery and additional Haste I see that as a failed design.

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 11:48 AM ----------

Isn't Crit the best stat after being Hit, Exp and Hastecapped?

Sure it is but every piece of gear you already have has crit so you can't reforge to it. That is the situation a lot of us are in so it's rather disappointing. Sure it's only going to be 2 months but 2 months or not it's a 100% failed concept and design by Blizzard so their track record continues to be shit.

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 11:54 AM ----------

Single target dps seems fine to me, which is what counts in my book.

Statwise I get your point Requital, it seems kinda meh when your at the hastesoftcap w/o reforging, specially as every single item but TAiJ has crit on it, and mastery also seems very...lagging.

The only point in reducing CS CD further than the softcap, as I see it, is to be able to use CS faster after casting
exorcism/holywrath(/consecration), but this extra haste will be completely wasted during Zealotry, HoL procs and ofc standard 3 HP TV usage...

So after the initial "OMG imma regem, reforge all the crit to haste I can get, and start hitting the dummy", I actually reverted to just reforging excess expertise to haste, weee!

If only they would fix the exorcism glyph, so I can reforge back to expertise, and re-glyph SoT to exorcism.

(Ya heard 95 expertise rating plus glyph is the new dodge cap right dawgs?)

Yes exactly You can reforge deeper into haste and get very little if any gain out of it or You can reforge into Mastery and get a gain or loss depending on your RNG. So if you have Hit Cap, Expertise Cap and or Haste Softcap you can't gain shit else out of it. You can't reforge crit because all the gear is already heavy on crit.

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 11:57 AM ----------

That's incorrect, since haste does considerably more than just decrease the cooldown on Crusader Strike. It also means faster melee swings and more Censure ticks.

Given the choice between a stat that you've already capped, such as hit, and haste, haste is always the better option - choosing to stick with unneeded hit or expertise is wasting potential DPS.

Reforging into excess haste past the softcap is not a true DPS gain if you don't believe it give it a try I can hit 1100 haste and sit at nearly the same DPS as I sit at with the softcap which is 400 haste less stacking ahste past the point of use is just as much of a DPS waste as being over the hit or expertise cap.