Holy Priest Worries

[Aliahna]

All the noise of "holy being worthless" had nothing to do with it either. Or saying "it's not going to happen".

You said you were trying to be optimistic, but you've done nothing but bitch the entire time, and flat out ignore blue posts saying that they intended to do this, when you yourself aren't on beta and are only going by "logs", pushing down anyone else's opinion that didn't match yours. Sorry, get off your horse. I assure you, Jhazrun had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I am not making smug posts acting all high and mighty like some of you as if you had something to do with it. You dont know what contributed to the changes if it wasnt information that came out of the beta raid testing. Once more proving you dont know what you are talking about at all.

Go back to what your sig is about and spread some more porn around the site. Is that how you got that moderator position? We know its not your class knowledge or experience.

[ramennoodleking]

I just got to say I love your smugness. As if you had anything to do with the changes? Maybe it was the attention those logs that you repeatedly put down, or maybe it was in part to all the noise others were making, but I assure you, you had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I actually wasn't referring to you or the conversations prior to today's new build. Last I checked we were goin on out for beer and/or pie.

This comment was in reference to the new people still complaining and whining that this wasn't enough, that pallies holy radiance was still OP (which I do not deny) and that Druid mana is still not where they want it. This is the negativity to which I speak.

And by feeling good about this, I feel good about the changes being positive. Not about anyone being right.

Please get the sand out of your panties, it wasn't a personal attack.

[Trink]

I am not making smug posts acting all high and mighty like some of you as if you had something to do with it. You dont know what contributed to the changes if it wasnt information that came out of the beta raid testing. Once more proving you dont know what you are talking about at all.

Go back to what your sig is about and spread some more porn around the site. Is that how you got that moderator position? We know its not your class knowledge or experience.

I agree Aliahna, I find Ramennoodleking and Kelesti to be very immature.

[Kelesti]

I am not making smug posts acting all high and mighty like some of you as if you had something to do with it. You dont know what contributed to the changes if it wasnt information that came out of the beta raid testing.

Using the ingame suggestion and feedback tools, based off my own personal experiences, instead of echo'ing what I saw from a youtube video of a top guild helps. Actually being in beta to speak my own stance helps.

Once more proving you dont know what you are talking about at all.

Now you're starting to sound like TiduZ. Or that other guy. The funny thing about TiduZ, is he actually was farther ahead than me and successfully proved me wrong. (On a fight I hadn't seen yet, no less) You haven't. You've done nothing but cry foul that people here didn't take what Jhazrun was saying at face value, ignoring the fact that the healing situation was not only broken but addressed as broken. Yes. Publicly admitted that Blizzard fucked up and was going to fix it. You flat out ignored that, completely, continuing to say that Blizzard was doing nothing and it was the end of times.

There are forums for fans of Paragon. They're the Paragon forums. They're the official forums. Go ahead and be their fans, pat them on the back when they and anyone else will do whatever it takes to get a kill before others.

Go back to what your sig is about and spread some more porn around the site. Is that how you got that moderator position? We know its not your class knowledge or experience.

If you have any comments about my moderation, feel free to use the Contact Us button to e-mail Boubouille directly. Or send a Private Message to Sunshine or Boubouille or Lysah! directly. But that is not a topic for public discussion.

[ramennoodleking]

For the record, I never argued that I had anything to do with changes...all I ever said was be patient, blizzard said they'd fix it. That's it. Blue posts and common sense were my only proof.

[Aliahna]

Noodle, you wont find people getting upset if you stop acting smug. Yes these are good changes...they are steps in the right diection. The other poster was just trying to point out it still remains to be seen if it is enough. Like he said, we will have new info soon, from logs and videos as some here like to continually put down. Once that info comes out we will know if we are getting closer to being balanced. I hope so, and yes we are still going out for a beer.

[Harith]

i share your worries priests somthing feels abit odd from what i have seen and what i felt when i lvl my priest post 4.0 compaired to my paladin witch has no issues at all with mana when healing in lower lvls. hope they find a nice balaence before cata comes out

[ramennoodleking]

I honestly think you and perhaps others are confusing words on an Internet site to be smug. You can't see my face or discern my thoughts as I speak these words. I disagreed with your points in the past, and with these changes it does feel good to know that I wasn't crazy afterall. So yes, I'll enjoy my proverbial popcorn, but it's not in spite of you. It's in celebration of my sanity and patience when otherwise I was inwardly worrying that things might turn out different.

So ya, I'll take a Blue Moon with a slice or orange, and you want a crown and coke? Kel, I brought some of my grandmas famous chocolate pie, dairy friendly

[harky]

The internet is serious business guys. SERIOUSLY. Gosh.

Aliahna, the problem is still the sample size. I know you're probably of the mind that some information is better than no information, but that's not always the case. Jhazrun is a good example of that. Looking at Paragons logs, or other guilds that are making logs public from beta? Yeah, that's very helpful if you're good with logs. If you're not then you wind up with some distorted opinions. Like people touting that Holy is going OOM in 3 minutes. Or those claiming Druid regen was so far ahead that they could spend their entire mana bar 5 times over a fight unbuffed. Keep in mind that Blizzard is typically spying on raids in Beta. They do it on live as well if they know a guild is very far ahead of the other guilds on their server (or they're a top-100 guild in general). Of all the guilds being run on Beta you're basing your opinion on what is essentially a single source, maybe two or three if you can find the logs. There are several dozen guilds doing the content in Beta. It's a lot like politics. Whoever is the loudest will usually get heard and people on the fringes are usually louder than those with more rational beliefs.

TL;DR the poor state of Holy on beta is vastly exaggerated. It was only 'poor' in relation to classes with mechanics that were blatantly broken. It would be like allowing someone on a full steroid cycle compete in the Olympics and then claiming that the normal athletes were all under-trained.

[Aliahna]

All the noise of "holy being worthless" had nothing to do with it either. Or saying "it's not going to happen".

You said you were trying to be optimistic, but you've done nothing but bitch the entire time, and flat out ignore blue posts saying that they intended to do this, when you yourself aren't on beta and are only going by "logs", pushing down anyone else's opinion that didn't match yours. Sorry, get off your horse. I assure you, Jhazrun had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You are lumping me with Jhazrun for no reason. I challenge you to find any statement I made that siad "holy was worthless" or " it's not going to happen.". Do that before you make yourself look any more foolish.

Also let the thread get back on topic. If others have concerns about the spec this is where they can talk about, hopefully in a civil manner with other priests without being attacked or called names. There is nothing preventing others in making a Holy Priest Optimism thread. The continual bickering and tearing down of fellow priests on this site is starting to look like the WoW forums, and that is not a compliment.

[Deleted]

In the end everyone was right as people were basically pointing out that the issue in the end was imbalance, regardless of whether they thought it was buffing or nerfing that was required, their underlining point was the same. So less condescending sarcasm and attacking and more hugging guys. We are all in the same team afterall.

[Omnus]

The internet is serious business guys. SERIOUSLY. Gosh.

Aliahna, the problem is still the sample size. I know you're probably of the mind that some information is better than no information, but that's not always the case. Jhazrun is a good example of that. Looking at Paragons logs, or other guilds that are making logs public from beta? Yeah, that's very helpful if you're good with logs. If you're not then you wind up with some distorted opinions. Like people touting that Holy is going OOM in 3 minutes. Or those claiming Druid regen was so far ahead that they could spend their entire mana bar 5 times over a fight unbuffed. Keep in mind that Blizzard is typically spying on raids in Beta. They do it on live as well if they know a guild is very far ahead of the other guilds on their server (or they're a top-100 guild in general). Of all the guilds being run on Beta you're basing your opinion on what is essentially a single source, maybe two or three if you can find the logs. There are several dozen guilds doing the content in Beta. It's a lot like politics. Whoever is the loudest will usually get heard and people on the fringes are usually louder than those with more rational beliefs.

TL;DR the poor state of Holy on beta is vastly exaggerated. It was only 'poor' in relation to classes with mechanics that were blatantly broken. It would be like allowing someone on a full steroid cycle compete in the Olympics and then claiming that the normal athletes were all under-trained.

I'm hoping this is right and we're just seeing other classes being fixed. Blizzard has made a real commitment to balance and I think we'll see that at level 85 in December.

[Aliahna]

Harky, I know we dont have a good sample size. Trust me I soent a lot of time trying to find as many guilds/ groups logs from Beta testing as I could before I made any conclusions that holy was having problems. WoLs being terribly out of date with the new spells and encounters doesn't help.

But we should be a community here that can link and discuss the data coming out of the Beta raid testing in a civil manner.

---------- Post added 2010-11-03 at 07:25 PM ----------

In the end everyone was right as people were basically pointing out that the issue in the end was imbalance, regardless of whether they thought it was buffing or nerfing that was required, their underlining point was the same. So less condescending sarcasm and attacking and more hugging guys. We are all in the same team afterall.

Agreed. Now where is that pie?

[Lysah]

The continual bickering and tearing down of fellow priests on this site is starting to look like the WoW forums, and that is not a compliment.

You mean exactly what you're doing? Good riddance.

[Deleted]

i see druids revitalize and rejuv getting nerfd cant wait to see some logs, see if its made any difference not sure what to make of pala changes holy radiance hasnt changed at all

[Bagag]

In the end everyone was right as people were basically pointing out that the issue in the end was imbalance, regardless of whether they thought it was buffing or nerfing that was required, their underlining point was the same.

Yeah it's funny how a discussion can go on for 20 pages although all people have more or less the same opinion and are just looking at it from different angles.


Concerning the new beta build, it's nice to see that they bring the druids manareg more in line with other healers.

But somehow i miss a palanerf. They were on par with the druids before this new build and now only get a tooltip clarification and even a buff to Light of Dawn? So palastacking now?


Out of topic: I think it's sad to see Aliahna banned...although she was a bit too emotional and aggressiv she always contributed some valid arguments to the disussion. Really liked her position in this thread.

[Deleted]

...
Out of topic: I think it's sad to see Aliahna banned...although she was a bit too emotional and aggressiv she always contributed some valid arguments to the disussion. Really liked her position in this thread.

Yes, I was very confused why Aliahna was banned for a while since the last few posts from Aliahna were not particularly constructive to say the least but nothing glaringly bad or rule breaking. Then I saw the end of post #423 on this page... Not surprised any more!

That said, it is a BIG failing of this site that when people are banned there is no simple way to see WHY they were banned. Half the time with ban-heavy moderators like Sunshine the reasons given are never listed in any of the Sticky guidelines. It all seems a little adhoc to say the least.

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand. I guess we're all waiting on post-patch data now, especially from druids and we get to see how really effective that range reduction on Holy Radiance is/isn't.

[Sunshine]

That said, it is a BIG failing of this site that when people are banned there is no simple way to see WHY they were banned. Half the time with ban-heavy moderators like Sunshine the reasons given are never listed in any of the Sticky guidelines. It all seems a little adhoc to say the least.

See http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...=1#post9303190 . The person who's banned can see why they're banned and can appeal to bring it to the attention of admins/etc. Anyone else doesn't really need to know why they were banned. If you're concerned about knowing the rules, please read the FAQ linked at the top of every page of the forum, and if you have any concerns about moderation, please feel free to PM an admin or Boubouille.

Beyond that, I'm closing this thread, as it's far derailed now.