An Idea.

[thealexbobsy]

As the current system stands, Justice Points reward you with Heroic Dungeon Gear, and Valor Points reward you with Raiding/Epic Quality Gear. When Tier 12 comes out all of that epic gear will become attainable with Justice Points.

How would you guys feel if instead of making the Raiding/Epic Quality Gear become attainable through Justice Points, instead, it was just sold at a reduced cost while still using Valor Points? Maybe they could nerf the cost by 50% the first go around, and then when Tier 13 came out, Tier 11 would then become purchasable with Justice Points.

I think this would eliminate the ability to "farm heroics" for full Tier 11 (When Tier 12 was out, of course) while at the same time preserving the idea that epics are in fact, epic. I'm in no way an elitist, but I do like the idea of having the community having a nice spread of gear without making the non raiders feel like they got the short end of the stick for not raiding. I think that with the removal of the different item levels on gear when changing between 10s and 25man raid, it's going to make a lot of characters appear to look the same. Not only that, but it also strengthens my belief that skill > gear, and with less armor sets and differentiating item levels, that leaves a lot more room for skill to come into play.

So tell me your thoughts. Constructive criticism only please.

[Deleted]

That would lead to a point where you cant get your T11 anymore with alts or by beeing late. When noone is raiding T11 anymore. Also T11 raid will give Justice Points by the time T12 hits. Considering that, there is even less chance to get into raid viable gear. Unless you suggest, poeple should raid t12 content with heroic dungoen gear.

[thealexbobsy]

That would lead to a point where you cant get your T11 anymore with alts or by beeing late. When noone is raiding T11 anymore. Also T11 raid will give Justice Points by the time T12 hits. Considering that, there is even less chance to get into raid viable gear. Unless you suggest, poeple should raid t12 content with heroic dungoen gear.

I understand exactly what you mean, and I'll admit, I didn't think that part through.

Knowing that most of the T11 costs 1600-2200 points, the reduced price of lets say.. 50% would land the cost for a pair of gloves around 800 Valor Points. With daily heroics already bringing you to about 1/3 of weekly cap for Valor Points (Cap is 1250. All of your Daily Heroics added together bring you to 490 a week. 70 each.), then maybe they could have all of the Tier 11 Raids drop a reduced amount of valor points to compensate. Yes, I know this would allow players to recieve Tier 12 through Tier 11 content, but remember that they will also reset all VP to JP when the new tier is released. If the old bosses only dropped 50% of the valor point that they used to, players will probably find it painfully slow to save up for Tier 12 while raiding old content when Tier 11 will be much easier, and quicker to attain.

Sorry if that sounded confusing. I can help clarify anything if needed.

[Goat7]

Why should anyone who doesn't raid get epics again? I have a extremely busy schedule and cannot raid, i should not have any option of getting raiding gear imo. Blue's from heroics is fine with me, if i desire epics i should have to raid.

If i need gear from one raiding content to access higher raiding content, then thats the way it is.

But then i again im old school and have full set of Tier 3 40 man naxx gear... when raiding was raiding

[thealexbobsy]

Why should anyone who doesn't raid get epics again? I have a extremely busy schedule and cannot raid, i should not have any option of getting raiding gear imo. Blue's from heroics is fine with me, if i desire epics i should have to raid.

If i need gear from one raiding content to access higher raiding content, then thats the way it is.

But then i again im old school and have full set of Tier 3 40 man naxx gear... when raiding was raiding

You can still easily get epics through doing dailies, and of course, my current idea would allow you to purchase epics with JP once Tier 13 is the current raiding set.

[nikat]

Why should anyone who doesn't raid get epics again? I have a extremely busy schedule and cannot raid, i should not have any option of getting raiding gear imo. Blue's from heroics is fine with me, if i desire epics i should have to raid.

If i need gear from one raiding content to access higher raiding content, then thats the way it is.

But then i again im old school and have full set of Tier 3 40 man naxx gear... when raiding was raiding

realistically there needs to be a way to obtain raid gear just below the current raid tier so guilds can recruit people.

For instance.

In vanilla when my guild was progressing through naxx, it was terrible trying to recruit people, as they needed to have BWL/AQ40/Naxx gear (really mostly AQ40/Naxx by the time we were working deap into Naxx) to get in the guild, but the only way they could get that gear was via raiding, and if they are already raiding you are forced to only recruit from guilds on your server that are below you in progress. And on smaller servers this can be difficult to impossible.

Same thing happened in BC to an extent in BT/MH, you needed people in gear to help you progress, but to have that gear they already needed to be in a solid guild.

Blizzard has done what they have with gear to make it easier for guilds to progress as a whole, without having to be douche bags by stealing other guild members.

Now lets not even talk about people switching mains, or needing alts/casuals to help fill a raid.

While I can appreciate your stand point as a raider, as someone who has been an officer/guild leader in progression guild, the ease of gearing people up in today's wow is much better then it once was.

Though that being said, from what I have seen of the new system for cata it will probably be a nice middle ground between vanilla and WotLK loot.

[thealexbobsy]

You bring up a strong point, Nikat.

Though you also have to keep in mind that someone who doesn't raid on a hardcore schedule can still get 640 Valor Points out of the weekly 1250 cap just by doing their daily heroic(70VP x 7 Days a week = 490), and their weekly raid (140VP) = 630 VP. That allows most people to be granted a guaranteed epic item every 2-3 weeks. I don't think that gearing up alts by using this method I have provided would be any less harder than it was in Wotlk. If anything, the way epics were handed out in Wotlk should have been toned down just a tad.

[Mixon]

i think we are tooo quickly forgetting the plight of WotLK Uld+ were you were constantly recruiting well geared player that you had to kick the next day when you realized they had never raided b4. Thus GS was born so you can quickly make sure there gear lvl is higher than can be obtained by badges thus meaning they have at least some raiding exp. wouldn't it just be easier to make the gear separation wider?

[thealexbobsy]

i think we are tooo quickly forgetting the plight of WotLK Uld+ were you were constantly recruiting well geared player that you had to kick the next day when you realized they had never raided b4. Thus GS was born so you can quickly make sure there gear lvl is higher than can be obtained by badges thus meaning they have at least some raiding exp. wouldn't it just be easier to make the gear separation wider?

Yes, my guild saw a few bads somehow make it into the roster, but that was usually because they were referred by someone who thought they were good, or they ended up joining on a social basis. Any guild that has a good recruitment/screening process is usually able to weed them out beforehand.