Prot Pallies and Righteous fury

[Asur]

The only change in play style is that ret shouldn't use devo aura unless they are OTing, I dont see that as a problem.

What if you have a non paladin tank, the other tanks that could use the bonus armor for mitigation? that would effectively either make the ret unable to dps or the tanks would be at a disadvantage

[Samimasi]

You say raids aren't balanced around having a devotion aura, who cares?

Those warrior and druid tanking here want the extra armor from it, and you're telling them "sorry, can't do that"

If you don't see that as a problem, then sorry mate, you need some fresh air.

[Krekko]

What if you have a non paladin tank, the other tanks that could use the bonus armor for mitigation? that would effectively either make the ret unable to dps or the tanks would be at a disadvantage

This.

The beauty of our Auras is their flexibility. They are situationally flexible, and with the changes made back (as ret) we were no longer tied into a single aura to offer additional benefit. We have this flexibility, and quite frankly I think we all love it. Quit beating the dead horse, it seems like you're the only one to be fond of your idea.

If you couldn't tell most of us think you're a huge idiot, and most of us hate your idea. Get over it, and learn to turn Righteous fury on and off.

[Grocalis]

Im not saying that auras should be like stances. Im saying that "tank mode" for other classes are tied to their class spells. Im saying it can be the same for paladins without much of a problem.

And I have shown you it can be very much a problem, because auras are not designed to work like stances. They are supposed to be versatile and switched on the fly for the benefit of the raid.

I just keep on tanking maintaining 2nd threat and when the time comes to switch back I just taunt. I fail to see how paladins moves must be so high threat that they need to stop generating extra threat so the 2nd tank can do his job.

Because there are times you don't want to accidentally overtake the threat of the other tank, but also maximize your own DPS during the time you don't have to tank. I can't use all my abilities to the fullest if I worry about turning Onyxia to the side and having her light all the healers on fire because the other tank had a few bad misses and I was way to high on the list hitting her with my shield.

Once again, you are attempting to change a mechanic to make it worst. I don't appreciate that.

[Deleted]

I think by now it's pretty obvious that OP is either to stupid to understand his logic is completely flawed, to ignorant and stuborn to admit he is wrong or trolling. Either way he is never going to agree with every other person that has posted in this thread and is not worth the effort of trying to convince.


He's wrong we're right /THREAD

[Anielin]

What if you have a non paladin tank, the other tanks that could use the bonus armor for mitigation? that would effectively either make the ret unable to dps or the tanks would be at a disadvantage

This whole buff war has been fought for a long time, if you really think that it would come to a point where the extra armor is so important then I guess blizz will have to give devo aura to another class so its fair. I have never heard of a raid looking for a pally to provide it.

They might as well give Retribution aura and crusader auras to other classes to because that would be fair. That is if devotion aura is so vital.



---------- Post added 2010-10-21 at 05:42 PM ----------

I think by now it's pretty obvious that OP is either to stupid to understand his logic is completely flawed, to ignorant and stuborn to admit he is wrong or trolling. Either way he is never going to agree with every other person that has posted in this thread and is not worth the effort of trying to convince.

Bravo on your shouting, that the usual tactic when you just don't want to hear people whether you agree or not. Do you have any real point to add?

[Asur]

This whole buff war has been fought for a long time, if you really think that it would come to a point where the extra armor is so important then I guess blizz will have to give devo aura to another class so its fair. I have never heard of a raid looking for a pally to provide it.

They might as well give Retribution aura and crusader auras to other classes to because that would be fair. That is if devotion aura is so vital.

Guess min/maxing is beyond this conversation.

[Samimasi]

Anielin, compare the world that exists now and the world that you are introducing.

The world you are introducing have some issues that has been mentioned several times, your reply to those issues was that they weren't a big deal, while you are wrong that they aren't a big deal, let's ignore that and settle for that fact that you just acknowledge their existence.

The world that exists now have no issues whatsoever.

So, isn't obvious that today's world is better than yours?

[Anielin]

Guess min/maxing is beyond this conversation.

But the argument you are suggesting is subjective too. By forcing a ret to use devo instead of retribution aura how much boss damage are you missing out on especially if the raid is fine with out extra armor. You are talking about increasing armor to provide a little more dmg reduction but thats if it hits, you have avoidance too. Retribution aura is potentially alot of damage across a fight.

its a damage vs defense argument and if you still think the tank HAS to have it, then other classes need to carry it

[Munk]

Would just be so much simpler to include the passive threat increase to the level 10 spec choice. They can keep rf as a way of allowing holy/rets to keep agro in the one in a thousand chance they ever need to but make the two not stackable.

That way you dont lose aura flexibility and its not terribly complex.

[Anielin]

Anielin, compare the world that exists now and the world that you are introducing.

The world you are introducing have some issues that has been mentioned several times, your reply to those issues was that they weren't a big deal, while you are wrong that they aren't a big deal, let's ignore that and settle for that fact that you just acknowledge their existence.

The world that exists now have no issues whatsoever.

So, isn't obvious that today's world is better than yours?

I would stay its more along the line of apples and oranges.

And I will reiterate this one last time then im done with this thread (I swear!) Nothing needs changed from the way it is now, but I feel it could be changed and be better, agree or disagree its your choice.

[Richmond]

One of my alts is a pally, I spec ret and Prot. Every time I switch to Prot I forget Righteous Fury (/smacks head). Its just a strange mechanic and doesn't quite jive with other tanking classes. This is a suggestion to streamline the "threat spell" for paladins as a whole.

RF is a Paladins equivalent to Bear form, Defensive Stance, Blood Presence. Nothing needs changing

[Akairos]

How is clicking RF different from clicking frost presence/defensive stance/bear form?

How exactly does it not "jive?"

[Binion]

How does this thread go 7 pages? Bad idea is bad. I like RF the way it is, as do many paladins.

In BC there were certain fights that required holy paladins to have RF up, so healing aggro on adds would be drawn to a certain place, its a nice mechanic that makes our class unique.

If you can't remember to put it on when you go Prot, I know it has been said but it really is a L2P.

[Asur]

But the argument you are suggesting is subjective too. By forcing a ret to use devo instead of retribution aura how much boss damage are you missing out on especially if the raid is fine with out extra armor. You are talking about increasing armor to provide a little more dmg reduction but thats if it hits, you have avoidance too. Retribution aura is potentially alot of damage across a fight.

its a damage vs defense argument and if you still think the tank HAS to have it, then other classes need to carry it

I'm not saying a tank has to have it but if its there using it is a good idea. Ret aura is a shit aura for raiding and armor will always outweigh the minor damage of ret aura. Constraining it to an aura would just be a bad idea.

You say nothing needs to be changed but then you say it can be changed to be better, you should really make up your mind. You had an idea, people didn't agree. That's life, just accept it and move on. Having to work around Devo aura/threat is not a "better" choice.

[Porktacos]

You're bitching that the features that give paladins defense and threat are separate? Umm... you're dumb.

[knumskul]

My contention is that it should be a class spell that has parity with auras whether baked in or separate.

And as do your example, Prot pallies would be fine, if you needed a ret OT there would be an issue but how many resistance fights are there that need a non tank spec OT?

Show me where in my post did i say ret tank or non tank spec OT?

Since you have such a memory problem just post a sticky note on your screen reminding you to switch RF on. Or just stop playing a pally

---------- Post added 2010-10-21 at 07:22 PM ----------

This whole buff war has been fought for a long time, if you really think that it would come to a point where the extra armor is so important then I guess blizz will have to give devo aura to another class so its fair. I have never heard of a raid looking for a pally to provide it.

They might as well give Retribution aura and crusader auras to other classes to because that would be fair. That is if devotion aura is so vital.

I'm pretty sure that raid that downed H LK in 7mins with only 3 healers woul disagree with you on this. Every armor point WILL make a difference, other wise the healers will have to heal more and end up going oom.

[Grocalis]

if you really think that it would come to a point where the extra armor is so important then I guess blizz will have to give devo aura to another class so its fair.

They did, it's called Stoneskin Totem.

The extra armor is always important, but that is only half the arguement. You seem to ignore the other half by not realizing what Auras are designed to be.

If you want your system of threat being tied to our class auras, then they will have to be removed as auras, and turned into stances. That is the only way Blizzard would use your idea, and I think most Paladins agree we don't want to see that happen.

[Deleted]

But the argument you are suggesting is subjective too. By forcing a ret to use devo instead of retribution aura how much boss damage are you missing out on especially if the raid is fine with out extra armor. You are talking about increasing armor to provide a little more dmg reduction but thats if it hits, you have avoidance too. Retribution aura is potentially alot of damage across a fight.

its a damage vs defense argument and if you still think the tank HAS to have it, then other classes need to carry it

wait wait barely 200 extra damage everytime the boss hits the tank can somehow be better than the extra damage reduction devo gives you clearly now little about paladins and as other said your system ahs issues that does not exist in the current system and in what way is auras core paladin spells and RF not? both are unique to the class and both do their job well.
you want to change devo aura to defensive stance or blood presence for some reason and fail to see how this would affect raids without prot paladins wich also tells me that you have little to no experience in raid leading.
or you are rather selfish for wanting a change that will make life easyer for you but harder for all non prot paladins and even for some rpot paladins since they wont be able to turn of their extra treath regen.
in short your way does not improve anything and makes things harder for everyone and still you want to keep it and you keep arguing about it when alot of other people alredy ahve told you about these issues.
either you are very stubborn or as stupid as the raid leader in my old guild or this is the most succesfull troll i have seen

[Deleted]

I guess blizz will have to give devo aura to another class so its fair. I have never heard of a raid looking for a pally to provide it.

Shamans would like to talk with you.