Prot Pally Rotation/Threat Issue

[Saracens]

I'm usually Holy, but we needed a tank for some alt ICC10s and i decided to help out. I had issue keeping threat from a DK tank who was OTing for me. Not too seriouly an issue, his tank set outgeared me a bit but nothing to drastic that my moves were being outdone entirely. I was wondering if there's a page where this was already discussed I could be directed to or if some knowledge could be shared with me! Thanks.

[Deleted]

put ya face on button 1 area then slowly roll it to number 5 repeat till mobs dead.

or make this macro
/castsequence reset=3 Crusader Strike,Judgement,Crusader Strike,Crusader Strike,Shield of the Righteous,

on a draw patch inbetween the 2 CS's use a Avengers shield or holy wrath or just pick ya nose upto you.
use seal or truth push that button hard.

[BDF]

#1. Use Hammer of the Righteous/Crusader Strike every other attack to generate holy power and use Shield of the Righteous when you reach 3 Holy Power.

#2. If you have the T10 2 piece bonus and a fast-swing weapon you'll want to use Hammer of the Righteous(with its prime glyph) in all situations, both single target and AoE. If you use a slow weapon (see #5) crusader strike for single target threat is superior.

#3. Inbetween each hammer/CS use the following moves in this priority: Avenger's Shield > Judge > Holy Wrath > Consecrate

#4. http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/53709/ is a powerful talent, make sure you judge at least once before you use shield of the righteous for the chance to get this proc to make SotR crit.

#5. Don't use a tanking weapon. Get a high weapon damage (weapon damage...not to be confused with weapon dps), slow swing, dps 1-hander weapon. This really makes a big difference becuase each CS/HotR you use scales directly with weapon damage, and no matter the swing speed on your blade...the 3 sec CD on those two moves stays the same. Take advantage of that. (the 2.6 sec swing speed wrathful pvp 1 handers are great for this btw...lots of stam and lots of weapon damage)

#6. Your main source of damage, shield of the righteous, scales directly with attack power, so using a strength trinket will also help you in threat.

#7. If you aren't already...use wings when you pull or whenever a dps starts to creep up on threat.


#8. In addition to the above you could get hit capped and expertise to around 30 (with the seal of truth glyph active), also you should take one point out of Hollowed Ground and put it into Vindication...near-free damage reduction.

[Ishamyyl]

BDF is _almost_ spot on
I would say use SotR with 3 holy power before anything else, even hammer/CS...get rid of that HP!
There may be times when CS is coming off CD but there's other stuff you gotta do
(It happens more often as ret, when Divine Purpose procs a HP).

Unless someone can provide evidence that says delaying a CS cooldown is worse than using up the HP. (by worse, i guess i mean threat generation because that's OP's topic)



Also, it may be that DK threat these days simply outpaces pally's.

[BDF]

BDF is _almost_ spot on
I would say use SotR with 3 holy power before anything else, even hammer/CS...get rid of that HP!
There may be times when CS is coming off CD but there's other stuff you gotta do
(It happens more often as ret, when Divine Purpose procs a HP).

Unless someone can provide evidence that says delaying a CS cooldown is worse than using up the HP. (by worse, i guess i mean threat generation because that's OP's topic)

You're right, I thought I had implied it. I didn't think of situations like using a hand spell or Divine Gaurdian with 3hp.

Shield of the Righteous w/3hp is top priority...it's the reason you build holy power. I edited my post to better reflect that.

Though if you do have any other information regarding threat theorycrafting please do share....my tips were just put together from my knowledge of tanking before 4.0.1 and from minor experience in 4.0.1

[Nillo]

#4. Inbetween each hammer/CS use the following moves in this priority: Avenger's Shield > Judge > Holy Wrath > Consecrate

Instead of the priority list you're probably better off using the 93939 rotation as described on maintankadin: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...rb_v=viewtopic

You still use CS on cd, but instead of a priority it's always : Judge -> AS -> ShoR -> Judge -> HW -> ShoR -> repeat.

[Deleted]

I would add I was tank in ICC after normally playing holy, and had a DK alongside. I found it difficult to keep aoe threat alongside him unless they remain on consecration (of course), but as single target he just couldn't outstrip me. It's also a measure of the tank you are with, if they feel they HAVE to be at the top threat on every mob then let them go mental hitting all sorts of cd's to get there. I just tab round and make sure I am at least first or second, and if not, change it. To me that's the art of tanking (and OT at that). You aren't getting glory for topping the TPS metres, but you do get it if your MT drops dead and all the mobs run to you.

[Nillo]

I listed a priority because you can then fit in Grand Crusader procs into the system.

Which you shouldn't be specced into because it messes up your rotation which may result in a dps loss if you use it at the wrong time (and if you use it correctly it's still not much of a dps gain)

[vkei]

i go with :
1,hammer,judge,hammer,AS,hammer,shied
2,hammer,judee,hammer,HW,hammer,shied
3,repeat 1

use Con and HW earlier when AE

[jmoney12rr]

my rotation is..

AS > Crusader > Judge > Conc > Crusader > Crusader > SoTR.

if everything is on cooldown at once ill throw in an exorcism or a holy wrath for the hell of it. I have no threat problems and I can out threat a 6k GS tank and I'm only ~5.2kish

[hawk00]

i go with :
1,hammer,judge,hammer,AS,hammer,shied
2,hammer,judee,hammer,HW,hammer,shied
3,repeat 1

use Con and HW earlier when AE

this exactly, except i use HW first, then AS 2nd, i dunno why. i seem to hold threat with no problem

[Nillo]

ill throw in an exorcism

I can't even explain how fail this is

[Wotar]

my rotation is..

AS > Crusader > Judge > Conc > Crusader > Crusader > SoTR.

if everything is on cooldown at once ill throw in an exorcism or a holy wrath for the hell of it. I have no threat problems and I can out threat a 6k GS tank and I'm only ~5.2kish

Don't use exorcism, since you are casting, you cannot dodge, block, or parry anything until you aren't casting. Just an unecessary waste of healer mana.

[Shaun]

Why would you use HoTR instead of Crusader Strike on single target? i thought that 220+% of weapon damage was better than 44% of weapon + a % of magical damage

[Nillo]

Why would you use HoTR instead of Crusader Strike on single target? i thought that 220+% of weapon damage was better than 44% of weapon + a % of magical damage

With t10 2p, the glyph (which is vastly superior to the CS glyph) and possibly a fast tanking weapon CS hits lower than HotR.

[Bogomips]

With t10 2p, the glyph (which is vastly superior to the CS glyph) and possibly a fast tanking weapon CS hits lower than HotR.

We've been talking about this over at maintankadin. Hammer of the Righteous is superior for trash tanking and at the beginning of a boss fight. However, once you take enough damage (and gain enough vengeance) CS will vastly outperform HotR (whether either of the abilities are glyphed or not). If you are concerned about initial threat, use HotR until you have enough vengeance, then switch to CS.

Also, slow DPS weapons are not required. I still use Facelifter and I have very little problem with threat. Also, don't forget to pop Avenging Wrath before a boss fight for that extra bit of threat.

[Gallahadd]

aye, as for HoTR Vs Cs, I've gotta say Vengeance really is the key here, in heroics and easy raid bosses (with 2pcT10 & glyph) HoTR is better, but once you've got a good stack on Vengeance on your your CS's start to hit like frakkin trucks:P. I was Solotanking Sindi the other day (wasn't meant to, but our DK tank is a nub :P) and by the end I had ~7kAP from Vengeance (60k Frost breaths will do that :P) and my CS's were criting for 11k+ with wings popped. this is all with normal Bonebreakers, so if you were to sub in a PvP weapon, or a different Dps weapons I could see it going much, much higher.
On that note, which would be better for general tanking use.
Bonebreakers http://www.wowhead.com/item=50760
or
http://www.wowhead.com/item=51519
I've got about 7k honor from my horde of Stonekeeper shards, and now that they don't need rating anymore I figured what the hell :P

[Saracens]

#1. Ignore Holylicious' macro

#2. If you have the T10 2 piece bonus you'll want to use Hammer of the Righteous(with its prime glyph) in all situations, both single target and AoE.

#3. Use Hammer of the Righteous(with t10 2 piece..otherwise use crusader strike) every other attack to generate holy power and use Shield of the Righteous when you reach 3 Holy Power.

#4. Inbetween each hammer/CS use the following moves in this priority: Avenger's Shield > Judge > Holy Wrath > Consecrate

#5. http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/53709/ is a powerful talent, make sure you judge at least once before you use shield of the righteous for the chance to get this proc to make SotR crit.

#6. Don't use a tanking weapon. Get a high weapon damage (weapon damage...not to be confused with weapon dps), slow swing, dps 1-hander weapon. This really makes a big difference becuase each CS/HotR you use scales directly with weapon damage, and no matter the swing speed on your blade...the 3 sec CD on those two moves stays the same. Take advantage of that. (the 2.6 sec swing speed wrathful pvp 1 handers are great for this btw...lots of stam and lots of weapon damage)

#7. Your main source of damage, shield of the righteous, scales directly with attack power, so using a strength trinket will also help you in threat.

#8. If you aren't already...use wings when you pull or whenever a dps starts to creep up on threat.


In addition to the above you could get hit capped and expertise to around 30 (with the seal of truth glyph active), also you should take one point out of Hollowed Ground and put it into Vindication...near-free damage reduction.

Edit: I've edited this like 10 times so far.

Insanely helpful, thank you.

[Apostolic]

Bring out your old Broken Promise. Its the best TPS you can get across the board. :-D

393 rotation of any order should be enough to hold threat. Get that down and then worry about your specific priority rotation of AS>Judge>HW>HoW>Con.

Set your Shift+2 bar up for AOE tanking and Main bar for Single.

Also note, Word of Glory may not be OP, but after enough threat is generated I recommend switching to it in place of SotR. I was able to keep myself up on Sindy 10 with WoG+SoI+JoL up to about 20 stacks.

[Nillo]

Bring out your old Broken Promise. Its the best TPS you can get across the board. :-D

The Onyxia sword is already better than it for threat !_! and pretty much every single ICC dps weapon has way more survivability.