Finally something from the Devs regarding Rogue issues [specifically combat]

[phayze]

This just in from Blizzcon:

At least we finally got something out of them, that no amount of cajoling, bitching, begging, and threatening on the official beta forums were able to do.

Combat rogues need help. Apparently on the next beta build, Mastery is being roughly 'quadrupled' [which might be a bit overkill now - hahaha, we bitch when it sucks and bitch when it's too good]. And apparently they are buffing one of our passive talents (my guess would be increasing offhand damage to 100% - that would buff both Mastery and overall damage).

So let's see how the numbers play out. Finally we get something! Everyone drink a shot!

But my gut instinct tells me Mastery might all of a sudden have become a little too good if it's being quadrupled as they say it is. We'll see til the numbers are released and the spreadsheets are updated. Good news though that we're not the forgotten red-headed stepchild after all.

[allrightythen]

thats enh shamans, thats been enh shamans since TBC.

[MiLLeR]

They said they want to bring combat up to mutilates damage.. Well thats great, now just up mutilates DMG first and we should be sweet.

[Bladivine]

Quadrupled yeah that's right xD

[Devilyaki]

Aren't there like 3 rogue classes now? Hunters have energy, paladins have combo points, feral have always been furry rogues, they need to make dps different, this is just lazy.

[Cygne]

They said they want to bring combat up to mutilates damage.. Well thats great, now just up mutilates DMG first and we should be sweet.

I'm surprised they seem content with overall rogue damage. I'm guessing none of them play rogues anymore.

[Instinctz]

I'm surprised they seem content with overall rogue damage. I'm guessing none of them play rogues anymore.

yeah not going to be any good when were finishing 10 or worse on dmg, might as well not bring us.

[Darios]

Hallelujah! Bout time they set it straight

[Sesshou]

Actually if they quadruple mastery for combat it should be at an ep of around 2.4 which is still below our "primary" stat. Also consider that things like haste (or any stat that gives you more chances to proc mastery) will increase in ep value because one of the things (mastery procs) they do is more valuable. It might happen, but I'm not entirely sure that it would cause an "omg reforge everything to mastery."

[Wries]

At least they'll do something.

Finally.

But what's up with the question being asked in the way of "mutilate damage is great"? What game are we playing?

[Cygne]

At least they'll do something.

Finally.

But what's up with the question being asked in the way of "mutilate damage is great"? What game are we playing?

That's exactly what I was thinking. He must be playing against fresh pugs.

[Varian]

goddamit! why did they have to fix it, now to raid we're gonna have to be combat again and its just a *puke* spec =(! I dun wanna be a leather wearing warrior! no blizz noooooo!

[Cygne]

So yea, where the hell are all the rogues at? Only like two questions asked while the rest where all "I'm a paladin, dk or warrior. Fix me or give me more stuff to make me even more awesome"

[Neichus]

Actually if they quadruple mastery for combat it should be at an ep of around 2.4 which is still below our "primary" stat. Also consider that things like haste (or any stat that gives you more chances to proc mastery) will increase in ep value because one of the things (mastery procs) they do is more valuable. It might happen, but I'm not entirely sure that it would cause an "omg reforge everything to mastery."

Well as they've said they don't think that they necessarily have to make all stats perfectly equal. As long as Mastery is in the realm of the other stats (and not below Strength) then you won't auto-avoid it on gear. Good gearing then is still about understanding what your particular spec wants and how to get the best set to maximize it, rather than "higher iLevel = upgrade."

[Mafic]

I am inclined to agree that mastery doesn't have to be the best stat as long as it is competitive with the other secondary stats. For combat, I don't think haste will be that desirable given how adrenaline rush currently works, and its synergy with restless blades.

Given that they intend to stick with combats mastery, I can see them making a slow off hand really desirable.

Bandit's Guile, as many suspected is to be a peak DPS talent to be used in conjunction with DPS cool downs and/or trinkets. But I still have concerns with combats ramp up time given you have now rupture, bandits guile, combo points, and deadly poison on a target. That is a lot of ramp up time, and a heavy penalty to target switches, which kind of cuts the new redirect talent at its knees. I suspect redirect will undergo a major re-vamp because I don't see it having any value in PVE or PVP at 85 IMVHO.

[Powerogue]

thank goodness, I was worried they'd just leave us in the dumps until cataclysm.

[phayze]

I think at this point we just have to be content that we are being revamped the next major beta build (i.e. likely this week sometime) and see what the actual buff will be. There are a lot of possibilities, but some fun new ones might be something like each ComPot proc adds a second to your SnD, or each Rupture tick has a chance of a combo point or something fun like that. I dunno, maybe change the SS glyph instead give a chance to increase SnD by 3 seconds for each crit. That would certainly even out our rotations a bit more I believe, make RvS a more natural inclusion, and the times when you're stuck at 5 pts because rupture and SnD are ending and you can't afford to evis, this allows you not feel you're completely wasting your SS cause you don't want to energy cap. Lots of interesting possibilities abound.

I also like the fact that they're making rogues a more "pay attention" class (you can argue they're trying to do that with the entire game for all classes). I mean we've always had that before to a certain degree, but it wasn't as noticeable except to the rogue themselves [for example knowing the right time to pop your KS. I, like many rogues, used the Trick or Treat mod, and I'd wait a second or two for the buff to pop it, or if I knew a trink cd was coming off before I'd pop AR/BF. {speaking purely pre-4.0.1 right now, but using them as examples of paying attention and waiting to maximize your dps}].

I like having to "time" your abilities and skills, not just as a rogue, but any class/role really.

Let's see what they give us. The "revamp of a passive skill" has me most interested and curious right now.

[Deleted]

I think at this point we just have to be content that we are being revamped the next major beta build (i.e. likely this week sometime) and see what the actual buff will be. There are a lot of possibilities, but some fun new ones might be something like each ComPot proc adds a second to your SnD, or each Rupture tick has a chance of a combo point or something fun like that. I dunno, maybe change the SS glyph instead give a chance to increase SnD by 3 seconds for each crit. That would certainly even out our rotations a bit more I believe, make RvS a more natural inclusion, and the times when you're stuck at 5 pts because rupture and SnD are ending and you can't afford to evis, this allows you not feel you're completely wasting your SS cause you don't want to energy cap. Lots of interesting possibilities abound.

I think something got lost in translation.

There is no revamp, they are perfectly happy with the current design. I was listening to a live audio stream, they are buffing the mastery and buffing one of our passive damage bonuses (the buff implied was a straight percentage increase). Also they said in the next beta build and didn't say whether it would make it onto live before Cata launches, so we may still be screwed for the next 6 weeks.

[phayze]

I think something got lost in translation.

There is no revamp, they are perfectly happy with the current design. I was listening to a live audio stream, they are buffing the mastery and buffing one of our passive damage bonuses (the buff implied was a straight percentage increase). Also they said in the next beta build and didn't say whether it would make it onto live before Cata launches, so we may still be screwed for the next 6 weeks.

Something definitely did get lost in the translation. Did you not read anything I wrote before replying? (that also includes the first post I did that started this thread. I kinda assume people read at least the original post and I apologize for not typing it out again for every reply).

[shadowboy]

I think something got lost in translation.

There is no revamp, they are perfectly happy with the current design. I was listening to a live audio stream, they are buffing the mastery and buffing one of our passive damage bonuses (the buff implied was a straight percentage increase). Also they said in the next beta build and didn't say whether it would make it onto live before Cata launches, so we may still be screwed for the next 6 weeks.

I'm perfectly ok with that. I can live with combat in it's present state knowing that it will be "fixed" when cata ships.