DW Frost vs. Unholy

[khvu]

I was raiding yesterday with an unholy death knight. I recent specc'd DW frost, and was unholy before. According to recount he was doing better than me in dps in most fights, but the gap is quite high(2-3k). I have better gear than he does. Does anyone seeing the same numbers or I'm just bad in my priority selection.



P.S. I don't have logs yet to back this claim up. Just an impression I had when looking at recount raiding late last night. Also I found that I do better dps on a dummy target with haste reforge than mastery. And I know dummy numbers mean nothing. Has anyone simmed with kahorie on that yet?

[Cpttrips]

i typically match or beat most unholy dk's ive run with as dw dk may just be your cd's and rot prio are you talking single target or overall?

single target boss fights im slightly ahead there as well but id say overall the two tree's are very close.

[-Rain]

unholy's strength nerfed by 5%. Frost is better, any argument against that is simply incorrect.

[LeBoxy]

Well this maybe irrelevant to your thread, but i found myself mowing people down during bg's yesterday when I recently speced to unholy. The "rotation" is a bit trickier then frost but nothing a quick 10-15 mins on the training dummy can't fix. It's funny though, I always see threads like these either pulling for unholy dps during raids/bg's, or the complete opposite where they are telling people to go for frost. It seems that both specs are very viable for both situations and just depends on the person behind the screen.

[valliant13]

two reasons i can see behind it. One you're bad as frost since you don't know the priority systems ect.

Second reason, you didn't reforge correctly.

The UH dk in my guild doesn't come close to me in damage or dps, since the bugs in dw frost got fixed. What weapons are you using vs him?

[Aeriel]

Yesterday I did 5min each on one of the dummies with DW Frost and 2H UH. Frost did about 500dps more (both in crappy gear). The thing is that there was a majorly counter-intuitive dps boost. Frost actually did better in UH Presence for me. My DK has been shelved for most of WotLK, so your mileage may vary, but try a variety of things. Things are definitely a bit odd right now for many classes.

[skylla05]

unholy's strength nerfed by 5%. Frost is better, any argument against that is simply incorrect.

The OP isn't asking which spec is better, he's asking for information as to why his supposed "better spec" isn't actually performing better. Obviously it's a player issue, but just blanketing "X SPEC IS BETTER" is retarded, and offers nothing to the discussion especially at this point in the game.

Also, I'm not going to claim I know a damn thing about DK's, but there's a lot more than the value of STR to consider when a spec is going to perform one way or the other. This narrowminded thinking is the product of a bad player.

[Krychek]

unholy's strength nerfed by 5%. Frost is better, any argument against that is simply incorrect.

Unholy's strength nerf only happend on beta not on live. Is this the beta forum?

[valliant13]

Yesterday I did 5min each on one of the dummies with DW Frost and 2H UH. Frost did about 500dps more (both in crappy gear). The thing is that there was a majorly counter-intuitive dps boost. Frost actually did better in UH Presence for me. My DK has been shelved for most of WotLK, so your mileage may vary, but try a variety of things. Things are definitely a bit odd right now for many classes.

that's the case on dummies, but in raids as DW you want to be frost pressence i've tested both on multiple fights in raids vs dummies and FP is better for DW and UP is better for 2H frost.

[khvu]

two reasons i can see behind it. One you're bad as frost since you don't know the priority systems ect.

Second reason, you didn't reforge correctly.

The UH dk in my guild doesn't come close to me in damage or dps, since the bugs in dw frost got fixed. What weapons are you using vs him?

In ICC overall I think I felt that it was awkward for me to follow the EJ recommended priority list. I found myself GCD locked quite a few time overall. He was just using a shadow's edge and I have Heroic Frost's Giant Cleaver and Blood Venom Blade. I think I'm just not used to it yet, and as a result being a bad DK on my part. Also I change crit --> mastery and hit --> mastery and leaving haste alone since I have 311 hit on my gear. I dunno what's best as a reforge I did somewhat follow the EJ flow chart.

[valliant13]

just follow the EJ guide, im in close to bis gear outside of weapons which is 2nd to bis and a couple other items as well. I'm popping 41% more frost damage from mastery 20.61 to be exact by the tooltip. It takes a bit to get used to the priority system since it isn't pretty much a set rotation like unholy.

What's your haste, mastery, crit, ap at?

[pouca]

Yesterday I did 5min each on one of the dummies with DW Frost and 2H UH. Frost did about 500dps more (both in crappy gear). The thing is that there was a majorly counter-intuitive dps boost. Frost actually did better in UH Presence for me. My DK has been shelved for most of WotLK, so your mileage may vary, but try a variety of things. Things are definitely a bit odd right now for many classes.

Since frost and unholy have quite different stat priorities and unless you have regemed and reforged between the tests, I think we cannot have any valid conclusion.

[khvu]

just follow the EJ guide, im in close to bis gear outside of weapons which is 2nd to bis and a couple other items as well. I'm popping 41% more frost damage from mastery 20.61 to be exact by the tooltip. It takes a bit to get used to the priority system since it isn't pretty much a set rotation like unholy.

What's your haste, mastery, crit, ap at?

my mastery is about 19.15 crit is about 27% and haste is 15% after reforge to mastery. AP is 5225 right now

[Rumpy]

Frost is defo ahead of Unholy atm - at least in my case, the Unholy Deathknight in my guild does come pretty close to my DPS, however I put that down to him having Shadowmourne.

[khvu]

I just really like frost playstyles, DW is my personal favorite ever since blizzard made it viable.

[valliant13]

my mastery is about 19.15 crit is about 27% and haste is 15% after reforge to mastery. AP is 5225 right now

how about expertise? sorry forgot to put that in the last question part

your crit is a little low it seems, Im 5600ish ap(forgot how much my armory is me in my chilblains spec for H LK)24.63 crit, and again 20.61 mastery i have 159 hit. You say you had like 311 hit I would reforge any and all hit first then crit. Also try and get closer to bis items even if its pre-heroic icc. Rocking 311 hit is way overkill pre-reforging. I think the only hit i ended up reforging was off my Bloodvenom Blades.

[khvu]

I'm expertise capped with 26 and right now have 198 hit with reforge.

[valliant13]

hmm the cap is supposedly 22 right now according to something i read but the tooltip is "bugged" apparently and shows it wrong. That's something im not willing to test out myself so take that with a grain of salt. You still have too much hit though by lots. also look at your pm's.

[khvu]

question on DW frost priority. I found myself doing BT Pillar HB-PS Obl. BS BS Dump as a starter intro then OBl. following with FS, and rarely hit BS unless i have two blood runes. Is that something you're suppose to do?

[alt-ithist]

hmm the cap is supposedly 22 right now according to something i read but the tooltip is "bugged" apparently and shows it wrong. That's something im not willing to test out myself so take that with a grain of salt. You still have too much hit though by lots. also look at your pm's.

23 actually, and its not a bug, just a side effect of them changing the values around.