Even more HP and Resilience inc.! GC Fails...

[Deleted]

We definitely want to increase survival time in PvP relative to what it was in Lich King. We are considering increasing resilience at 85 or even bumping health pools across the board even more.

I suppose increasing health pools even more will help, but I can't help but ask, why not just lower damage. In GC's initial statements about the pace of combat, it was said they want to increase health pools a lot as you level, increase damage slightly, and increase healing even less.

At some point, players at 85 will do the same damage they do at 80. That feels really lame for the leveling experience, especially for players who aren't interested in PvP or raiding.

So....they have (GC and his team) roughly quadrupled player HP from level 80-85 and they still can't get player damage under control. This is just a total failure from the game-designers and there's no justifying it. Even with 120.000 HP, 30-40k Mortal Strikes, Colossal Smash, Massive Shatter Combos, Instant Ice Lance damage, Elemental Shaman Burst etc. etc. will not be balanced.

What is the game-designers obsession with giving players excessive damage? Any single attack that take away more than 30% of a players HP, no matter how much setup it requires, will not be balanced.

If we want to get anywhere to where we were in Season 3 or 4, players would need to have around 200.000 HP. So almost twice as much as we have now.

But here's a new and original suggestion: LOWER PLAYER DAMAGE!

Because guess what. Nobody cares if they are doing 15k or 20k DPS, as long as the game is balanced.

/rant

I'm sorry to say but while I love GC as a person, especially with all his posts and explanations, his results in terms of game-balance speak for themselves (he took over after Burning Crusade). GC just doesn't have the right feel for the game he's designing.

[Deleted]

In before massive WoW fanboism

[Its Electric]

You're suggesting lowering player damage for the sake of PvP balance? Haven't they sacrificed enough to the PvP Jabba's? What is wrong with increasing resilience, exactly? Something that is totally unrelated to PvE would be great.

[Tetharion]

You're suggesting lowering player damage for the sake of PvP balance? Haven't they sacrificed enough to the PvP Jabba's? What is wrong with increasing resilience, exactly? Something that is totally unrelated to PvE would be great.

the pve aspect of the game would then be balanced around the lowered dps (i.e. 50% less dps = cut boss health in half), so THAT wouldn't be that much of a deal...

[Deleted]

I think resilience is the whole problem. If they made PVP gear just have more stamina like before and add something like "You deal 30% Less damage to any player character". It would fix so many problems. The damage wouldn't be too high but you would still lack the health if you were in PVE gear, so you would get PVP gear for the HP and mix and match.

There are so many problems and issues with resilience that have been discussed since it was put in the game. Every damn Season now its:
--Damage is high and bursty
==But resilience will fix it

PVP should be about doing BGs for fun and getting gear that you want so you can PVP seriously. One of the reasons there are so many leechers in PVP is because if they are full PVE geared and trying to get PVP gear they almost don't stand a chance unless they have a pocket healer with them.

Just put a "reduced PVP damage" effect and get rid of resilience.

[Feress]

Resil lowers incoming damage being done to you silly OP. Why would they need to lower damage if they already have a stat in place to do exactly that? If you're in pvp gear, pvping, you'll have more hp and less damage being done to you.

So you're asking for something that is already being done. Your post is void and a waste of everyones time kthx

[Its Electric]

the pve aspect of the game would then be balanced around the lowered dps, so it isn't that much of a deal...

Except that they would have to go back and scale everything they *just* made. Not to mention they'd have to go back to all previous content as well (I know, I know, leveling isn't such a huge deal) but still- that's a lot of work because people don't like resilience.

It's implemented, it can be tuned to work, get over it.

[Deleted]

Just add another healthpoints pool called "combatpoints (CP)" which is only for PvP reasons.

There you'll have a perfect extra to tweak.[COLOR="red"]

Except that they would have to go back and scale everything they *just* made. Not to mention they'd have to go back to all previous content as well (I know, I know, leveling isn't such a huge deal) but still- that's a lot of work because people don't like resilience.

It's implemented, it can be tuned to work, get over it.

Yeah, and if they actually used their experience gathered from S1 till now, they could already tune the numbers before starting to mess things up again.

[Sinuhe]

the pve aspect of the game would then be balanced around the lowered dps (i.e. 50% less dps = cut boss health in half), so THAT wouldn't be that much of a deal...

So what you're saying is they should now lower dps and then re-tune all pve encounters to that when they just can add more resilience... Did you actually stop to think before you wrote that, it has lot more to deal with then just boss health.

[sicness]

the pve aspect of the game would then be balanced around the lowered dps (i.e. 50% less dps = cut boss health in half), so THAT wouldn't be that much of a deal...

Ok... so instead of adjusting resilience so players take less damage they should lower player damage and then adjust all encounters accordingly. Much better and much easier!

OP: What do you suggest that would actually work besides increasing resilience? What the guy I quoted suggests so it takes over twice as much work to actually balance?

[redmund]

You seem to be forgetting that the expansion is still in beta, not live. It's still in development. Things change in development. Especially things like pvp balance. It's also a whole lot easier and faster to tweak some health and resilience values upwards than it is to lower coefficients and multipliers across 10 classes and 25 damage dealing specs (including the tanks here).

If Cataclysm went live and they then hotfixed in a resil/hp change like the one being discussed, then yes, it would qualify as a failure, but this is an iterative change to a product that is still in development. Chill out.

[fizikz]

stop suggesting getting rid of resil to fix the problem. that just leads to a bunch of pve heroes owning the pvp scene: (see shadowmourne, but worse)

resil is not the end-all be all though, as low level balance and pre-85 balance is extremely fucked up without it. they should just cut damage by a % all over instead of trying to rebalance everything (resil, player hp, mob hp, etc) fit to the ridiculous damage increases.

[Feress]

Ok... so instead of adjusting resilience so players take less damage they should lower player damage and then adjust all encounters accordingly. Much better and much easier!

No not at all, rescaling every mob and every players health and damage is NOT easier then adding a few resil points onto gear.

[sicness]

No not at all, rescaling every mob and every players health and damage is NOT easier then adding a few resil points onto gear.

I was being sarcastic. Sorry, thought that was obvious. :/

[eightohfive]

.....Here is the idea behind it. Make HP equal through out the classes and equal through pvp gear and pve gear. But wait, pve gear has more burst and so everyone would just get that, SO they give pvp gear a VERY GOOD PVP stat called resilience that helps with alot of the damage so that players who pvp in pve gear will still be much easier to kill like they were before. The health pool changes are there because they want HEALERS (there has been ALOT of healing changes this is part of that) to have to use multiple heals to top some one off not just one big heal or medium heal for any amount of damage someone takes.

[Feress]

I was being sarcastic. Sorry, thought that was obvious. :/

\

This is the internet, you're typing, and the internet is full of idiots. Might wanna make it more obivous,because we cant read your mind so you come across as stupid.

[Suilenroc]

They should lower player damage in order to balance the entire game out, not just PvP. There should not be such an enormous increase in character power over just five levels. Numbers are so huge now that it's ridiculous and distracting.

[Tetharion]

So what you're saying is they should now lower dps and then re-tune all pve encounters to that when they just can add more resilience... Did you actually stop to think before you wrote that, it has lot more to deal with then just boss health.

i didn't say they should do that now, i know it would be an immense task to retune all of the encounters at this time.
something like this should have came up in the planing phase of cataclysm, and they should have learned from the past Seasons...

[Whisperawr]

.....Here is the idea behind it. Make HP equal through out the classes and equal through pvp gear and pve gear. But wait, pve gear has more burst and so everyone would just get that, SO they give pvp gear a VERY GOOD PVP stat called resilience that helps with alot of the damage so that players who pvp in pve gear will still be much easier to kill like they were before. The health pool changes are there because they want HEALERS (there has been ALOT of healing changes this is part of that) to have to use multiple heals to top some one off not just one big heal or medium heal for any amount of damage someone takes.

Irrelevant: I'm surprised that name wasn't taken.

I'm hugely disappointed in Cata PvP from what it's looking like so far. We expected them to learn from their mistakes in WotLK and go back to how BC arena was. They did the complete opposite and went on increasing damage even when they know that their game is going downhill. They themselves stated that the cc needs to be more focused on, not the damage. By doing all this, they're digging their whole deeper and they need to think simpler.

[redmund]

They should lower player damage in order to balance the entire game out, not just PvP. There should not be such an enormous increase in character power over just five levels. Numbers are so huge now that it's ridiculous and distracting.

Distracting? Really? Numbers are just numbers, they need to increase by a sufficient amount so that it's not viable to walk into end game expansion content with gear from the previous expansion and steamroll everything, like what happened in Wrath.