1. #6401
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    I think trying to compare sexual orientation to race isnt accurate at all. (I dont mean to open Pandora's box this comment but) Last I checked people werent born out of the womb gay, you cant look at someone and instantly see they are gay. You are however born black, you can also see if someone is black. By hating on someone because of their race alone is hating something they were born with and can never change, being gay is not the same.
    since you can't actually prove any of the things you just said, and since they don't really fit the scope of this thread, lets move on

    education can't fight bigotry on its own, whether it be against sexual preference or against people's manner of speech...

  2. #6402
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    since you can't actually prove any of the things you just said, and since they don't really fit the scope of this thread, lets move on

    education can't fight bigotry on its own, whether it be against sexual preference or against people's manner of speech...
    What? Education is all you can do to fight bigotry. The religious zealots (and Jibjabb apparently) who think gay people are making a "choice" to be gay would not be able to take that position if they were educated enough to know that what turns someone on sexually is not a choice. If Culliver was educated enough to know that being gay does not make you soft then he wouldn't have made those statements.

    Knowledge is the only thing that can change the way people think.

  3. #6403
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    We had a openly gay (technically bi) guy on the wrestling team and he would frequently comment on other guy's naked bodies and try and slap their ass in the shower and basically do a bunch of other stuff that is way crossing the line. He was also like the biggest dude so not many people can openly step up to him (Plus who is gonna want to fight while naked). I highly doubt most gay guys are like that yet even still, its people like that which are driving the insecurity of these athletes.
    Ya that is definitely less of a gay thing and more of that guy just being a total douche king. But ya the locker room is a big concern for guys because they don't want no gay guy looking at their dick. Insecure idiots.

    The basis I'd make about race vs sexual orientation (and we totally disagree about the born part it seems), is that a couple decades ago the exact, literally EXACT, same arguments that people use against gays in both sports and society were being used against racial minorities.

    Note: This is a deep topic with lots of passionate opinions. Please avoid being overly harsh in your reactions to fellow users who you may disagree with.

  4. #6404
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    What? Education is all you can do to fight bigotry. The religious zealots (and Jibjabb apparently) who think gay people are making a "choice" to be gay would not be able to take that position if they were educated enough to know that what turns someone on sexually is not a choice. If Culliver was educated enough to know that being gay does not make you soft then he wouldn't have made those statements.

    Knowledge is the only thing that can change the way people think.
    what I meant was higher education in response to conscript, the type of education to fight bigotry has to begin much earlier, facts don't much matter if you have no interest in receiving them

    if the foundation is poor then there isn't much to be built on, that type of thinking has to be cultivated early

  5. #6405
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    what I meant was higher education in response to conscript, the type of education to fight bigotry has to begin much earlier, facts don't much matter if you have no interest in receiving them

    if the foundation is poor then there isn't much to be built on, that type of thinking has to be cultivated early
    Ya its a culture thing just like so many other similar issues. I'd just prefer that if you are going to be a bigot you use proper English and real sentences to do it. Then again, South Carolina probably does actively teach Bigotry 101 as part of every curriculum (suck it Gamecocks).

  6. #6406
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    American Football and the NFL are going to be one of last places to "convert" to equality. Football is as Nuclear-Family-50's-America as milkshakes, Elvis and Communist scares. It won't be until an entire generation dies off that we'll see significant movement toward equality in the NFL and football in general.
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  7. #6407
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    what I meant was higher education in response to conscript, the type of education to fight bigotry has to begin much earlier, facts don't much matter if you have no interest in receiving them

    if the foundation is poor then there isn't much to be built on, that type of thinking has to be cultivated early
    Disagreed. Racists don't stay racist forever. I grew up in one of the reddest states out there and had some friends who were pretty damn racist in high school. But as they got older they discovered rap music, and after connecting with black artists they are no longer racist. They probably still have some prejudices, but they no longer hate an entire race for no reason.

    One day there will be a gay rapper or athlete who will have the same effect. Til then, education.

  8. #6408
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    Ehh I don't want to get political in this sports thread so I'm not touching the story about a player from probably the most liberal and well known pro gay city in the U.S bashing gays /SMH.

    So I was going to wait till Sunday to give out my score from the game but ill go ahead now and give it out.
    Ravens 31- 49ers 24

  9. #6409
    Ill just end my thoughts on the topic saying, there have been people who were gay and switched and vice versa. It is something a person can decide on their own to act upon even if desires are heightened for them. For example typically when I see other hot girls I can have a desire to want to have sex with them, whether I do or dont is my own decision, and if I act upon that is what classifies it as cheating/adultery not the thoughts itself. The feelings are there but I havent acted upon it. Being gay is not some genetic mutation, even straight kids arent born straight. Most kids dont even like the opposite sex, it is something we eventually grow into and decide that we like and want to pursue. Regardless of "how" it happens it isnt an excuse for them to be hated/disliked I completely agree there. And I still dont think anything homosexuals went through is even 1/10th of the struggle blacks went through and various other races.

    For the game Im going to go with Ravens 27 - 49ers 17. Ray Rice becomes the unsung hero having a huge day and being able to keep the 49ers off the field when they want to get the ball back. Flacco plays ok but they win so now ESPN starts asking us whether hes one of the top QBs in the game and everybody proceeds to change the channel out of disgust. Kaepernick has 2 big turnovers (either fumbles or interceptions) that really take the life out of the team.

  10. #6410
    Herald of the Titans Vetali's Avatar
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    17-14 ravens win.

  11. #6411
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Well, I found this amusing http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...0405--nfl.html

    Hell, even it wasn't in New Orleans, I'd bet there would be some places where Goddell would be refused service.

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  12. #6412
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Well, I found this amusing http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...0405--nfl.html

    Hell, even it wasn't in New Orleans, I'd bet there would be some places where Goddell would be refused service.
    Forgive me if Im wrong but wasnt Roger Goodell the main person who was campaigning to keep the Saints in New Orleans when they were considering a move? Seems pretty short sighted to now hate the man, if it wasnt for him you may not have even had a 2012 season to lose in the first place.

  13. #6413
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Ill just end my thoughts on the topic saying, there have been people who were gay and switched and vice versa. It is something a person can decide on their own to act upon even if desires are heightened for them. For example typically when I see other hot girls I can have a desire to want to have sex with them, whether I do or dont is my own decision, and if I act upon that is what classifies it as cheating/adultery not the thoughts itself. The feelings are there but I havent acted upon it. Being gay is not some genetic mutation, even straight kids arent born straight. Most kids dont even like the opposite sex, it is something we eventually grow into and decide that we like and want to pursue. Regardless of "how" it happens it isnt an excuse for them to be hated/disliked I completely agree there. And I still dont think anything homosexuals went through is even 1/10th of the struggle blacks went through and various other races.

    For the game Im going to go with Ravens 27 - 49ers 17. Ray Rice becomes the unsung hero having a huge day and being able to keep the 49ers off the field when they want to get the ball back. Flacco plays ok but they win so now ESPN starts asking us whether hes one of the top QBs in the game and everybody proceeds to change the channel out of disgust. Kaepernick has 2 big turnovers (either fumbles or interceptions) that really take the life out of the team.
    Dude... no. You don't get to choose what gives you a boner. Little kids aren't sexually attracted to the other sex because they don't have sex hormones yet. That's completely different from a bisexual adult switching teams. People can switch back and forth because it's possible to be sexually attracted to both guys and girls and those people are experimenting (although people generally learn which is their preference). Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

    I've got Ravens winning. I don't know the score, but I'll agree with Jib that Kaepernick has a costly turnover at the end of the game.

  14. #6414
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    Disagreed. Racists don't stay racist forever.
    I didn't say they do

    and Tagliabue was commissioner during Katrina, Goodell was involved, calling him the "main person campaigning to keep the Saints in New Orleans" would not be entirely accurate, though his role should be recognized

    that said I still hate the guy
    Last edited by draynay; 2013-02-02 at 02:06 AM.

  15. #6415
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    I don't really want to see the topic continue here, but it only gets worse for San Francisco.

    Doesn't look good when the players are denying making a video for pro gay rights.

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  16. #6416
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    Haha man, that idiot had make that tweet right before the Superbowl. Gotta imagine how happy Harbaugh must be.
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  17. #6417
    Bloodsail Admiral Sykol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Ill just end my thoughts on the topic saying, there have been people who were gay and switched and vice versa. It is something a person can decide on their own to act upon even if desires are heightened for them. For example typically when I see other hot girls I can have a desire to want to have sex with them, whether I do or dont is my own decision, and if I act upon that is what classifies it as cheating/adultery not the thoughts itself. The feelings are there but I havent acted upon it. Being gay is not some genetic mutation, even straight kids arent born straight. Most kids dont even like the opposite sex, it is something we eventually grow into and decide that we like and want to pursue. Regardless of "how" it happens it isnt an excuse for them to be hated/disliked I completely agree there. And I still dont think anything homosexuals went through is even 1/10th of the struggle blacks went through and various other races.
    So you're telling us that gay people choose to be gay, and have since the dawn of time? That at some point in time, someone sees all the hardships any kind of minority goes through, and decides "that's for me!" Come on. You wouldn't have chosen to be born black 100 years ago, and you sure as hell wouldn't choose to be gay even now. Why would anyone willingly put themselves in harm's way, and possibly be ostracized by their friends and family and community, just for the sake of a little penis? As far as "switching" goes, there are people who are either bisexual or pansexual or other, and you can't just lump them in as "gay." Furthermore, those people you're probably talking about such as Elton John have always been gay, but either tried to hide/fight it because, seriously, who's gonna choose to be gay in this day and age?

    As far as struggles go, even taking into account closeted homosexuals and the fact you generally can't pick a gay out of a crowd, gay people as a whole are possibly the most universally feared/hated/attacked group in the history of the world. There are at least eight countries still to this day where homosexuality is punishable by death, and various states and regions within other countries that maintain the death penalty for homosexuality. That's not even counting human history before we became "modernized." Then you have the military with its Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and the USA as a whole refusing to recognize gay marriage, and you can easily draw parallels between the treatment of homosexuals now and the treatment of blacks not even 60 or 70 years ago. I'm not even going to bring up the amount of hate crimes that still take place in the Western world. And with all that, you're going to tell me it's a choice?

    But just to clarify here, I'm not comparing the level of hardships between one group and another. I'm simply stating that being gay isn't all rainbows and sunshine, and that people who have gone through similar struggles should be able to respect what's happening to someone else in that situation and not do to them (gays) what was done to them (blacks, et cetera). Moving on to anecdotal evidence now:

    I live in Alberta, which is basically Canada's version of the South. Homosexuality, especially in small areas, isn't looked kindly upon. I'm a very straight male who has no physical, sexual, or otherwise "gay" attraction to other men. I've known since I was six, and possibly even before, that I liked girls. My brother, who was raised with me in the exact same way, is as gay as the day is long. He's fabulous and I love him, but he has to stay closeted. He has to, otherwise he wouldn't be able to find or keep work, and people that act like his friends wouldn't be any longer. He has to hide who he is because of society as a whole, and uninformed people like you (who, while you may not hate gays or mean any malice, believe and spread ignorance to others). He could be killed because people think it's his choice to enjoy a fine penis now and again, and that all he's thinking about when he looks at another man is being inside him.

    I'm going to break something to all the straight guys here who think they're gay-man-catnip: most gay guys don't want to do you. Sorry, but it's true. Now, I know it's hard to believe, because most men are pretty conceited, but it's true. Not every girl wants to jump you, despite guys in general thinking they could get any woman they want, and in that same vein not every gay guy wants you. You're safe in the locker room. In fact, you're much less likely to get your ass slapped by a gay guy after a game of football, or towel-whipped in the showers. Why? Because most gay men are either trying to hide who they are to the point of not engaging in anything "gay," or don't want to make someone feel uncomfortable like they're almost constantly forced to.

    As far as choice goes, I did once ask my brother if it was possible at all for him to like girls, or even fake it, just so he could be with someone. He asked me if I'd be able to do that with a guy. I couldn't, at least not for any length of time to make it believable, and that's in a hypothetical realm where heterosexuality would be considered abnormal. Even if the roles were reversed, I doubt I could fake being gay. I'd want to, because self-preservation, but I honestly don't think I could do it.

    Now, I think you're probably a pretty decent guy with some potentially misguided views. I don't blame you for that. However, those views can be very damaging when used by the wrong people. Anyone who is against homosexuality either claims it's a choice or an illness, and in both versions it's an abomination. They either want to cure or eliminate it, and it's not something that can be cured because it's not something that's wrong. I'm not trying to "enlighten" you or change your mind, only you can do that, but I do hope that some of what I've said makes sense to you.

    Aaaaanyway, that was far longer than I'd intended, but I really, really wanted to try and get my point across as best I could. I'm done with it now because I think that's as far as my argument can go without it becoming petty or personal or full of anecdotal evidence. So, football. What are the odds on Flacco looking like balls but still winning? Because they've been pretty high all season. I got saddled with him on my fantasy team this season and just kept laughing because no one expected him to do anything but be Flacco.

    I'm guessing it's gonna look like a close game for the first half, maybe 14-14 or 17-14 Baltimore going into the third quarter, and then the Ravens just pull away with it to wind up winning 31-24. Poor SF misses out on another Super Bowl ring.

  18. #6418
    Quote Originally Posted by Sykol View Post
    I live in Alberta, which is basically Canada's version of the South. Homosexuality, especially in small areas, isn't looked kindly upon. I'm a very straight male who has no physical, sexual, or otherwise "gay" attraction to other men. I've known since I was six, and possibly even before, that I liked girls. My brother, who was raised with me in the exact same way, is as gay as the day is long. He's fabulous and I love him, but he has to stay closeted. He has to, otherwise he wouldn't be able to find or keep work, and people that act like his friends wouldn't be any longer. He has to hide who he is because of society as a whole, and uninformed people like you (who, while you may not hate gays or mean any malice, believe and spread ignorance to others). He could be killed because people think it's his choice to enjoy a fine penis now and again, and that all he's thinking about when he looks at another man is being inside him.
    I was initially going to write something a lot worse and more descriptive but this is about NFL and I'll keep big arguments out of it and refrain from any name calling. My main comment left is more of I believe each person is in power over their own life. None of us are powerless to anything, our feelings, our wishes, our upbringing. Things can help shape us but we ultimately choose who and what we are. This isnt necessarily about sexuality but any aspect in life, nothing is predetermined, nothing is set in stone. How we act is of our own volition. And as much as I think people should respect the rights and feelings of the gay community, people should also respect the beliefs that others have which might not agree, rather than throwing out insults of ignorance, bigotry, and intolerance which ironically by refusing to even see their view is the very definition of intolerance and just comes across as hypocritical.

    With that said Im kind've surprised everybody here is on the Ravens. Makes me a little uneasy on picking them.

  19. #6419
    Miss Doctor Lady Bear Sunshine's Avatar
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    Please end the discussion on homosexuality except as directly related to the NFL; it's a forbidden topic on the forum for a reason.

    Let's get back to sports.

  20. #6420
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    everything that needed to be said about it as it relates to the NFL was already said, so hopefully folks can take it to private messages or whatever

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