so why is zg being removed again?

[zingar]

all i read (blue) was that only a few guys used it to farm the mounts and that it was better off as a leveling area. cant really get why they cant keep both though?

also, isnt that the case with EVERY non current top level raid?
whats the difference between ZG and AQ20 or AQ40, SSC, Hyjal, MC, BT, BWL, SWP and TK?
all of them are normally run just for the achievs, rep, or a crappy chance at some legendary, or mount or whatever.

come to think of it, ZG is actually one of the old raids that is run more often (since most classes can solo the bosses there) so that is even more reason to not remove it..

but anyways i really fail to see the point of removing ZG. maybe they could just remove the mounts if theyre not happy with that? but still it doesnt make any sense.

[Adaeus Lightrin]

It is an open roofed raid, so people would fly into it with the flying in Azeroth if they didn't change it.

[Squike]

because northern stranglethorn lacked space to quest interestingly so they wanted more. Solution - Remove ZG

[Bailine57]

ZG is being removed because it has no place in cataclysm and it is way out of date. It would also be rather strange when the world is being kind of destroyed for one little pocket of trolls in stranglethorn, which by the way is one of the more changed zones, to be the same way they have been for the past 6 years.

[Alex86el]

It is an open roofed raid, so people would fly into it with the flying in Azeroth if they didn't change it.

i hope ur being sarcastic... otherwise /facedesk *_*

[eternalwhitemoon]

To make you weep, that's why.

In seriousness, STV needed a better questline (oh god not more pages!), and recycling the raid area is a good way to do that.

[zingar]

well they could move it somewhere i guess , some god forsaken islands to the west of stv :/ but i didnt know that it was occupying space

[eternalwhitemoon]

well they could move it somewhere i guess , some god forsaken islands to the west of stv :/ but i didnt know that it was occupying space

It's also six years old. It's time for Mandokir/Thekal/Hakkar to retire. Poor guys have probably gone through billions of bandages by now.

In case you haven't been there, there's tons of statues and stairs and I believe a bridge or two before you enter the instance proper. So yes, it takes up space in the game world.

[Weerra]

ZG corresponds with a wide outdoor area, which they are using for questing.
They could leave it and move portal to somewhere, but it would be just freaking weird to pass those gate one way and arrive in questing are, pass through something else and arrive in a completely different place. Of just go into the solid mountain and arrive in a big outdoor zone.

[Scot]

ZG is being removed because it has no place in cataclysm and it is way out of date. It would also be rather strange when the world is being kind of destroyed for one little pocket of trolls in stranglethorn, which by the way is one of the more changed zones, to be the same way they have been for the past 6 years.

The same thing can be said for every pre WotLK raid. Hell, everything but ICC is outdated and useless save for the dumb weekly quests.

Also confused on why they are removing the mounts, but providing an alternate way to get the turtle book.

[russykh]

The design of ZG fits really nicely into the area and its a really nice looking area to just wander around. I hope that they scale the mobs in there down to the appropriate levels and keep as many of them in place as they can. Yeah its a shame about the mounts, but I dont think they really had any bearing on the decision.

The thing is, people (as we've seen) will argue that "you've got rid of this so why leave these" as if that has any bearing on it. They simply had the idea that it would make a good questing area, so they changed it. Because you change one doesnt mean you have to change all. If they thought they could be better used another way they probably would change them, but they decided it was unnecessary.

As Zarhym said "we made a design decision you dont like so you roll that train of thought off the mountain to try and make a point". Just get that's all it is. There doesnt have to be any more reason other than they think it will make the game better in some way. What they do with the the other raids is irrelevant.

[Andymion]

What levels would ZG quests be for? Would it be a follow up to STV?

[Airlick]

The same thing can be said for every pre WotLK raid. Hell, everything but ICC is outdated and useless save for the dumb weekly quests.

Also confused on why they are removing the mounts, but providing an alternate way to get the turtle book.

And what should they have done? Make a few dailies so that everyone in the world would have ZG mounts? And turtle book is just minor thing that's barely even noticeable, can't see an issue.

And no, I don't like that mounts are being removed, mostly because I don't have them :P But at least they won't be a new Bronze Drake.

[Scot]

The design of ZG fits really nicely into the area and its a really nice looking area to just wander around. I hope that they scale the mobs in there down to the appropriate levels and keep as many of them in place as they can. Yeah its a shame about the mounts, but I dont think they really had any bearing on the decision.

The thing is, people (as we've seen) will argue that "you've got rid of this so why leave these" as if that has any bearing on it. They simply had the idea that it would make a good questing area, so they changed it. Because you change one doesnt mean you have to change all. If they thought they could be better used another way they probably would change them, but they decided it was unnecessary.

As Zarhym said "we made a design decision you dont like so you roll that train of thought off the mountain to try and make a point". Just get that's all it is. There doesnt have to be any more reason other than they think it will make the game better in some way. What they do with the the other raids is irrelevant.

Its difficult for me to accept that the decision to make the area into a questing area to be experienced for only a few short levels (in a game so obviously geared towards the end game nowadays) at the cost of some of the coolest mounts in the game will actually make the game better. Given their track record of "making the game better", I think that its an entirely legitimate concern.

[Racia]

ZG is being removed because it has no place in cataclysm and it is way out of date. It would also be rather strange when the world is being kind of destroyed for one little pocket of trolls in stranglethorn, which by the way is one of the more changed zones, to be the same way they have been for the past 6 years.

Since when is ZG removed? Its being turned into a 5 man dungeon instead. So if it fits or not doesnt really matter, since its comming back.

[Scot]

And what should they have done? Make a few dailies so that everyone in the world would have ZG mounts? And turtle book is just minor thing that's barely even noticeable, can't see an issue.

And no, I don't like that mounts are being removed, mostly because I don't have them :P But at least they won't be a new Bronze Drake.

I don't know what they could have done or what they plan on doing with the tome. They share the same purpose: to be aesthetically pleasing. You can get tons of other mounts that go the same speed (and with flying in azeroth ground mounts are even less useful) just as you can get other types of polymorph to serve the same purpose. These just look cooler.

[eternalwhitemoon]

Since when is ZG removed? Its being turned into a 5 man dungeon instead. So if it fits or not doesnt really matter, since its comming back.

Keep up to date with your Blues. Zarhym discussed it a little while ago and specifically called it an outdoor questing zone if I recall.

[Dion04]

What I find more amazing is at level 60, did you ever expect to be able to solo these bosses?
I certainly did not.

[Bisso]

Its difficult for me to accept that the decision to make the area into a questing area to be experienced for only a few short levels (in a game so obviously geared towards the end game nowadays) at the cost of some of the coolest mounts in the game will actually make the game better. Given their track record of "making the game better", I think that its an entirely legitimate concern.

with the removal of ZG, those mounts become even more the coolest mounts in the game. So start farming and you will be fine. I got all I went for already, pet, mounts, exalted. Im done with that freakin raid already.

[Conzar]

It isn't being made into a dungeon.

I don't know why they came to the decision to remove it, but they are, and they have said that it's just going to be an open area. My guess is the bosses there will be scaled down to STV level and about half of them removed.

Personally, I'd like them to remove the limitation of needing 2 people to form a raid, and maybe have some achievements for soloing raids.

Also, I beleive the reasoning behind removing the Turtle book, and putting in another method of getting it (this is personal conjecture) is because some of this expansion is set underwater, so it might be logical to find it in those areas.