What if Frost-Mages go live?

[Quehn]

Ok this is from a Disc priest point of view.

Most OP atm
1. Feral Druid
2. Warriors
3. Death Knights
4. Frost Mage.

Silence silence silence, Mastery sucks, shields sucks, output damage sucks.

Healing myself, jk silence..

And Im talking about the current 85 Content on the Beta.

Obviously you don't seem to notice how well a Mage can lock you down, when Mages are supposed to counter melee and not ranged and especially not healing casters.

[Gilgemesh]

They did just nerf fingers of frost proc rate... its a start

[Deleted]

I remember getting trained by every double melee team in arena with no chance to do anything concidering I played with a resto shaman healer... good times maybe for once I can actually hit something back now. On the other and if they left me alone I would drop anything from full to 0 in a bloodlust. I would really like they could find something between the getting raped in group and facepalming everything when left alone

[haxartus]

I played some battlegrounds and dueled some mages a few hours ago on the beta and I can say that mages are in a hell of a lot better place than you seem to think they are. As a ret paladin a frost mage can kill me with the use of 3 spells. Blink, Spell Steal, and Ice Lance.

My beta character has over 3k resilience, roughly a 31% damage reduction and frost mage Ice lance hits me for 6-7k non crit. It might take you 15-25 seconds to kill me but then again, who gives a damn when I cant get within 30 yards of you.

Everything that I said is true. You can check it. The people seem to think that the Frost mages are buffed but they aren't. All of these nerfs are true. The fact that we can still kill people has nothing to do with that. We aren't more powerful at 85 than we were in 3.3.5. We are OP at 80 in 4.0.1. but not in the beta at 85. There are several different problems with the class in the beta that don't exist on live as 80.
Also, how much HP do you have with the Paladin ? Because you're complaining about 6k Ice Lances, which should be like 5% of your HP.
Most of the posts in this kind of threads are completely wrong. For example the person that said that they should buff Frostbolt and nerf Ice Lance. This will actually be more powerful than now. Several times more powerful. So they want a nerf and they are asking for a buff. If you don't understand why, check what Time Warp and Icy Veins do and what is the Frostbolt cast speed with them.

[arioc]

People complain about frost mages when rogues and warlocks have been around for like 6 years already, doing worse?

It's just that frost mages aren't so skill-capped anymore. They're great at taking out bad players.

I guess you havnt played warlock in arenas, they get kinda train wrecked by most melee, Id like you to play against a 2,3k rated warrior with shadowmourne or just a rogue. Its not as faceroll as you think. A good frost mage can control you the whole game without you doing shit.

Than we also have that fact that warlock rely a lot on their pets. So if the pet dies and you cant instant summon him, your screwed.

[Spoonman]

I dont think Frost mages are that OP

[Shampox]

ITT: People complaining about balancing more at 80 than at 85.

80 doesn't matter anymore, and you still have a month to figure that out before it's made blatantly obvious that it doesn't. I hope you'll be able to figure that out by then.

[Deleted]

IF they go live. There is nothing you can do about it besides spamming Blizz with mail. If they don't. Cheers?

Why even bring the subject up? Classes get buffed there and nerfed here and vice versa. If they go live, it's only for a very short period.

You might as well spam blizz now to actually make sure they don't go live... Go on! Shush!

[maxmoaz]

They're fully aware of the OP classes, I have no doubt it's a strategy they use to keep the fanbase active. By making classes OP in turns players will reroll op which will keep them busy for a loong time to come. Retired players may also come back once they hear about their class being OP as sheet.

Proof Blizzard is fully aware:
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=35575#screenshots Isimode
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=35576#screenshots Faesrol

[haxartus]

I will ask again. What exactly is the problem with the Frost mages at 85 ??? Ice Lance crits for like 10% of the total HP of a PvP geared player. Frostbolt for 15%. It's less than it were in 3.3.5 . Also most of our anti-caster defenses are gone and we have less crit chance on Frozen that we had for the past 5 years. Plus the fact that the mana cost of the spells is insane and you can't spam anything for a long time. Especially Spellsteal.

[pimpdaddy]

ITT: People complaining about balancing more at 80 than at 85.

80 doesn't matter anymore, and you still have a month to figure that out before it's made blatantly obvious that it doesn't. I hope you'll be able to figure that out by then.

Agree.

[Dexiefy]

This is unacceptable and reminds me of DKs/Rets in 3.0. How can a designer choose to ignore balance feedback over such an extensive period of time?

w8, what? designer? you mean marine biologist who mains mage and alts rogue and most likely plays rmp in arena?

besides frost is op since tbc, so its nothing new to me
Sick burst, insane survival, perks like shorter magic debuff duration or 15 sec stun removal ,ms, their mana pretty much never ends, their control over enemy is just beyond belief, their crit chance gets tripled whenever you get frozen(who cares you are frozen 50% of the time if not more) and cold snap to always be able to "outskill" his oponent just because he has more cooldowns to use (i rly hope that blizz will finally remove preperation, cold snap and readiness). I have nothing against fire or arcane mages but frost is pure easymode since the beggining of burning crusade.


also i love how all dk's and warrs got their self healing nerfed but rogues recuperate is untouched... cause healing 30-61%(depends on imp recuperate and 20%+ heal talent) of max hp over 30 secs is balanced right? especially when he doesnt have to be in combat or w/e, they just use it, vanish, sap you once you get out of combat(with their 129837214589237 yard long hands)and heal to full.

I will ask again. What exactly is the problem with the Frost mages at 85 ??? Ice Lance crits for like 10% of the total HP of a PvP geared player. Frostbolt for 15%. It's less than it were in 3.3.5 . Also most of our anti-caster defenses are gone and we have less crit chance on Frozen that we had for the past 5 years. Plus the fact that the mana cost of the spells is insane and you can't spam anything for a long time. Especially Spellsteal.

Umm on beta frost mage mana rarely ends, your crit chance is pretty much the same as it was (aka op, its like unrelenting assault giving warr triple crit with all attacks whenever his target is hamstringed, hell it wouldnt even be so op as ilvl 359 premade war with shout has like max 7% crit.. not 20 as mage) since resillience doesnt reduce crit chance anymore. O also what anti caster defenses you lost? you got your frost and fire ward merged into 1 that also grants you protection against arcane dmg. Thats the only defense against casters that you lost and even that is questionable as you gained protection against arcane dmg. You also lost frostbite(which was just as balanced against melee as mace stun was against casters and just like amce stun, shouldnt exist in the first place) but you got 8 sec cd 4 sec root aoe non reflectable ability that also slows for like 80%...
So what exactly did you lose? Cause i see only benefits here + you got time warp aka i win button as it increases your dps by 30%...it should ahve been warr/hunter/dk ability as those classes dont benefit from haste as much as any caster does.

So rather accept the fact that you are playing class that hardly takes any skill and is op beyond belief for quite some time now (and on beta is the same shit) instead of trying to defend its op status just so you can hide how bad pvp'er you really are.

ITT: People complaining about balancing more at 80 than at 85.

80 doesn't matter anymore, and you still have a month to figure that out before it's made blatantly obvious that it doesn't. I hope you'll be able to figure that out by then.

Flash news, on beta frost mage is almost as op as on live atm =] Just so let you know

[Hitori]

I doubt the nerfbat will strike Mages that hard. Since vanilla they hard-counter melees without any effort and yet they gave them more utility to escape melees, in change they took for example mutilate Rogues one snare-remover (no prep anymore, no 2nd vanish, you're doomed to stay in the fourth nova if every CD was ready).

They’ll nerf them just to stay on top against most classes as always.

As a Rogue my backstab critted for 6k yesterday on plate (85 premade). Mages main-attack hits for 15k+ with icelance or frostbolt on every armor-class. On top they got more roots and defense than a melee could escape. 8 secs on a AE-snare, 30 on an 8 sec stun and they even get more utility to turn melees into dummies. Some Mages admit that even deepfreeze is a toy which they don't need.

But well, I've got a cool idea: Give them an amazing AE-iceblock-trap. In my opinion one of the best pvp-tools a class can get in Cata. Compared to my smokebomb with small radius and if the enemy steps into the smoke it becomes useless.

1vs1 doesn't count that much yeah, but no class should be able to just use 50% of their CDs to hard-counter another class. As Rogue I know that I'll have to blow up all my CDs against almost every class I encounter to finish them off.

[haxartus]

Umm on beta frost mage mana rarely ends, your crit chance is pretty much the same as it was (aka op, its like unrelenting assault giving warr triple crit with all attacks whenever his target is hamstringed, hell it wouldnt even be so op as ilvl 359 premade war with shout has like max 7% crit.. not 20 as mage) since resillience doesnt reduce crit chance anymore. O also what anti caster defenses you lost? you got your frost and fire ward merged into 1 that also grants you protection against arcane dmg. Thats the only defense against casters that you lost and even that is questionable as you gained protection against arcane dmg. You also lost frostbite(which was just as balanced against melee as mace stun was against casters and just like amce stun, shouldnt exist in the first place) but you got 8 sec cd 4 sec root aoe non reflectable ability that also slows for like 80%...
So what exactly did you lose? Cause i see only benefits here + you got time warp aka i win button as it increases your dps by 30%...it should ahve been warr/hunter/dk ability as those classes dont benefit from haste as much as any caster does.

I will quote myself here:

Everyone got + 20k HP buff and a lot more damage reduction from resilience in the last beta build. The big Frost numbers in PvP are gone. Ice Lance crits for 13k on people with blue pvp gear and 120k HP. That's even lower % of the total HP than it was in 3.3.5 . It's even lower than in TBC lol. The Deep Freeze glyph is nerfed in pvp (that was the reason for the high Frostbolt crits in the movies) and FoF proc chance is reduced by 10%. The Shattered Barrier and the Early Frost talents are nerfed too.
Our spells take less % of the total HP of a PvP geared player that they did in both Wotlk and TBC. The only new CC spell is avoidable. Our dispel and spell resistances are gone, and we're very, very vulnerable to dispels. The Ice Barrier absorbs 8k damage at lvl 85. That's less than a single hit for most of the classes. The Polymorph cast time is increased and we don't get much haste from the PvP gear at 85. The Glyph of Evocation is nerfed and now heals only 40% HP. The mana cost of the spells is insane and we are forced to use only Mage Armor in long fights (Arenas and Battlegrounds for example). Because of that and the Shatter change, our crit chance on Frozen targets is lower than it was in both Wotlk and TBC. It is even lower than it was in Vanilla.
So all of our defenses are lowered, our bust damage is lowered compared to the total health of a PvP geared player, our DPS over a long battle is lowered and all of our spells cost a lot more mana than they used to.
So what exactly is the problem ???

Oh and I forgot that you can reduce our damage by 6% using a single dispel ability. Plus the fact that all of our spells are balanced on frozen targets only. The mastery don't work if the target isn't frozen. So if you can unfroze yourself we will be doing less damage than we did at 80 in 3.3.5, but you will have 4 times more HP and resilience.
Also I have 20% crit with full tier 11. That's crit 60% on Frozen. I think the 30 level mages in Vanilla had more than that with green questing gear.

[Khazaad]

As a Rogue my backstab critted for 6k yesterday on plate (85 premade). Mages main-attack hits for 15k+ with icelance or frostbolt on every armor-class.
B

I have 3400ish SP and 40% mastery, My average crit is arround 7 k, >10k crits happen only on fresh alts with no gear.

A good frost mage can control you the whole game without you doing shit.

And that's the point.

I find the WoW PvP circle of life amusing.
People percive certain class as 2 button faceroll OP, then masses of bad players reroll that class in hopes of finally getting good at game despite their shortage of skill.
Ofcourse, once they reach max lvl they find out they cannot win by using ice lance (in this case) only, and they get steamrolled by (for example) ferals.
Next you know you have "Hurr, ferals are so OP they kill me with mangle and rip only and i cant fight back. Ima roll one and finally pwn!", and the cycle starts anew...

[AetherMcLoud]

Anyone defending their frost mages at this point is like Ret Paladins defending their burst at the start of wrath with things like "but I have to be in melee to do damage hurp di durp!"

[Hitori]

I have 3400ish SP and 40% mastery, My average crit is arround 7 k, >10k crits happen only on fresh alts with no gear.

We're here in the beta-section and I'm talking about lvl 85 premade-PvP. Everyone's got around 110k life and 30% dmg-reduce, hence I crit for 6k on plate and 11k on cloth, but for example Warriors and Mages crit for 15k+ with their main-attacks. I recently got hit for 28k with frostbolt on 20% dmg-reduce earlier.

[haxartus]

I recently got hit for 28k with frostbolt on 20% dmg-reduce earlier.

And that's nerfed really hard. Of course mmo-champion didn't report that at all. And even before the nerf that 28k should have been with PvE trinkets.

[Deleted]

Anyone defending their frost mages at this point is like Ret Paladins defending their burst at the start of wrath with things like "but I have to be in melee to do damage hurp di durp!"

Frost mages do as much damage as rets did then right now. Without having to be in melee, at range, 40 yards away. While stealing all your buffs. While keeping you permarooted. While keeping you stunned for long periods of time. And if you actually hit them blazing speed procs and they run away. While throwing 10k crits at you as they are moving away from you.

Yeah.

[Hitori]

And that's nerfed really hard. Of course mmo-champion didn't report that at all. And even before the nerf that 28k should have been with PvE trinkets.

Here's the screen (though in German but nevermind): http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4...3010052512.jpg

This Mage seems to have PvP-Gear (as life is close to mine with full PvP-gear). Don't know if he had berserk-buff but even if, the frostbolt would crit for 20k+ on the buffed resilience (30% dmg-reduce) without berserk.

Edited crit.