Word of Glory is OP Video

[towelliee]

Than please stop playing it, one less to start with.



As he said, he refuses to compare it to other tanks who have exactely the same ánd the boss doesn't actually do more damage than normal.



So it's overpowered, but you REFUSE to compare it to another tanking class.
Instead you come here to QQ about how overpowered paladin tanks are according to you.

Maybe you didn't get the message, but Blizzard DOES wasnt you to be able to survive a time on your own.
We are done with the "three hits and you are out"-system from WotLK where healers had to keep spamming and spamming.

And maybe you missed the other thing, but it does not shield anymore.. So please, get your facts straight before you come into a thread acting like an idiot and trolling the shit out of this forum.

OH it doesn't shield anymore? Maybe you read too much MMO front page instead of reading blue posts:

Please be careful forming opinions based on data-mining.

We changed rank 1 of Guarded by the Light to provide the Holy Shield functionality and buff Word of Glory a little bit. Rank 2 provides the overheal shield functionality and buffs Word of Glory a bit more.

Shows how much you read into changes eh?

And where did I ever say I REFUSE to compare to other tanks? Did I say that in the video? Have I said it in this post? I simply said I did NOT do it. How is that refusing?

So who is the troll now? And who has their facts straight? Yeah I thought so.

[Agathon]

Druid LOTP - 190k Druid every 6 seconds 4% - 7600 healing
Paladin WoG - 190k WoG Spec - 20k+ healing within 9 seconds not counting EG procs

Also I think you forgot to mention WoG does produce threat and once you have 50% + Vengeance CS AS hit like a truck to a point where TPS is NOT an issue.

Are you even on the Beta?

you dont compare wog to lotp .....you compare it to lotp + http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/62600/savage-defense/ if you want to be accurate. have you even played a druid? and i still dont see a video of a feral druid on the same encounter in the same situation without external heal.

[towelliee]

you dont compare wog to lotp .....you compare it to lotp + http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/62600/savage-defense/ if you want to be accurate. have you even played a druid?

No I don't.

And my topic is WoG and Self healing. Is SD the Druid's self healing? Lets start there.

If you want to compare Guarded by the Light and SD that could be a different post.

---------- Post added 2010-11-07 at 12:12 PM ----------

you dont compare wog to lotp .....you compare it to lotp + http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/62600/savage-defense/ if you want to be accurate. have you even played a druid? and i still dont see a video of a feral druid on the same encounter in the same situation without external heal.

Why would I post a Druid video without external heals? My video has nothing to do with comparison does it? Cocaine is a hell of a drug lol.

[Agathon]

wog grants a shield when healed full. it heals more then lotp but is an active ability where you sacrifice the biggest tps move for it.
the feral has passiv heal and passiv shield. his shield scales also with ap - vengeance and has a high uptime because it does not require that he is healed to 100% with lotp.

so we have here....
...paladin:
wog scaling with ap/vengeance, needs to sacrifice tps to use it/active ability, granting shield ONLY when healed to 100%

...druid:
lotp, smaller passive heal, shields with SD passiv scaling with ap/vengeance that are granted with a substantial higher uptime than wog, no tps sacrifice.

If you ask me that seems balanced or not far off? i would always prefer the druid style because you dont sacrifice tps, and you always get the shield and not only when you heal yourself when at 100%.

edit:

If you want to compare Guarded by the Light and SD that could be a different post.

no its not a different topic. sd, guarded by the light, sotp and wog are the same kind of category.

edit2:

Cocaine is a hell of a drug lol.

you can insult me all you want i dont give a shit about some whiny jerk crying his eyes out at the other end of the world.

[Foomy]

np, WoG is going to be nerfed into oblivion

[Deleted]

No I don't.

And my topic is WoG and Self healing. Is SD the Druid's self healing? Lets start there.

If you want to compare Guarded by the Light and SD that could be a different post.

---------- Post added 2010-11-07 at 12:12 PM ----------



Why would I post a Druid video without external heals? My video has nothing to do with comparison does it? Cocaine is a hell of a drug lol.

HP not lost due to SD absorb is the same than HP recovered by a self heal.

Btw SD is passive, meaning that they don't give up anything to benefit from it.

Each tank has his own heal/absorb mecanic, stop saying we're OP, every tank has his own stuff.

[towelliee]

wog grants a shield when healed full. it heals more then lotp but is an active ability where you sacrifice the biggest tps move for it.
the feral has passiv heal and passiv shield. his shield scales also with ap - vengeance and has a high uptime because it does not require that he is healed to 100% with lotp.

so we have here....
...paladin:
wog scaling with ap/vengeance, needs to sacrifice tps to use it/active ability, granting shield when healed to 100%

...druid:
lotp, smaller passive heal, shields with SD passiv scaling with ap/vengeance that are granted with a substantial higher uptime than wog, no tps sacrifice.

If you ask me that seems balanced or not far off? i would always prefer the druid style because you dont sacrifice tps, and you always get the shield and not only when you heal yourself when at 100%.

What does TPS matter when you're at 50% plus Vengeance and CS and AS hit like a truck. Want me to show you how hard Crusader Strike and AS hit during fights where all I did was WoG?

here is a few attempts of healing Look at the crits some of the shield Overhealing this is a fraction of the healing done that night:

[22:10:58.031] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +24779 (O: 1783)
[22:11:01.165] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*34884* (O: 4861)
[22:11:07.505] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +0 (O: 26955)
[22:11:10.841] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +0 (O: 26104)
[22:11:21.520] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*41423*
[22:11:28.126] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +29472
[22:11:31.730] Towelliee Word of Glory Jironimo +21350
[22:11:34.933] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*48028*
[22:11:44.076] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*482*
[22:14:11.664] Dammerians Word of Glory Towelliee +*8018*
[22:17:46.705] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +28167
[22:17:56.082] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +30678
[22:18:01.054] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +22917 (O: 8597)
[22:18:10.530] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +33558
[22:27:13.739] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +137
[22:27:26.284] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +32498
[22:27:34.160] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +29005
[22:27:44.102] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*48400*
[22:27:53.646] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +31224
[22:28:15.108] Towelliee Word of Glory Eckserere +231
[22:33:30.109] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*40636*
[22:33:40.687] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*35206* (O: 9278)
[22:33:43.890] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*19874* (O: 24782)
[22:34:04.344] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +30514
[22:39:37.468] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +27994
[22:39:40.938] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +29928
[22:39:45.142] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*21310* (O: 23066)
[22:40:06.398] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +31219
[22:44:31.352] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*12961* (O: 29119)
[22:44:42.263] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +16649 (O: 11185)
[22:44:51.272] Dammerians Word of Glory Koltharish +16100
[22:44:52.105] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +21052 (O: 7371)
[22:49:56.656] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*46073*
[22:50:06.299] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +26632
[22:50:17.728] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +27760
[22:50:27.520] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +7445 (O: 21046)
[22:50:30.656] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +0 (O: 27523)
[22:50:40.501] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +28699
[22:50:52.111] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +0 (O: 30222)
[22:50:55.281] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +0 (O: 28634)
[22:51:04.992] Towelliee Word of Glory Eckserere +22326
[22:51:14.833] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*51807*
[22:51:18.270] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +0 (O: 31942)
[22:51:25.483] Towelliee Word of Glory Eckserere +*33381*
[22:51:42.295] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +35374
[22:51:48.266] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +32568
[22:51:57.949] Dammerians Word of Glory Lazorz +15150
[22:51:59.512] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +33041
[22:55:56.935] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +14608
[22:56:06.579] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +17530
[22:56:14.653] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*27973*
[22:56:17.923] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +18573
[22:56:27.366] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +26436
[22:56:36.876] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +28140
[22:56:50.122] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +16417 (O: 13125)
[22:56:52.094] Dammerians Word of Glory Cromarr +17398
[22:56:59.732] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +28785
[22:57:03.068] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +32642
[22:57:07.739] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +34844
[22:57:17.216] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +37692
[22:57:28.060] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*35157* (O: 19351)
[22:57:41.073] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +32252
[22:57:51.717] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +38561
[23:03:35.882] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +14574
[23:03:45.324] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +31258
[23:03:48.427] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +0 (O: 29963)
[23:03:51.597] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +8551 (O: 16246)
[23:04:01.240] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +25134
[23:04:04.510] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +4668 (O: 23178)
[23:04:14.923] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +28105
[23:04:17.491] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*0* (O: 42698)
[23:04:20.660] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +0 (O: 27650)
[23:04:30.771] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +25764
[23:04:33.439] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*28061* (O: 13407)
[23:04:43.049] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +29709
[23:04:46.587] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +29311
[23:04:59.665] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +31263
[23:05:15.288] Towelliee Word of Glory Eckserere +25301
[23:05:25.458] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +37077
[23:05:35.234] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +35492
[23:05:44.644] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +32839
[23:10:47.245] Dammerians Word of Glory Koltharish +16488
[23:10:50.452] Dammerians Word of Glory Koltharish +6725 (O: 9048)
[23:15:05.021] Dammerians Word of Glory Koltharish +16091
[23:19:42.761] Dammerians Word of Glory Koltharish +14847
[23:19:51.402] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*42826*
[23:19:55.708] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +28509
[23:20:12.691] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +27081
[23:20:23.267] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +31350
[23:20:32.611] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +32216
[23:20:42.988] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +35465
[23:20:45.790] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*50188*
[23:20:49.396] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +32481
[23:20:58.837] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +34300
[23:21:02.139] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +32626
[23:21:17.092] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +36740
[23:27:06.924] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +26848
[23:27:10.724] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +24981
[23:27:13.962] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +*0* (O: 39771)
[23:27:23.609] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +25573 (O: 413)
[23:27:29.110] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +28806
[23:27:32.882] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +2851 (O: 25517)
[23:27:40.855] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +30810
[23:27:50.666] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +31830
[23:28:00.375] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +20288 (O: 10579)
[23:28:23.231] Towelliee Word of Glory Towelliee +37246

---------- Post added 2010-11-07 at 12:24 PM ----------

HP not lost due to SD absorb is the same than HP recovered by a self heal.

Btw SD is passive, meaning that they don't give up anything to benefit from it.

Each tank has his own heal/absorb mecanic, stop saying we're OP, every tank has his own stuff.

Wait don't tell me you can compare what we have to like Blood Craze. Because that is just laughable.

[Deleted]

What does TPS matter when you're at 50% plus Vengeance and CS and AS hit like a truck. Want me to show you how hard Crusader Strike and AS hit during fights where all I did was WoG?

here is a few attempts of healing Look at the crits some of the shield Overhealing this is a fraction of the healing done that night:.

and wanna see how many druids absorb on each hit and for how many they selfheal with Lotp ?

[towelliee]

and wanna see how many druids absorb on each hit and for how many they selfheal with Lotp ?

SURE why not enlighten me with some updated Beta data please.

[Deleted]

Ok, what the fuck are you doing to your mana?

[towelliee]

That is not his job, it's your responsibilty to provide it in the first post.



Ooh yes, you don't REFUSE it... You just won't do it.
If you state that something is overpowered, you must always compare it to another class.

So yeah, you are a troll here.
You don't expect a decent discussion, you just want to go: "LOL PALLIES ARE OP NERF THEM."
Most threads like that are being closed, I surely hope that this will get the same treatment.

Your post is at most, laughable. Backed into a corner and nothing to get yourself back up with.

When 3.0 and SoB was broken did anyone have to compare it to realize it was OP? no
When Paladin's JoL created 10 times the threat of the next tank did we have to compare? Stevie could have seen that one.

#1 - You don't have to compare. It was my choice to focus on the Paladin Tanking class
#2 - I never said I wouldn't do it. I Never said I just refused. HAD I said to myself from the start "I am going to make a video comparing all the tanks self heals" then I would have but I did not. Not sure if were you're from that you are not understanding this concept.
#3 - I did not go LOL PALLIES are OP I gave proof from videos / WoL / Blue posts stating Vengeance scaling is an issue.

[Kpoof]

Wow way to asusme the world without knowing a damn thing.

First off GC already mentioned that he needs to tweak fix Vengeance scaling with Paladin Self heals. So debunk #1. Go to WoW forums and look for the blue post in my WoG post there.

Second, I have weeks of World of Logs showing WoG + EG procs in fights self healing stats you name it. You want the links shoot me a PM.

Third, my video was made to show how it is OP for a Protection Paladin during a Heroic encounter in a Cata 10 man raid. The focus was not to compare to the other tanks.

I have been a tank since WoW began yes and your point is? I have played tank, I have downed all progression up to current from MC days to today's ICC HM's. Are you implying that because I chose tanking only for the last 6 years it is easy?

LOL, what the hell are you talking about son? Way to stick to the point.

[Deleted]

Talking about a class or more specifically a spell being overpowered without doing actual comparison to other classes is flawed I'm afraid.

What I would now like to see is how well the other tanking classes would preform in similar conditions. If the do not survive roughly as long then you do have a point that Word of Glory is indeed overpowered, which is very possible but only testing one out of four possible classes and then calling it over powered is a stretch.

It does of course appear like Paladins may currently be at an advantage in terms of survivability but considering the encounter probably haven't been tuned properly and no real comparison to other tanking classes there is no way to be certain this is actually the case.

[Wannabetank]

okay, let me say this, currently im 6077GS on LIVE servers. Im speced a reti PoG spec right now. What the OP doesnt mention is the extra healing u can pick up from holy. 1st tier and the 1st tier prot is improved PoG. Now people say PoG isnt OP i;ll talk u thought my healing

3 holy power heals for 10.4k currently
spec allows my heal to heal me for another 3.9k with the holy talenys thats a 14.5k heal non crit and it if PoG crits it 20k give or take heal.
30% chance to spam it.
Reti's mastery is a chance on auto hit for your next ability that requires holy power to not consume holy power and to boot it heals as if it has 3 holy power... heres the shiter... the prot talents 30% chance to return holy power also procs on this.

As reti my best chain spam is 9 ina row, averaging around 3-4 almost never out of holy power cause of procs and talents. I also solo oldshcool raids etc. Molten core is EASIER as reti than prot now so is karazhan and ZA. all soloable.

Armory link: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...cn=Wannabetank

The OP is rigght but even now if speced it PoG is immensly overpowered, people on my real that duel me know that even tho i use no resilence im had as hell to kill... pvp wise i have repentence and hammer of justice for heals IF i am ever out of holy power.. usually due to being kited.

As stated above seal of insight is OP aswell. cata will bring 100k heal pools. Insid eheals 4% of hp and restores 4% mana. 4k hp on auto and all physical abilitys such as crusader strike. also keal'thas was 2maned my latest achive, by me and a druid called IIchopperII. NO phoneix mount this time

In the end... name a class where a auto hit could lead to a possible 20k heal? and 30% chance for it to become a possible 40k/60k/80k/100k heal right now wth a chain proc on live server?

[Deleted]

okay, let me say this, currently im 6077GS on LIVE servers. Im speced a reti PoG spec right now. What the OP doesnt mention is the extra healing u can pick up from holy. 1st tier and the 1st tier prot is improved PoG. Now people say PoG isnt OP i;ll talk u thought my healing

3 holy power heals for 10.4k currently
spec allows my heal to heal me for another 3.9k with the holy talenys thats a 14.5k heal non crit and it if PoG crits it 20k give or take heal.
30% chance to spam it.
Reti's mastery is a chance on auto hit for your next ability that requires holy power to not consume holy power and to boot it heals as if it has 3 holy power... heres the shiter... the prot talents 30% chance to return holy power also procs on this.

As reti my best chain spam is 9 ina row, averaging around 3-4 almost never out of holy power cause of procs and talents. I also solo oldshcool raids etc. Molten core is EASIER as reti than prot now so is karazhan and ZA. all soloable.

Armory link: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...cn=Wannabetank

The OP is rigght but even now if speced it PoG is immensly overpowered, people on my real that duel me know that even tho i use no resilence im had as hell to kill... pvp wise i have repentence and hammer of justice for heals IF i am ever out of holy power.. usually due to being kited.

As stated above seal of insight is OP aswell. cata will bring 100k heal pools. Insid eheals 4% of hp and restores 4% mana. 4k hp on auto and all physical abilitys such as crusader strike. also keal'thas was 2maned my latest achive, by me and a druid called IIchopperII. NO phoneix mount this time

In the end... name a class where a auto hit could lead to a possible 20k heal? and 30% chance for it to become a possible 40k/60k/80k/100k heal right now wth a chain proc on live server?

Dude, we are talking as a Prot survivability talent.

In ret, if you spamm WoG (and not PoG), you sacrifice your main nuke, see the difference ? High self heal but no offensive ability. Such a big deal...

[iktankniet]

im not closing the topic because there could be a good discussion if ppl where actually trying to use good arguments.

you've said it yourself OP. the heroic boss didnt seem to do alot more dmg then normal and im guessing bosses are undertweaked for purpose of testing.

DK's have the same ability, but with Death strike. also heals + shield when overhealing. And they can upgrade their shield strength with mastery. isnt that OP at all?

The point is, all the tanks have self healing abilities now a days and plenty other cooldowns to survive.

[towelliee]

im not closing the topic because there could be a good discussion if ppl where actually trying to use good arguments.

you've said it yourself OP. the heroic boss didnt seem to do alot more dmg then normal and im guessing bosses are undertweaked for purpose of testing.

DK's have the same ability, but with Death strike. also heals + shield when overhealing. And they can upgrade their shield strength with mastery. isnt that OP at all?

The point is, all the tanks have self healing abilities now a days and plenty other cooldowns to survive.

Right but you also have to factor in how much Vengeance I had throughout the encounter. Harder hitting bosses will result in a larger WoG since it currently scales with AP. Ghost Crawler sees the issue. But he has no way of changing Vengeance he needs to change the ability itself. Which would then mean making WoG scale with something like Strength to make it more linear.

[darkwarrior42]

No I don't.

And my topic is WoG and Self healing. Is SD the Druid's self healing? Lets start there.

If you want to compare Guarded by the Light and SD that could be a different post.

---------- Post added 2010-11-07 at 12:12 PM ----------



Why would I post a Druid video without external heals? My video has nothing to do with comparison does it? Cocaine is a hell of a drug lol.

This post right here tells me you're no longer worth listening to.

You cannot, CANNOT, simply take ability A from one class, ability B from another class, say they do kinda the same thing, do a power comparison, see that A is superior to B, and declare that class OP.

Word of Glory may well be OP. I don't know, I'm not in the beta. But a tank is more than an ability or two; it's the entire package. What your sentiment boils down to is "Paladin tanks are OP because they can live to long without a healer". That is after all what WoG allows the paladin tank to do in this situation: live without a healer for a longer period of time. To know whether or not that's OP, you have to compare not just that ability, but all the abilities a Paladin tank has to extend his life (including all absorption or damage reduction cooldowns) to the total package of other classes.

That means you need to compare WoG and SD, along with LotP, all standard defensive cooldowns, frenzied regeneration, potions, and anything else they might have. Classes are balanced on a meta scale, not ability by ability.

And once again, I'm neither agreeing with nor denying your assertion. I'm stating that your refusal to consider the full package of other tanks when looking at the strength of WoG means I don't trust your ability to analyze the situation....

...because what exactly defines an OP tank? There are only two options: the tank is too powerful relative to the other tanking classes, or it's too powerful in an absolute sense. To know the former, you would have to compare the entire of what a prot paladin can do to the entirety of what a bear/prot warrior/blood DK can do. You have not done this, so that cannot be what you are asserting (or if it is, you have failed to provide any evidence to do this). If it's the latter, that you believe that paladins are simply OP in an absolute sense, by what standard? As was already said, the ability to survive for an extended period of time without a healer may be the result of an OP tank... or it could be an undertuned boss, or simply the new mechanics at play. You show a video of a single boss. If you were to do 4 or 5 more bosses, with different mechanics, and show that in every single case the prot paladin was able to achieve an extended lifespan well beyond what he should be able to do (which would also involve demonstrating how long a tank *should* be able to survive without a healer, which is not only subjective, but is intended to be significantly longer in the beta anyways), without sacrificing his ability to hold aggro or otherwise perform his job... and then if you were to demonstrate that the largest source of his ability to do so is WoG... THEN you will have proven that it is OP.

Until then, we have a single video. Interesting, thought-provoking perhaps, but ultimately not conclusive.

[Deleted]

Right but you also have to factor in how much Vengeance I had throughout the encounter. Harder hitting bosses will result in a larger WoG since it currently scales with AP. Ghost Crawler sees the issue. But he has no way of changing Vengeance he needs to change the ability itself. Which would then mean making WoG scale with something like Strength to make it more linear.

So, we're just going to do some simple maths here to compare (because yelling "DAT SPELL IZ SO OP" when others tanks might have exactly the same thing, yeah sure, very constructive).

We are going to take some random numbers here because i don't know the real values on beta.

Say that druid get 20k AP when fully buffed with Vengeance, then, we assume that with 0 mastery, he will absorb 7k damage on each strike (because of misses and dodges, we are going to assume that his shield has nearly 100% uptime, they do a lot of crit).

Assuming a boss 2sec swing timer, with ~50% dodges+misses, it's 5 hits taken by the druid, each hit reduced by 7k damage, this makes 30k damage reduction, add to this the heal for Lotp, 4 Lotp heals in a 18sec time window, it's 24% of his health recovered over this 20sec, as i don't know how many hp druid get, i'll assume that they have 100k hp. This is 54k heal+absorb over 20sec.

Now, same with a prot pally. We assume that Prot paly will be able to throw 3 WoG in thoses 20sec window, with 20k WoG heal, it's 60k+ in a 20sec window.

Now, the fact that druid mastery increase the amount absorbed by SD, they will get ever more bigger absorption numbers, while our will remain almost stable.

OP you said ?

[towelliee]

This post right here tells me you're no longer worth listening to.

You cannot, CANNOT, simply take ability A from one class, ability B from another class, say they do kinda the same thing, do a power comparison, see that A is superior to B, and declare that class OP.

Word of Glory may well be OP. I don't know, I'm not in the beta. But a tank is more than an ability or two; it's the entire package. What your sentiment boils down to is "Paladin tanks are OP because they can live to long without a healer". That is after all what WoG allows the paladin tank to do in this situation: live without a healer for a longer period of time. To know whether or not that's OP, you have to compare not just that ability, but all the abilities a Paladin tank has to extend his life (including all absorption or damage reduction cooldowns) to the total package of other classes.

That means you need to compare WoG and SD, along with LotP, all standard defensive cooldowns, frenzied regeneration, potions, and anything else they might have. Classes are balanced on a meta scale, not ability by ability.

And once again, I'm neither agreeing with nor denying your assertion. I'm stating that your refusal to consider the full package of other tanks when looking at the strength of WoG means I don't trust your ability to analyze the situation....

...because what exactly defines an OP tank? There are only two options: the tank is too powerful relative to the other tanking classes, or it's too powerful in an absolute sense. To know the former, you would have to compare the entire of what a prot paladin can do to the entirety of what a bear/prot warrior/blood DK can do. You have not done this, so that cannot be what you are asserting (or if it is, you have failed to provide any evidence to do this). If it's the latter, that you believe that paladins are simply OP in an absolute sense, by what standard? As was already said, the ability to survive for an extended period of time without a healer may be the result of an OP tank... or it could be an undertuned boss, or simply the new mechanics at play. You show a video of a single boss. If you were to do 4 or 5 more bosses, with different mechanics, and show that in every single case the prot paladin was able to achieve an extended lifespan well beyond what he should be able to do (which would also involve demonstrating how long a tank *should* be able to survive without a healer, which is not only subjective, but is intended to be significantly longer in the beta anyways), without sacrificing his ability to hold aggro or otherwise perform his job... and then if you were to demonstrate that the largest source of his ability to do so is WoG... THEN you will have proven that it is OP.

Until then, we have a single video. Interesting, thought-provoking perhaps, but ultimately not conclusive.

Correct and do I not agree with anything you just said. Name of the Video is Word of Glory is overpowered. Did I include the other tanks? No. Why? Because I don't have all 4 tanks on Beta right now and the initial intent of the video was to show how powerul our Word of Glory is. Since this is a Paladin only forum you guys are looking for feedback from other tanks I can not give you access to because I do not play them on Beta.

Whereas on the WoW forums we are all having a discussion between ALL the tanks about WoG and how they feel about it. But here it becomes an UPROAR. I can only assume because over the years we have been nerfed and buffed left and right.

You say you can not compare just Ability A to Ability B and make a comparison. Of course you can. You're telling me I can not compare the Self healing ability of a DK to a Paladin tank? I have to include GOTAK /DP /AD /LOH / and the DK's IBF VB BS etc? I do not agree.

Your post made perfect sense had my video been intended to compare the tanks it would have but it wasn't for that reason.