New Raiding System, pretty confused !!

[Deleted]

Ok, thnx in advance for any reply please,

Lets say we create a 25 HC Run on Wednesday and start killing the bosses. We kill everything up to Sindragosa, but we cant have a good team on her, so we decide to do it on normal mode to continue. I assume that is permitted. If i want to do it in 10-man Heroic, if i undestood well, i CANT do it, right? And the same applies to LK in 10-man Heroic. I cant do it this week, as i have killed everything else on 25-HC. Right? Only Kill it if i want in 25 / 10-normal or 25-HC.

So lets say that my target this week is to kill LK in 10-HC and we are a 25-HC Guild. What i have to do, is either kill everything in 10-HC or 10-normal or 25-normal. If i kill anything in 25-HC, i cant proceed with 10-HC in whatever boss i want.

Sorry if i ask simple things, but we are (as a guild) pretty confused on this. If the above is true, i cant understand Blizzard logic on this...

Thnx in advance for anyone can help

[macazine]

Im pretty sure since you are already saved to a heroic ICC, you can't join another ICC that is doing heroics.

For example, one week I killed 11/12 in hard mode on 10 man. Even though I was saved to PP/BQ/SIND heroic, I couldn't join a 25 that was doing Heroic Lich King, because I was saved to a different heroic ICC. I was able to join a 25 ICC that had 11/12 down and was about to kill LK on normal.

[Deleted]

Mm so if i read the above right, if a guild have as remaining things to do, to kill Sindra on ICC25 HC and LK in ICC10 HC, must decide in the start of the raiding week, if they will do everything in 25Normal / 10Normal / 10 HC in order to kill the LK in ICC10 HC or do everything in 25Normal / 10Normal / 25HC in order to kill Sindragosa HC (and maybe LK HC25).

They cant be flexible with the new system, as at first was promised through Blue Posts....right??

[Twizzlers]

The flexibility of the new lockout system is that it doesn't lock you to a specific ID for reg modes. If you want to do Bane, need to clear H10. If you want to work on LoD, need to clear H25. If you're killing LK reg doesn't matter what bosses you did reg/H 10/25 or even who you go with.

To clarify: Can bounce between 10, 25 and even different groups on reg, but heroic requires same group and setting.

[Deleted]

So again, its a flexibility for the ... casuals. There is no help for teams that choose to do something HC mode, in 10 or 25. Must choose from the start of the week the form and stick to it till the end.

I believe its not logical all this. I mean, why it doesnt let a guild to kill eveything in HC mode till lets say Sindra, kill her in either normal or HC mode and in whatever number (i mean 10 or 25) and then decide to kill LK in either 10normal, 10heroic, 25normal, 25heroic. What will be the problem on this? Damn them....

[Carline]

So again, its a flexibility for the ... casuals. There is no help for teams that choose to do something HC mode, in 10 or 25. Must choose from the start of the week the form and stick to it till the end.

I believe its not logical all this. I mean, why it doesnt let a guild to kill eveything in HC mode till lets say Sindra, kill her in either normal or HC mode and in whatever number (i mean 10 or 25) and then decide to kill LK in either 10normal, 10heroic, 25normal, 25heroic. What will be the problem on this? Damn them....

You do understand that this system was NOT implemented to work perfectly for WotlK content (which is 1 year old btw) rather than to work for Cataclysm content and that heroic restrictions are there to prevent progress guilds to take advantage of the system (in Cataclysm). So just decide which you want to do and live with it.

[deevicoos]

So again, its a flexibility for the ... casuals. There is no help for teams that choose to do something HC mode, in 10 or 25. Must choose from the start of the week the form and stick to it till the end.

No, because if you say.. can't make it or are benched for the other raids, you can go PUG those last bosses on normal or do it with alts or whatever. It's not perfect but you have more options than before. Obviously it grants more flexibility if you do normal modes but everyone will do those initially, and you may still want valor points and stuff. Also if half your raid can't make it or hell you only get 20 players, you can at least do normal clears for VP.

It doesn't grant any more freedom for casuals, if they try to do heroics they're locked too. You have more options than before. Well, once cata hits and the system is putting in a setting it's balanced around rather than just being implemented so it gets some testing and we know how it works. You have only lost the ability to do 10 and 25 man full runs, which sucked anyway, so you're better off, even if it's less better off than players who'll never try heroics.

[BossManRoth]

i got a question related to this. can you skip heroic mode bosses. like, start the night off with heroic on, turn it off for a boss or two then turn it back on, maybe event the next night, like you used to be able to do, or are you stuck doin either regular or heroic?

[CrunkJuice5]

you can go PUG those last bosses on normal or do it with alts or whatever.

assuming your server can actually pug those bosses.some servers cant pug 6/12 in ICC

[Carline]

i got a question related to this. can you skip heroic mode bosses. like, start the night off with heroic on, turn it off for a boss or two then turn it back on, maybe event the next night, like you used to be able to do, or are you stuck doin either regular or heroic?

yes you can switch around heroic and normal as much as u like. as long as you try not to switch raid sizes you won't have problems with heroic restrictions... so if you want to do everything let's say in 10man, you can do for example: gunship hc, PP normal, council hc, bql hc, and so on - without any problems.

the only thing is: the first time you kill a hc boss, all of you will get locked to this lockout for heroic modes this week-> so you couldn't join another group the next day and continue on LK hc for example (but you can continue with your lockout of course, you can even replace as much people as you like too, but they must not have done heroic bosses in other raids this week...)

[Rizendragon]

You do understand that this system was NOT implemented to work perfectly for WotlK content (which is 2 years old btw) rather than to work for Cataclysm content and that heroic restrictions are there to prevent progress guilds to take advantage of the system (in Cataclysm). So just decide which you want to do and live with it.

fix't

[Brett Skullcrack]

You can jump around in normals as much as you want. In hardmodes you get saved to a specific ID tied to a specific size just like you do now.

[Deleted]

Hardmodes were never intended for PuGs. They will certainly not be in Cataclysm.

[babylon]

so basically you are not able to do 25man hc and 10man hc together in one week. so (in cata!) with same ilvl loot dropping from both and same amount of loot (per player!) in both 25 and 10... the 25 and 10 will have same difficulty level - talk... and all that 'take friend over class' policy...

is it just me feeling like thats the suggestion to switch progress to 10man aiming to slowly kill 25mans (kill as skip designing any 25 for further expansion) like they did to 40mans?

[BossManRoth]

yes you can switch around heroic and normal as much as u like. as long as you try not to switch raid sizes you won't have problems with heroic restrictions... so if you want to do everything let's say in 10man, you can do for example: gunship hc, PP normal, council hc, bql hc, and so on - without any problems.

the only thing is: the first time you kill a hc boss, all of you will get locked to this lockout for heroic modes this week-> so you couldn't join another group the next day and continue on LK hc for example (but you can continue with your lockout of course, you can even replace as much people as you like too, but they must not have done heroic bosses in other raids this week...)

thx for the clarification, i assume this is from experience

[Epiclurker]

So again, its a flexibility for the ... casuals. There is no help for teams that choose to do something HC mode, in 10 or 25. Must choose from the start of the week the form and stick to it till the end.

I believe its not logical all this. I mean, why it doesnt let a guild to kill eveything in HC mode till lets say Sindra, kill her in either normal or HC mode and in whatever number (i mean 10 or 25) and then decide to kill LK in either 10normal, 10heroic, 25normal, 25heroic. What will be the problem on this? Damn them....

It has nothing to do with casuals and everything to do with raid difficulty. The HM lockouts means that you can't do 11/12 HM in ICC 10 then switch to 25 hm for your LK kill and get an easy Invicible. I'm not saying LK HM is easy but people get the point, I hope.

[Brittany]

The problem with this whole system is that it's meant for Cataclysm and not really for Wrath. It isn't about casuals or hardcores or whatever, it's just implementing the "you either do 10 man or 25 man" system of Cata early.

[Peepo]

my guild runs a 25 man regular icc every Tuesday, then on weekends, we run our 10 man icc team that are working on heroic progression... if the 25 man stays on regular only, how does that affect our 10 man run?... if they get 6/12, can we do those first six bosses on Saturday with the 10 man team on heroic?

[frester]

my guild runs a 25 man regular icc every Tuesday, then on weekends, we run our 10 man icc team that are working on heroic progression... if the 25 man stays on regular only, how does that affect our 10 man run?... if they get 6/12, can we do those first six bosses on Saturday with the 10 man team on heroic?

if you plan on doing 10man with same ppl on same chars then the answer is no, you can't kill same bosses twice in one week.

[Peepo]

if you plan on doing 10man with same ppl on same chars then the answer is no, you can't kill same bosses twice in one week.

so one marrogar kill... whether it's 10 man reg/10 man heroic/25 man reg/25 man heroic?...

4 ways to do a boss, but only 1 kill per week?...