Butchered Efflorescence: Worth 3 Talent Points Anymore?

[SirLancelittle]

The one problem I have with the new Efflorescence (besides the fact I can't spell it) is that it is an AOE triggered off an *oh crap* direct heal. I use swiftmend as a quick heal when someone drops really low. This is often not when I want an AOE heal. Maybe it will change my gameplay (and I'll use swiftmend on every cooldown), but it still feels like kind of a weird link between abilities.

I though it made more sense when it was triggered off regrowth, since regrowth seemed to be designed to be the basic raid direct healing spell. I understand that it was trigger too much, but I would have thought they could have changed it to something like...

When you case regrowth you have a 20% chance to trigger Efflorescence. Efflorescence cannot be re triggered for 20 seconds.

That would have given it a lower uptime (less than 33%) while still linking it to the more logical spell.

[Myrrar]

You should be hitting SM every time it's off CD unless no one/only the tank is taking dmg. Instead of having this insane non-channeled aoe, we now all have equalized good aoes. As long as you're raid is smart enough to stand in it, it;s worth it. As for your spec, we probably wont be going for moonglow. Most people probably wont even go Nat grace since even though it procs off RG, RG isn't a spell you are going to use constantly. It's still good, just going to either be 2/3 until we have no mana problems or completely skipped based off how much we use RJ.

I doubt blizz is going to keep BotG the way it is since no one at 85 picks it up, esp after the RJ nurf.

[BishopXQ]

The current numbers for those intrested:

Efflorescence -
Mana cost: 1800 swfitmend + ~4800 rejuv
Heals: 550ish ticks every second for 7 seconds
Total healing to 6 players: 23,100
CD: 15 seconds

Healing Rain -
Mana cost: 10130
Heals: 2250ish ticks every 2 seconds for 10 seconds
Total healing to 6 players: 67,500
CD: 10 seconds

Holy Ward: Sanctuary
Mana cost: 9059 mana
Heals: 5500-6500ish ticks every 2 seconds for 18 seconds
Total healing to 6 players: 297,000
CD: 28 seconds and requires specific chakra state

[Puri]

Wotlk = Death of tank in .05sec if you miss a heal.

Cataclysm = Time to heal without worrying about insta-gibs.

I'd rather worry about managing my mana than missing a heal if I blink.

Yes Blizzard said that. But have you already raided @beta? It's even worse than it was at wotlk, the tank can literally go from 100% to 5% in 0,05s, but other than in WOTLK two crit heals won't nearly bring your tank back at full health.

But for the raid damage: You indeed have more time to bring the raid back to full health, and let your hots tick. For mana purposes, it also is advisable again to split up your groups to the healers.

[Myrrar]

Yes Blizzard said that. But have you already raided @beta? It's even worse than it was at wotlk, the tank can literally go from 100% to 5% in 0,05s, but other than in WOTLK two crit heals won't nearly bring your tank back at full health.

But for the raid damage: You indeed have more time to bring the raid back to full health, and let your hots tick. For mana purposes, it also is advisable again to split up your groups to the healers.

Beta's still very unbalanced though. They are going to put things as close to what they say they want as they can before release, they just have to try and tweak a lot of numbers for a lot of specs all at the same time. As said, look at the aoe healing difference and their whole thing is equalizing it. So, we will either be buffed, or they will all be nurfed. And boss->tank dmg will be nurfed, or tank stats will be buffed.

[Legende]

I think some people still have the mind set of how we use to heal rather than how we will be healing. Healing in 4.0.1 is almost a tease because even though we would love to have endless mana it is just not gonna happen. Not to mention as a resto druid now we have spells that we aren't even touching yet.

Other healing classes got brand new spells. Druids got a revamp of previous spells that were in hiadus. As Myrrar said, blizzard is trying to equalize it as best they can. However I will say that eff at the moment seems lacking compared to Healing rain and Holy Ward : Sanc. Also on beta I am hoping they lessen the amount of points we must spend to even get eff. *crosses fingers* Please!

[dmx87212]

I won't use it. 3 points for that is not worth it. If they make it 1 point, yeah I'd take it but otherwise its a no.

My spec for cata will be http://wowtal.com/#k=DfAbAKGq.a7t.druid (tank healing)

[KrinKer]

I won't use it. 3 points for that is not worth it. If they make it 1 point, yeah I'd take it but otherwise its a no.

My spec for cata will be http://wowtal.com/#k=DfAbAKGq.a7t.druid (tank healing)

Just an Fyi but 3/3 moonglow is better mana regen than 3/3 furor

[Squishie]

The problem that I see with Eff in it's current state, it requires 2gcds to trigger on a specific location. Because we will no longer be blanketing the raid the chances are rejuv won't be on the desired location. So what we end up with is a heavily invested talented heal that requires 2 gcds to trigger, and in the end doesn't heal for an awful lot.

I think without some changes to the way it procs/amount healed/talent cost a lot of Druids will just skip over this spell. Esspeciwly with the prereq being an on proc for our least used heal at 85.

But I guess time will tell

[Ravenblade]

I tend to be careful with judging numbers in a vacuum as this can mislead to the conclusion that all classes enjoy similar healing style, mechanisms and benefits. For instance we still have the healing from the actual Rejuvenation itself and that one from Swiftmend. Even with the costs in mind Rejuvenation still has potential for added multi-target healing. I don't really mind the Efflorescence nerf really as long as the result is that AoE heals are not ending up as staple heals again.

It is true that at peak it requires two GCDs to activate but in another scenario you would have to spend that 1 GCD for Rejuvenation anyway (which can be talented for 1s) and if you know you are going to need Efflorescence then chances are that you're going to need Rejuvenation alot more as well - at least according my Beta experience.

In any case I don't see a reason to spec out of Efflorescence. A nerf doesn't equal to making spells or abilities useless and more often than not that notion is even pure hyperbole (similar to when they nerfed Void Rays and people cried that it's now utterly useless/trashed).
I'll stick with http://wowtal.com/#k=gCFvQ4Yx.a8t.druid.Q6j-vm unless Blizzard decides to change BotG which I am sure they will. Being a former proponent of FoS I am still happy that the (in my opinion very overpowered) Malfurion's Gift is unlinked now and I think the initial effect of Moonglow is stronger than that of HotW even though the latter might be a better option if you're short on talent points.

[ELEDIN]

Its a hypotheticaly 6 person healing that require 2 gcd 3 talent points 15 sec cooldown and heals for too low, no its not worth to take it. Im prety sure on the next beta build they change the talents that require from 3 to 1 or increase again healing or even revamp the talent again.
Im not gana take it as it is right now

[bigjohnburger]

seriously you want things to be easy? I'm actually hoping that healing will be hard because it's to damn boring atm... It's true that the first few patches will make things easier again which is kinda sad, if it doesn't work then it needs fixing but I don't wanne go back to an ICC healing style...

ya im not saying i want it to be easy, of course not; but i also don't want it to be be insanely hard where im constantly worrying about mana. Healing should be hard in the sense if you use the wrong spell you die, not mana regen... thats silly and has nothing to do with being a skilled healer.

[Myrrar]

ya im not saying i want it to be easy, of course not; but i also don't want it to be be insanely hard where im constantly worrying about mana. Healing should be hard in the sense if you use the wrong spell you die, not mana regen... thats silly and has nothing to do with being a skilled healer.

It has a lot to do with being a skilled healer. Wrath healing took very little skill, Classic healing took very little skill. TBC was probably the middle ground where they want it to be, and imo, make it harder than that too.

If mana wasn't a factor you would have wrath again. Why cast a long spell when you can spam one that ends up healing for about the same. That's when things like RJ, HL, CH, Bubble spamming comes in. Mana is the only things that makes you choose between spells, or you would just spam your best heal over and over.

Knowing you have a certain amount of mana to work with in a fight and knowing exactly how your mana will regen over the fight does in fact have a lot to do with being a skilled healer.

[bigjohnburger]

It has a lot to do with being a skilled healer. Wrath healing took very little skill, Classic healing took very little skill. TBC was probably the middle ground where they want it to be, and imo, make it harder than that too.

If mana wasn't a factor you would have wrath again. Why cast a long spell when you can spam one that ends up healing for about the same. That's when things like RJ, HL, CH, Bubble spamming comes in. Mana is the only things that makes you choose between spells, or you would just spam your best heal over and over.

Knowing you have a certain amount of mana to work with in a fight and knowing exactly how your mana will regen over the fight does in fact have a lot to do with being a skilled healer.

not with druids, from what i hear in beta the only spell worth casting is regrowth so if there goal is to incorporate mana into it then i suggest they make nourish way better than it is and reduce the cast time on healing touch, the only time i use healing touch is when i have natures swiftness up

[styvorama]

It has a lot to do with being a skilled healer. Wrath healing took very little skill, Classic healing took very little skill. TBC was probably the middle ground where they want it to be, and imo, make it harder than that too.

If mana wasn't a factor you would have wrath again. Why cast a long spell when you can spam one that ends up healing for about the same. That's when things like RJ, HL, CH, Bubble spamming comes in. Mana is the only things that makes you choose between spells, or you would just spam your best heal over and over.

Knowing you have a certain amount of mana to work with in a fight and knowing exactly how your mana will regen over the fight does in fact have a lot to do with being a skilled healer.

Yeah, I think people have spent too long healing at cap and have lost perspective(myself included).

Since raiding had died down, I have started leveling a healing priest. At first I was healing a bit too much like I was on my druid, not focusing on using my efficient heal. I was chomping my mana and needing to drink a few times a dungeon. I have since been using "Heal"(like our Nourish, slow and low) and healing is not really any harder, just timed different. I am almost always at full mana now.

This change in healing strategy has given me an idea of what Blizz is intending for the healing in Cata. How this will translate to a 25 man raid with Triage will be interesting. I think using our slow/low heal during times of low damage will be tough to coordinate, may call for healers to have a group or 2 that they focus on, to prevent overhealing.

More on topic: The changes to efflorescence are quite disappointing. With the comparison above v Healing Rain and
Holy Ward: Sanctuary we can see that Efflorescence is currently a little lackluster.

I honestly think that the 6 person limit should not apply to Efflorescence. I believe this because Sanctuary and Healing Rain are both targetable spells, where you can drop the circle where you please. Efflorescence on the other hand takes some planning/positioning knowledge to put it to good use. If you are able to plan it to hit a large group, you should be rewarded by it healing everyone in range.

[McFrotton]

ok its not holy ward everyone but holy WORD k ty

[Myrrar]

not with druids, from what i hear in beta the only spell worth casting is regrowth so if there goal is to incorporate mana into it then i suggest they make nourish way better than it is and reduce the cast time on healing touch, the only time i use healing touch is when i have natures swiftness up

No, not sure what beta druids you have talked to, but that's not how it's going to be in Cata and hasn't been most of beta. There have been tons of threads about this so I'm not going to go into detail again, but "triage" healing will be the way to go and Nourish will be your main used spell. You will not be spamming one spell, not even close. Beta has been either far one side or the other since they have been mass tweaking our spells and mana. But you can tell from not only beta raids, but what they are doing every patch they are sticking to the healing model they had planned.

[bigjohnburger]

No, not sure what beta druids you have talked to, but that's not how it's going to be in Cata and hasn't been most of beta. There have been tons of threads about this so I'm not going to go into detail again, but "triage" healing will be the way to go and Nourish will be your main used spell. You will not be spamming one spell, not even close. Beta has been either far one side or the other since they have been mass tweaking our spells and mana. But you can tell from not only beta raids, but what they are doing every patch they are sticking to the healing model they had planned.

?... ya then i suggest they make nourish on par with everyone elses mana efficient spells, the only time it doesn't suck is when we have our mastery on a target, which is pointing druids being more tanks heals now than anything else with the new mastery thats worthless unless you have hots on a target already and since we can no longer blanket the raid group, ya...

[emni]

I won't use it. 3 points for that is not worth it. If they make it 1 point, yeah I'd take it but otherwise its a no.

My spec for cata will be http://wowtal.com/#k=DfAbAKGq.a7t.druid (tank healing)

After the Efflorescence nerf, I was thinking of a similar specc to begin Cata with, except with 3/3 Moonglow: http://wowtal.com/#k=gsuamQeH.a7t.druid.. Given that the first weeks of the expansion will be mainly 5-man instances, a weak AoE heal that no PuGs will stand in seems like a waste of 3 talent points.

For raids, I guess I'll re-evaluate Efflorescene's usefulness later.

[Shinshiva]

WHY are you all still complaining about balancing issues? Are you all too thick to understand what it means?

THERE ARE NO NERFS WHEN YOU ARE BALANCING A NEW EXPANSION! That is all. Blizzard don't gtive a shit about you or what you think should be good as a number for any given ability; why? BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.