Skipping raid content again?

[Sulika]

I suspect the previous raid tier will still remain pretty worth getting simply because the relative increase going from one to the next will be much lower.

In effect during WotLK when a new raid came out you stopped with the old one and did 10 man and 25 man in the new one. I suspect in Cata we will see people keep doing the old raid and the new one but dropping the two tier old raids.

[Chaotica]

Tier 11 is released, certain non tier slots and 3 pieces of tier are bought with Valor Points.

Tier 12 is released, certain non tier slots and 3 pieces of tier are bought with Valor Points. The tier 11 pieces that used to cost Valor points, now cost Justice Points, and can be farmed by running the tier 11 heroics, as well as the new 5 man instance that comes with the tier 12 patch that drops epics eqivalent to tier 11.

Tier 13 is released, certain non tier slots and 3 pieces of tier are bought with Valor Points. The tier 12 pieces that used to cost Valor points, now cost Justice Points, and can be farmed by running the tier 12/11 heroics, as well as the new 5 man instance that comes with the tier 13 patch that drops epics eqivalent to tier 12.

Tier 14 is released, certain non tier slots and 3 pieces of tier are bought with Valor Points. The tier 13 pieces that used to cost Valor points, now cost Justice Points, and can be farmed by running the tier 1312/11 heroics, as well as the new 5 man instance that comes with the tier 14 patch that drops epics eqivalent to tier 13.

Blizzard have stated this. Not in so many words but it's the pattern they will follow.

3.2 was released, toc 5 man had gear equivalent to Ulduar to help you get into toc.
3.3 was released, icc 5 man had gear equivalent to trial of the crusader to help you get into icc.

We will be skipping tier on alts, and newbies will skip stuff.

4.1 will release a 5 man that has gear equivalent to tier 11 to help you do tier 12.
4.2 will release a 5 man that has gear equivalent to tier 12 to help you do tier 13.
4.3 will release a 5 man that has gear equivalent to tier 13 to help you do tier 14.

And repeat for as many huge content patches as cata has. Also any further expansions will follow this pattern.



The days of running kara (tier 4) to get gear to do SSC/TK (tier 5) to do Hyjal/BT (tier 6) and that was the only way to do it (until they patched in some badge vendors with tier 5/6 equivalent and Zul'Aman) are gone.

WOW will never return to a TBC style progression.



Oh and I forgot to mention Tol Barad (VOA 2.0) You can bet your ass once tier 13/14 is out no one will kill the tier 11/12 boss in Tol Barad.

sorry but i think your wrong, blizzard has said a few times, that there will no longer be epics rewards to players outside of raiding, so no epics, no tier at all ever from doing say heroic 5 man instances. blizzard is trying to make epics finally feel EPIC again

[Walkingsteak]

Oh and I forgot to mention Tol Barad (VOA 2.0) You can bet your ass once tier 13/14 is out no one will kill the tier 11/12 boss in Tol Barad.

Well they've scrapped the shitty badge system, so they will drop up-to-date points atleast

[Algore]

sorry but i think your wrong, blizzard has said a few times, that there will no longer be epics rewards to players outside of raiding, so no epics, no tier at all ever from doing say heroic 5 man instances. blizzard is trying to make epics finally feel EPIC again

Somewhat incorrect, heroics will not drops epics no, but blue set...HOWEVER you will be able to get some maybe 1-2 epics from world bosses.
Rogues will be able to get daggers/1hs from pick locking.

[petrefax]

sorry but i think your wrong, blizzard has said a few times, that there will no longer be epics rewards to players outside of raiding, so no epics, no tier at all ever from doing say heroic 5 man instances. blizzard is trying to make epics finally feel EPIC again

Sorry but you are the one that is wrong, epics won't be available for Justice or in heroics at the start of the expansion but as soon as 4.1 drops and T12 raids come out then everything that was purchased with Valor will become purchasable with Justice.

[sicness]

sorry but i think your wrong, blizzard has said a few times, that there will no longer be epics rewards to players outside of raiding, so no epics, no tier at all ever from doing say heroic 5 man instances. blizzard is trying to make epics finally feel EPIC again

You misinterpreted what they said I think. For the first tier (tier 11) epics will be meaningful and heroics will not drop any and you won't be able to obtain them from outside of raids. However, as soon as tier 12 is introduced you will be able to purchase the tier 11 set, and likely the equivalent valor point gear as well, from justice points that you obtain by running heroics.

They are happy with this system and have stated they completely intend to keep it in game because it allows people to raid the most current content, something they feel everyone should be able to experience if they choose.

[petrefax]

They are happy with this system and have stated they completely intend to keep it in game because it allows people to raid the most current content, something they feel everyone should be able to experience if they choose.

Also I believe they said that they will drop a 5-man with each raid tier as well which will follow the path of WotLK.

So the 5-man that comes with 4.1 will drop top-notch blues on normal and T11 equivalent epics on heroic.

[sicness]

Also I believe they said that they will drop a 5-man with each raid tier as well which will follow the path of WotLK.

So the 5-man that comes with 4.1 will drop top-notch blues on normal and T11 equivalent epics on heroic.

Interesting, I don't recall seeing that but it makes sense.

[Gurbz]

sorry but i think your wrong, blizzard has said a few times, that there will no longer be epics rewards to players outside of raiding, so no epics, no tier at all ever from doing say heroic 5 man instances. blizzard is trying to make epics finally feel EPIC again

This might be true during the initial first tier of Cataclysm raiding. But it has already been confirmed that, just like WotLK, the gear available for Valor points in T11 will be purchasable for Justice points once T12 is released. So, eventually, it will be possible to have at least some epic quality gear without setting foot in a raid zone. What I would be surprised to see is a full set of tier gear available for purchase with nothing but points.

And since you get Valor Points for the first random heroic you do every day, even the initial T11 gear will be available for people who never set foot in a raid. It will just take them longer to get. Blizzard never said it was a bad thing that people who only run heroics got raid quality gear. They just said they wanted to take a little more work than it did in Wrath.

[petrefax]

Interesting, I don't recall seeing that but it makes sense.

Found it, 5-man in 4.1 is Abyssal Maw

http://www.crusaderscoliseum.com/new...al-maw-dungeon

[Cernunnos]

sorry but i think your wrong, blizzard has said a few times, that there will no longer be epics rewards to players outside of raiding, so no epics, no tier at all ever from doing say heroic 5 man instances. blizzard is trying to make epics finally feel EPIC again

There is a blue saying that each new raid with have an accompanying 5 man to help you do the new raid. (if only I could find the damned thing)

And running the heroics would at best get you the previous contents tier. Since current tier has to be bought with Valor badges (which you only get from raiding the current tier) not Justice Points (which you get from running heroics and previous content raid)

You cannot do what you do now, run heroics for a week and have full tier 10 (current content), at best, in cata this would get you tier 9. Running old content gets you old gear.

---------- Post added 2010-11-13 at 07:01 PM ----------

Found it, 5-man in 4.1 is Abyssal Maw

http://www.crusaderscoliseum.com/new...al-maw-dungeon

Thanks for the link. Knew it was around her somewhere.

[sicness]

Found it, 5-man in 4.1 is Abyssal Maw

http://www.crusaderscoliseum.com/new...al-maw-dungeon

Awesome, thanks for the find.

[Cernunnos]

What I would be surprised to see is a full set of tier gear available for purchase with nothing but points.

I will dread the day we go back to that.

3 pieces with badges is too much for me. Even with 4 alts.

1-2 pieces from badges, rest from raiding.

And thank god for slotted tier. No more of this "oh I only have to run 1/3 of the instance to get full tier"

I hope the first tier token you find in the raid is the same one from badges. Least that way pugs might actually try to progress through a raid in it's entirety, not just "oh look tier token, sweet. done for the week, see you all next week."

Have tier drop from the last boss too. And not the same token that you can buy from badges.

[NineSpine]

Hmm.. I do see your point. My issue is that I came to WoW just as ICC was released (3.3.1 I think?) so I never got to experience any of the older content as content, just as weekly facerolling filler that gets done in 10 minutes. When I hit 80 there was no "entry-level raid" it was farm heroics until my eyes bled and hope I could get into a TOC/ICC group with zero raiding experience - I got lucky and was in a casual guild that did raid once in a while so I got at least some bit of experience.

That's my concern with their approach. A new player has no way to get experience since the entry-level stuff won't be run as soon as a new raid comes out. For those of us with many alts I could see how it benefits us to not have to go through older content again.

Trust me, you are lucky they made it work the way it does. In BC, you would have come in at the end and just been screwed. The lower end progression guilds were unstable and hard to progress through, because people only stayed in them long enough to move on to a guild that was in the next tier. This caused a lot of drama and headaches, and resulted in guilds being stuck in Kara for a year. It become harder and harder as time wore on, to break into the higher end guilds. If you weren't around early, getting to the top was near-impossible.

[Spning]

I miss the days of Karazhan and attunements. It was annoying as hell but satisfying ---> for me anyway.

[Magicochon]

The fact is that if you do not do this you first make 5man totally useless and give a really hard time to new lv 85 that started lately in the expansion. if everybody is in tier 13 and you just started it might be really really hard to find a tier 11 guild.
This is why badge are here.

[JackalopeSpam]

It's actually a great way to get players geared so as to be able to join friends in the higher level raids. The older raids go by the wayside as newer content is released anyways. Progressive raid groups ignore the older raids, and pugs peter out. The new heroics make it easier to catch up rather than carry them through progression or an older raid.

However, they should limit the amount/quality of gear you can get from the heroics. First I think they should have epics, just increase the item level and keep them blue quality. Otherwise a full set of epics is a little much. ToC 5 was good, you couldn't get the full set just a few items here and there.

[Christan]

Heroics are now 232.

heroics are 251 / 264 with JP, and a 245 ring / 251 with just 1 lil rep run of icc, 226 neck, get a few crafted pieces and its GG fully geared for icc25, after what, a week of heroics?

[eduh]

its kind of sad seeing people so damn obsessed about gear.

you shouldnt need a fucking purple color to tell you how good you are at the game.

[Huntdanoobs]

TBH, I loved the way TBC went about with raid progression. With the concept of having to go through heroics -> t4 -> t5-> t6-> sunwell, makes gear more special and being on the higher tier raid actually feels like an accomplishment, not something regularly pugged or a raid that 90% of the population will be able to enter the second it is released.

call it nostalgia if you want, but make so if you truely want to see all raid content you have to put in some sort of effort to see the top levels