Wrath Difficulty

[Deleted]

The problem is that how you could gear up so easily and skip alot of the content in two days worth of grinding.

There needs to be more mechanics where gear doesn't matter. This was another downfall linked with the one above.

Gear was obtained easily, which lead to getting easy gear as you can overgear the mechanics (I HAS 40K HP UNBUFFED I CAN STAND IN FIRE FOR 20 SECS WITHOUT DYING!!).

It goes in a viscious cycle until you overgear all the content and then you have nothing to do. It was "easy" because if you had enough gear you could faceroll as the mechanics were overgearable.

[Microwavegerbil]

mm just an opinion but for me Vashj and Kael weren't that hard if something was hard in Tempest keep it was the trash... Kael was fun and awesome but it wasn't that hard once you knew the mecanism they were easy to avoid..
Anub? i think you didn't try TOGC 25 ( TOC 25 H) back in 245-258 gear he was hard the problem was that TOC 10 version was terrible easy S: and Yogg? mm ok i don't think anyone is going to agree with you that Yogg+0 is not harder that those encounters...

You obviously never worked on KT and Vashj until they were nerfed. KT in particular required the raid to be fully buffed with every consumable possible and in near-max gear to be able to burn through phase 3 and 4 in time. It was extremely difficult.

The problem in this thread is you've got some people comparing nerfed TBC bosses to unnerfed Wrath bosses and progression-level TBC bosses to normal mode Wrath. The simple fact of the matter is that final bosses on hard mode were comparable to TBC bosses, in their original un-nerfed forms. I also saw someone put it very well when they said that main difference is that Wrath was far more player-friendly, in requiring much less farming time and overall prep time for raids. If you guys could get over yourselves for a second you could see this.

[TJ]

Yes, when a game has been out for 6 years and high end raiding has been consistent for at least four of them any attempt to limit or restrict high end raiding thereafter by blizzard is indeed meddling in high end raiding. Paragon has done something difficult, but only after jumping through several unnecessary hoops to get there. This is not like killing any other boss and it is hardly a display of skill, only of willpower, dedication, and ambition. It's like adding a hurdle at the end of a 100 meter sprint, does it make all the other world class sprinters "bad" or "worse" compared to the winner because they were unprepared or unwilling to deal with the extra hurdle for the traditional sprinting race they have been running for five years prior? No my friend, it does not.

Its Blizzards game, therefore their choice. Dont like it gtfo.

[sulfuric]

Its Blizzards game, therefore their choice. Dont like it gtfo.

Of course it's their choice I never said it was anyone's choice but the developers. What I said was that blizzard intervened with natural world first progression by instating limited attempts which skewed the results from "fastest guild in the world" to "fastest guild in the world willing to subject themselves to mirror raiding". You're not a dull individual miller, you're capable of reading comprehension aren't you?

[Deleted]

Lady Vashj:
Nuke for like 30% of her health, no real tactic here at all except occasional grounding totems

Kite some adds
Kill some adds
Form a little chain of people

Tank some adds
Nuke some more
Dead

Yogg'Saron:
Kite adds
Avoid clouds or use strategically to make phase faster
Interrupt adds
Actually have to pay attention
(this is the part where on vashj you just sat there spamming one for a whole third of her health)

Juggle four kinds of debuff
Move tactically in sanity room
Prioritise three kinds of add with different player types
Manage fight-unique resource
(this is actually pretty similar to vashj phase two but more complicated)

Tank some adds
Don't let adds heal boss
Nuke boss
Don't go insane
Dead
(this is pretty similar too but again more complicated)

And don't get me started on Yogg hard mode

OH SHIT WAIT YOU SAID I CAN'T DO THIS SORRY

Face it, Vanilla and quite a lot of TBC most of strategy was just tank and spank with the occasional add or interrupt.
Wrath was all about dancing and coordination.
The fights are just as hard if not harder, the players just don't suck as much and we have sites like elitist jerks that stop people being crap all the time.

You are my hero.

[Velyndina]

I dont believe the expansion itself should be judged by the difficulty of raiding. I had fun in wrath, I enjoyed all the quests and scenery of the zones and I enjoyed the raids as well, no matter how hard or easy.

[Deleted]

IMHO the problem isnt the actual difficulty of pve but the way Wotlk changed acces to gear. People were used to stuff like "this guys wearing epics hes totaly leet" while people in blues, greens were casuals, noobs etc. But the way you can get gear changed, pretty much anyone has acces to at least some epics once they reach max lvl. But playerbase mentality was already used to the old scheme and thats where most of these rumors about Wotlk being too easy came from. While its probably not the only reason I think its a pretty huge factor.

[TJ]

Of course it's their choice I never said it was anyone's choice but the developers. What I said was that blizzard intervened with natural world first progression by instating limited attempts which skewed the results from "fastest guild in the world" to "fastest guild in the world willing to subject themselves to mirror raiding". You're not a dull individual miller, you're capable of reading comprehension aren't you?

Doesnt skew anything, just looks like you are twisting data and changes to make Paragon look bad because of some personal grudge you have against them.
Anyway i swear down this is the last time i reply to you, you wont provoke me again!

[zenkai]

Majority of these people who say wrath was too easy never did hard modes (unless they did them higher gear, IE Ulduar in T10) People might say Wrath raiding is easy but the list of guilds who killed HLK and 0 Light Yogg and Tribute to insanity say otherwise

[Imnick]

TBC was easy, Wrath was easy, Cataclysm will be easy, haters will hate

Or maybe TBC was hard and I was mad skill and then I forgot everything when Wrath was released

[Araun]

it's all about the motivation to raid. a lot of people are bad and raid for gear so for them the game is now very easy, because you can just wait and heroics to get "good" gear. then some people raid just to see the encounters and when they are done with normal mode they "won" the game so for them it's also a very easy game. then there are 2 groups of people that see the hard part the ones that raid for e-peen, they usually have to clear everything to get whatever is the latests "dkloldk, the nubslayer" titles or pay for it. they don't necesarily(?) enjoy the game but they sure do enjoy the e-fame they get. the last ones are the people that sincerly enjoy the challenge of a good encounter for them the gear is a tool to get further and the titles are just something that comes with killing stuff.

so depending in how you see raiding you see it as easy or hard to "win".

[Deleted]

The content in cata is going to be more tactics based. It's going to take more skill sure but theres less chance of one person being able to wipe the raid.

[sulfuric]

Doesnt skew anything, just looks like you are twisting data and changes to make Paragon look bad because of some personal grudge you have against them.
Anyway i swear down this is the last time i reply to you, you wont provoke me again!

Adding an additional hoop to jump through doesn't skew anything? What irrational level of discourse are you accustomed to? So if someone threw a couch into two lanes during a nascar race and the drivers were forced to slow down and avoid them you'd think that wouldn't skew the results of the race? That is exactly what blizzard did with limited attempt raiding and to pretend otherwise is to clearly display a lack of understanding and detachment from any aspect of high end raiding.

You either had to double your time investment in the already very stale and poorly rewarding expansion of wrath of the lich king to raid and gear up a secondary main character, or you were out of the world first race. You're repeatedly asserting that "paragon is the best guild in the world" because they decided to double their time investment and afforded themselves a world first kill. Somewhere along the lines you find that this makes them better than any other top guild who opted not to double their time investment and pursued hardmode raiding with the attempt lockout as blizzard forced them to.

Make no mistake about it the second limited tries goes away any draw to play this second main character is gone, they are simply throw aways. You're calling someone bad for not wanting to waste that kind of time simply because blizzard arbitrarily created another hurdle. Please, you're just a spectator themiller, you've never gotten a world first and likely never even a server first. You don't know what the push is like, you don't know what the game is like at that level and it taints your opinion about the matter. Paragon is a top guild and has been for many years but you don't get to claim they are anything other than the fastest guild in ICC, and they got there by bypassing limited attempts on a secondary mirrored raid. Blizzard changed the rules and because of that they changed the results, world first heroic lich king was not a display of talent, it was a display of dedication.

[jster]

ulduar was great,icc was bad

Not true at all, The Lich King fight on heroic is what i consider one of the greatest fights Blizzard has ever made, While yes, Yogg is another amazing fight i dont think either one of them is bad. Both are unique and fun in their own way.