Shot normalization

[zaronn]

I would just like to know why bliz has neglected to address shot normalization for hunters.. it is pretty annoying that they confirm it is unintended and a bug, but have not fixed the issue.

currently. Im getting significantly(500-1000) higher dps with a 271 weapon than with a 277, because specials are not normalized with weapon damage. this is annoying as piss

hopefully bliz reads these forums, and might do something about it if enough people are bothered by it. I assume they have just been letting it go, since most hunters dont seem to know about it. at first I didnt believe people who told me that fal'inrush normal was doing better than zods heroic, so I tested it.. both on dummies and in a raid... and yeah they were right.

hunter is already by far the class farthest behind on live... dont let acknowledged bugs which broaden this gap even more go unfixed

[Ninjamoo]

Yeah but it's only a couple more weeks till cata and then everything will be fixed. Hunters on live are terrible and 2 specs are broken so I don't even worry about it.

[Zarleck]

hopefully bliz reads these forums,

They don't, post on the new official forums.

[Inject]

I've noticed that my special shots are also clipping my auto shots. Has anyone else been experiencing this? I was wondering why my DPS was so much lower than it should have been but I picked up this addon called "DPS Check" and it tells you if auto shots fail to land, etc. I did a stand still test on the target dummies without moving at all and I had 227 out of 600(possible) auto shots cast. I figured maybe the addon was bugged but I then started checking my quartz swing timer and they were definitely being clipped. I'm not sure why this would be happening.

[Fuger]

I've noticed that my special shots are also clipping my auto shots. Has anyone else been experiencing this? I was wondering why my DPS was so much lower than it should have been but I picked up this addon called "DPS Check" and it tells you if auto shots fail to land, etc. I did a stand still test on the target dummies without moving at all and I had 227 out of 600(possible) auto shots cast. I figured maybe the addon was bugged but I then started checking my quartz swing timer and they were definitely being clipped. I'm not sure why this would be happening.

Macro time buddy.

Just like BC with the auto shot/ steady shot macros.

[Inject]

but I was under the impression that auto shot clipping was fixed? >_>

[rockallnite]

Especially since auto shots are primary source of dmg for Marksman hunters, anything negative concerning them would absolutely kill MM hunters.

[harky]

I haven't experienced any shot clipping... that sounds like some other problem. Did you at least have Recount or something open to see how many hits it recorded? You could be misinterpreting Quartz and the mod you used is just buggy. Certainly sounds... odd. Someone would have noticed that by now if it was a normal problem. That's 2/3rds of your auto-shots, it'd be hard to miss.

[Inject]

I haven't experienced any shot clipping... that sounds like some other problem. Did you at least have Recount or something open to see how many hits it recorded? You could be misinterpreting Quartz and the mod you used is just buggy. Certainly sounds... odd. Someone would have noticed that by now if it was a normal problem. That's 2/3rds of your auto-shots, it'd be hard to miss.

do you have /cast !Auto Shot tied to all your shots?

[Zeherah]

I've noticed that my special shots are also clipping my auto shots. Has anyone else been experiencing this? I was wondering why my DPS was so much lower than it should have been but I picked up this addon called "DPS Check" and it tells you if auto shots fail to land, etc. I did a stand still test on the target dummies without moving at all and I had 227 out of 600(possible) auto shots cast. I figured maybe the addon was bugged but I then started checking my quartz swing timer and they were definitely being clipped. I'm not sure why this would be happening.

Actually I noticed something similar. I'm not sure if it's clipping or what, but I was comparing some logs to my site results last night and I noticed my autoshot count was low. Did some testing and I found that just standing and autoshotting the dummy gave me the correct autoshot speed, but when I used my other shots I was getting on average a .16 sec slower autoshot, and my autoshot times were bouncing all over the place instead of being relatively close to the expected time like they were with just autoshotting. I tested under both BM and SV and was seeing the same issue.

With regards to normalization, I checked last night and it doesn't look like it was fixed in 4.0.3 but it's definitely fixed on beta so worst comes to worst it'll be addressed in a few weeks. Improved serpent sting is fixed there too, but sadly most of the rest of my bug list has yet to be addressed.

[Inject]

Actually I noticed something similar. I'm not sure if it's clipping or what, but I was comparing some logs to my site results last night and I noticed my autoshot count was low. Did some testing and I found that just standing and autoshotting the dummy gave me the correct autoshot speed, but when I used my other shots I was getting on average a .16 sec slower autoshot, and my autoshot times were bouncing all over the place instead of being relatively close to the expected time like they were with just autoshotting. I tested under both BM and SV and was seeing the same issue.

With regards to normalization, I checked last night and it doesn't look like it was fixed in 4.0.3 but it's definitely fixed on beta so worst comes to worst it'll be addressed in a few weeks. Improved serpent sting is fixed there too, but sadly most of the rest of my bug list has yet to be addressed.

Are you using /cast !Auto Shot with all of your shots? And also are you using this new Latency Tolerance option? It seems to be worse for me when it's enabled.

[Zeherah]

I didn't think to check that before, but I just looked and my steady shot is macroed with a /cast !Auto Shot. My other abilities aren't but perhaps that was the problem since I was using that. Given ! is supposed to prevent it from doing anything unless the ability is currently off I'm not sure why that would cause a problem, but perhaps it's broken. I don't have the latency tolerance option on.

I'll do more extensive testing later tonight when I'm done with work.

[Inject]

I didn't think to check that before, but I just looked and my steady shot is macroed with a /cast !Auto Shot. My other abilities aren't but perhaps that was the problem since I was using that. Given ! is supposed to prevent it from doing anything unless the ability is currently off I'm not sure why that would cause a problem, but perhaps it's broken. I don't have the latency tolerance option on.

I'll do more extensive testing later tonight when I'm done with work.

The weird part about it is auto shot is macro'd to all my abilities and it's still getting clipped. I'm at work now so I can't test it without auto shot in the macro but I'll let you know if it changes. Before 4.0 I never had it macro'd into my shots and everything was fine but when 4.0 came out I heard everyone saying to add it to every special ability. I always thought auto shot clipping was fixed. We'll see what happens.

[rasmil]

Yeah but it's only a couple more weeks till cata and then everything will be fixed.

And Blizz will give us all lollipops and rainbows! Seriously, "Cata will fix it" posts are neither constructive or true. The same issues on live persist on beta for the most part, and mechanic weaknesses, particularly in pvp, are much the same.

[harky]

do you have /cast !Auto Shot tied to all your shots?

No, I don't. What would be the purpose? That was useful with TBC BM macros, but that's about all. I do have my lag tolerance set at 80 (my latency is usually ~40), that's the only thing that might be different. I wasn't having any shots come up missing before 4.0.3 either though.

[Ninjamoo]

And Blizz will give us all lollipops and rainbows! Seriously, "Cata will fix it" posts are neither constructive or true. The same issues on live persist on beta for the most part, and mechanic weaknesses, particularly in pvp, are much the same.

Well seeing as I'm in Beta and the OP was complaining about shot normalization... yes, it will indeed be fixed in cata...

[Zeherah]

No, I don't. What would be the purpose? That was useful with TBC BM macros, but that's about all.

The only real purpose to it that I'm aware of is to force your autoshot to fire immediately as opposed to after another shot when opening fire with an ability after having stopped shooting. At least, I remember that being the argument for putting it in macros. I haven't done any extensive testing on how this works personally though, so it may be that there's special benefit to it. I'll add that to my list of things to test.

I didn't notice the shot count issue before 4.0.3 but I honestly wasn't really looking for it till now, so I can't say whether it's a change or not.

[Ninjamoo]

The only real purpose to it that I'm aware of is to force your autoshot to fire immediately as opposed to after another shot when opening fire with an ability after having stopped shooting. At least, I remember that being the argument for putting it in macros. I haven't done any extensive testing on how this works personally though, so it may be that there's special benefit to it. I'll add that to my list of things to test.

I didn't notice the shot count issue before 4.0.3 but I honestly wasn't really looking for it till now, so I can't say whether it's a change or not.

Pretty much this... the ! is the notoggle function. Basically once this is used (take the old Volley as an example) the spell will not turn off until cast. Meaning if you put /cast !Volley into a macro and then pressed volley again, it wouldn't remove the circle on the ground. the targetting circle would stay there until you cancelled it.

/cast !Auto Shot basically tells wow that it needs to finish firing this auto shot before accepting the next command (such as steady/cobra shot).

So like Zeherah was saying, if you press Cobra Shot it will fire that...then an auto shot... with /cast !Auto Shot /cast Cobra Shot it will begin firing an auto shot and then activate cobra shot afterwards without delaying the auto shot.

[Zeherah]

I just checked and by switching to a non-macroed version of Steady Shot, the slow autoshots mostly went away (the average was still a bit slower than my pure autoshot tests so I'm not sure it's the entire issue). So for now I'm getting rid of that, but I'm pretty sure that /cast !Auto Shot shouldn't cause this type of problem so it's most likely a bug.

I also checked and was able to verify that there is a functional difference between just casting Steady Shot and having a macro for Steady Shot with /cast !Auto Shot. When I don't have that in the macro the autoshot doesn't fire till after the steady shot. When I do it fires before the steady shot. So if this gets fixed it is slightly advantageous to have a macro. I'm not sure if there's really much benefit for instant shots but certainly for cast time shots).

[Will]

Okay I tested it in-game and I'm not noticing any steady shot clipping.
I timed the interval between my auto shots and they indeed fired off during steady shot mid-cast. Sometimes the two shots fired off at the same time so unless you're watching the damage numbers or combat log it visually looks like one shot was fired.

For reference i'm not using any fancy macro. Just /cast Steady Shot.