Having trouble with ferals

[Wolfgank]

In many situations i'm left 1v1 with a feral. Ok pvp isn't balanced there but I seem to die way too fast. Basically it goes down like this. I try to kite him at first, COI + HB + DC, he jumps me applies a few bleeds, then goes bearform, I activate IBF to avoid the dumbass stun, but the bleeds cut me down. On the other hand he takes some damage in cat form, and when he enters bearform I barely dent his ass. I got about 1.2k resilience and about 37k hp and I'm in blood presence, but those bleeds just eat me up in a few seconds.

Any advice?

[Gungtah]

You can't.

There's basically nothing you can do.

[Wolfgank]

That can't be right.

[Gungtah]

"Feral druids would be way higher if we had more of them out there. Unfortunately the likes of feral hero Talason is rare but the class is doing even more damage than mages. Their bleed effects ticks for more than my entire rupture, and it is probably the only class that can put shadow priest hero Talbadar on farm status."

From Ming, in reference to a poll on AJ.

[Cheezee]

It's just a combination of mechanics. Mangle increases bleed damage by 30%. Mastery increases bleed damage by 25% + 3.1% per mastery point. With just a little bit of mastery you can almost completely negate any resilience the victim has.

Now show some respect and bow to your feral overlords.

[Nangz]

Ferals really are insane at the moment. Your best bet is to try kiting them or bursting them before they get rip up. If they get a 5 cp rip up you're done. End of story. ( Assuming mangle is up)

[Quadros]

Well, i can give a few tips.. First, unlike a rogue, you have to trinket off the OPENER stun. During that time he is gonna build combos on you and put 5cp rip and.. well.. R.I.P %)
Trinket the stun ASAP and start kiting doing as much magical ranged damage as possible. Dont run away too far though, stay kinda close but out of melee range. Because if you DO get too far he will charge at you, and not only get in melee range but also a proc for free Ravage, and it hits just like Ambush/Ravage is supposed to, only it wont require stealth and behind the target position this time. Im sorry but my own DK is retired at the moment, so im out of touch about 4.0 gameplay.. But from the experience of playing my feral, i could say that desecration with slow and chains of ice with ghoul beating on the druid and diseases ticking is the most threatening strategy. And i have actually died a few times to those kind of DKs.. Admittedly they are uber rare.. Most DKs ive met, go like this: Sit in stun whole the 4 seconds, then panic about, trying to burst me down in melee, then die, i dont even have to switch to bear form..

Hope it helps.. Competition is fun. Killing clueless people is not.

---------- Post added 2010-11-23 at 05:24 AM ----------

Also a small note about resilience.. There is no thing as "negates resilience". It helps greatly.. Those dots ticking for 9-12k on PvE targets, you absolutely wont want to get them in PvE gear, no matter how much stamina you would have.. But it seems to me a general PvP rule for fighting any class and spec, dunno why people still need a reminder..

( Assuming mangle is up)

It is always up. It is a main combo points generation tool in PvP and lasts for 1 minute.

[Wolfgank]

So there is no way to avoid or lessen the bleed damage? Cause that's the real problem right there. I mean, a feral has this - apply bleeds, go to bearform and wait it out. No way to heal with DP or DS, I can give myself a few more seconds with Lichborne and DC but that's it. After that I'm dead, at range or close, it does not matter because it's the bleeds that kill me. So while I understand what you say, however there's no way in hell I can keep away from them because they charge, because they can't really be kited and it takes them so little to apply the bleeds. So all I can do is find a way to take that damage, well, better.

[Quadros]

So there is no way to avoid or lessen the bleed damage? Cause that's the real problem right there. I mean, a feral has this - apply bleeds, go to bearform and wait it out. No way to heal with DP or DS, I can give myself a few more seconds with Lichborne and DC but that's it. After that I'm dead, at range or close, it does not matter because it's the bleeds that kill me. So while I understand what you say, however there's no way in hell I can keep away from them because they charge, because they can't really be kited and it takes them so little to apply the bleeds. So all I can do is find a way to take that damage, well, better.

Yes, you can kite feral, have a round of duels and practice on it. And yes, you can avoid or lessen the bleeds by not letting him build 5 combo points on you. Charge has 8 yards minimal range, it is out of melee which is 5, you can avoid charge too. I have seen people successfully doing this, that means it can be done. Bleeds alone will not kill you that fast. Full 5-combo rip with mangle of a wrathful-geared feral would tick for like 5k on a decent resilience target every 2 seconds, and rake for another 5k every 3 seconds..

Other than that.. Reroll dwarf for bleed removal racial is your only bet. But hey, shadow priest dots hit almost as hard as feral's and it's only 1 click to apply and 40 yards range, and you can't remove them either. Hardly worth it to fight one under-represented spec during last 2 weeks of screwed up pvp that we have now. At 85 with tremendous ratings decay, the ferals will only have one third of the mastery they got now, basically those bleeds are gonna tick for the same amount at 85 but YOU are going to have 160k HP..

Honestly, ferals are so rare, aside from fotm rerollers which are no threat in feral case, because this class does require advanced skill to pull off. While playing on my warlock i've yet to meet a killer feral in BGs.. Occasional lol-kitties with subpar gear and no knowledge that i eat alive is all i saw so far.. I'd say mages that infest battle grounds are the thing to worry about at the moment..

[Bro man dude]

Roll a dorf

[Wolfgank]

When they give them to the horde I honestly will.

[Cheezee]

Also a small note about resilience.. There is no thing as "negates resilience". It helps greatly.. Those dots ticking for 9-12k on PvE targets, you absolutely wont want to get them in PvE gear, no matter how much stamina you would have.. But it seems to me a general PvP rule for fighting any class and spec, dunno why people still need a reminder..

Let me clarify my statement a bit.

At 1200 resilience you should take 38% less damage from players and their pets. So all player damage done to you is multiplied by 0.62. With 15 total mastery (8 base + 7 reforged) a feral's bleeds are increased by 46.5%. So Rake and Rip tick for ~91% of what they would on a target with no resilience. If he's smart he will use Tiger's Fury right before he applies Rip so it gets an additional 15% damage increase and probably refresh rake which means his bleeds are ticking for more than the would if he had 0 mastery and you had 0 resilience. Now combine all of this with a feral druid's ridiculously high crit chance and you can see pretty easily why their bleeds are viewed as OP right now.

[Wolfgank]

Yes, you can kite feral, have a round of duels and practice on it. And yes, you can avoid or lessen the bleeds by not letting him build 5 combo points on you. Charge has 8 yards minimal range, it is out of melee which is 5, you can avoid charge too. I have seen people successfully doing this, that means it can be done. Bleeds alone will not kill you that fast. Full 5-combo rip with mangle of a wrathful-geared feral would tick for like 5k on a decent resilience target every 2 seconds, and rake for another 5k every 3 seconds..

Other than that.. Reroll dwarf for bleed removal racial is your only bet. But hey, shadow priest dots hit almost as hard as feral's and it's only 1 click to apply and 40 yards range, and you can't remove them either. Hardly worth it to fight one under-represented spec during last 2 weeks of screwed up pvp that we have now. At 85 with tremendous ratings decay, the ferals will only have one third of the mastery they got now, basically those bleeds are gonna tick for the same amount at 85 but YOU are going to have 160k HP..

Honestly, ferals are so rare, aside from fotm rerollers which are no threat in feral case, because this class does require advanced skill to pull off. While playing on my warlock i've yet to meet a killer feral in BGs.. Occasional lol-kitties with subpar gear and no knowledge that i eat alive is all i saw so far.. I'd say mages that infest battle grounds are the thing to worry about at the moment..

No you really can't. We are talking about good ferals. Perhaps I suck, oddly only against ferals,I've been dueling with my friend for the past two hours, but I can't kite him more than a few seconds.
And I won't reroll just so I can deal with one class, one spec that is obviously OP, since I've seen the numbers. And I have trouble seeing the skill involved in Pounce - Bleeds - Bearform. Apparently there is nothing I can do. Whoever said there's nothing you can do was right. And I'm sorry, being rare does not give you the right to be OP, however you aren't really rare.

Thanks for the advice to all that posted. This thread no longer has a point.

[Shindi]

Its hard to kite a good feral druid with skull bash and all : (
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80965
Thats basicly a charge without stun so we can catch up enemy within 13 yard range while not needing to have 8 yard minimum range of our charge

good luck with your tactical planning agaisnt ferals

[Cheezee]

And I won't reroll just so I can deal with one class, one spec that is obviously OP, since I've seen the numbers. And I have trouble seeing the skill involved in Pounce - Bleeds - Bearform. Apparently there is nothing I can do. Whoever said there's nothing you can do was right. And I'm sorry, being rare does not give you the right to be OP, however you aren't really rare.

What about it do you consider to be OP? Putting up bleeds and then using a damage reducing form is just a style of game play similar to a DK using Frost Presence to apply diseases and then using Blood Presence to reduce incoming damage. Besides, if they nerfed feral bleeds they would have to buff damage in other areas to compensate which just leads to people bitching about being destroyed by mangle or shred or something.

[Wolfgank]

What about it do you consider to be OP? Putting up bleeds and then using a damage reducing form is just a style of game play similar to a DK using Frost Presence to apply diseases and then using Blood Presence to reduce incoming damage. Besides, if they nerfed feral bleeds they would have to buff damage in other areas to compensate which just leads to people bitching about being destroyed by mangle or shred or something.

When a set of DK diseases kill you in PVP gear I'll agree with you. What I consider OP is, one, they kill you, two, they kill you fast, lastly there's no way to defend against them. And yes, as long as they give you damage that can be mitigated one way or another, I think it's fine, the way it is now just does not do. But we can agree on one thing, it's hard to find good ferals, you sure aren't one of em.

[Dalavita]

What about it do you consider to be OP? Putting up bleeds and then using a damage reducing form is just a style of game play similar to a DK using Frost Presence to apply diseases and then using Blood Presence to reduce incoming damage.

Haha.

Let me go with a breakdown of class dots from personal experience so far.

Ferals, seen ticks of 4-7k+.
Shadow priests, second on that list, seen average ticks of 3k.
Affliction locks. 2-3k.
Boomkins and fire mages. 1k.
Death Knights, frost fever crit for 300.

Fuck yeah those OP DKs!

Don't worry tho. 85 will fix it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzGMLrKZj_8

[Cheezee]

When a set of DK diseases kill you in PVP gear I'll agree with you. What I consider OP is, one, they kill you, two, they kill you fast, lastly there's no way to defend against them. And yes, as long as they give you damage that can be mitigated one way or another, I think it's fine, the way it is now just does not do. But we can agree on one thing, it's hard to find good ferals, you sure aren't one of em.

So I ask what you consider to be OP and the first thing you say is that they are able to kill you. Did you think that being a hero class made you immortal? Sorry, this is 4.0, not 3.0.

I told you that feral bleeds are reduced by resilience but with mastery and other mechanics we are able to make up for it. Bleeds are also around half of our damage now so they are going to hit hard, your damage is more spread out over your abilities so your diseases make up a smaller portion of it therefor they deal less damage.

Bleeds are not removable because the application cost is too high. If a feral were to apply full bleeds only to have them dispelled a second after they were up then bleeds (and therefor the feral) would be completely gimp. To put a 5 point rip up we need a minimum of 135 energy (assuming 2 mangle crits and 1 rake crit) up to a maximum of 205 energy (assuming no crits). You're looking at 14 to 21 seconds of time lost if bleeds were dispelled. Compare that to other dot classes which have almost no lost opportunity cost and can even have resources refunded for dot removal.

It's probably a good thing it's hard to find good ferals. If you die so easily to the bad ones you would probably quit after a good one tore you apart a few times. Blizzard would lose money and stop supporting WoW and then I would have to find something else to do to occupy my time. How's your mom?

Haha.

Let me go with a breakdown of class dots from personal experience so far.

Ferals, seen ticks of 4-7k+.
Shadow priests, second on that list, seen average ticks of 3k.
Affliction locks. 2-3k.
Boomkins and fire mages. 1k.
Death Knights, frost fever crit for 300.

Fuck yeah those OP DKs!

Don't worry tho. 85 will fix it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzGMLrKZj_8

So you gathered this data from a BG parse? Recount? Skada? Or just the flashing numbers you see on your screen?

Casters do not stack mastery the way ferals do so they do not receive higher damage ticks.
Mastery only affects our bleeds, most caster masteries affects all the damage they do.
Casters stack haste which increases the amount of ticks their dots generate over the given spell duration which equals more damage.
Haste also allows casters more throughput from spells that actually have a cast time.
No caster attack is mitigated by armor (unless they're dumb enough to melee somebody), feral melee and specials attacks are.
Mages & Boomkins are not dot classes.
DKs are also not a dot class. Your other damaging abilities make up for this fact.

What exactly is your vid supposed to prove? You can't see the druid's gear so for all you know he's in full PVE epics reforged for as much mastery as he can possibly get.

[Deleted]

I have 1100 resilience ( I know it's not much ) and I ended up in a 1v1 with a feral. Even got him out of stealth so pounce bullshit. I died in exactly 3 seconds. I should have probably lost but 3 fucking seconds ?!?

Feral damage is retarded atm and they are the 2nd most OP class.

[Bobbojonno]

I have 1100 resilience ( I know it's not much ) and I ended up in a 1v1 with a feral. Even got him out of stealth so pounce bullshit. I died in exactly 3 seconds. I should have probably lost but 3 fucking seconds ?!?

Feral damage is retarded atm and they are the 2nd most OP class.

I would say in PVP ferals are the strongest class...