Thorns nerf

[Mistgun]

I'm not here to complain about the nerf itself, but how they nerfed it. Blizz wanted to make thorns more of a defensive cd, instead of something you keep on yourself forever and does hardly any damage, but with the nerf it seems to go against that. Instead of nerfing the skill why not get rid of the glyph so it still stays a defensive cd, but only used when needed not just a 5 sec cd. Next thing you know they're going to increase the duration by 2 min but then nerf the damage some...

What do you think about the nerf?

[Deleted]

well the nerf itself is a little sad since I use it when pulling packs, since cata wont have so much aoe tanking it wont affect me as a feral tank so much. One thing tho! I would realy extremly mega super wana be able to put it on while in bearform since it's not on for ages now and it's a pain... well a small pain to shapeshift every time I can use it while pulling a pack.

On the other hand... since it's damage has been reduced so much i think it will be one of those spells that does not get a spot in my actionbar...

[jarmale]

been leveling druid pulling 10 targets hot self bearform 5 sec later al targets death nerf whas needed also seen some rogues die just by thorns on my 80 druid. I would like to see thorns change to a soort of spellreflect and that you can use it in all forms.

[Richmond]

Nerf it as much as they want for all i care, whilst it remains an ability that i can not cast whilst in bear/cat form, it will forever be almost useless to me.

Sure its on my action bar, and i occasionally use it if the pack i'm going to pull has +10 in it, but thats about it. I've never really understood why we can't use it in form either

[Rudy]

Nothing but another nerf for moonkin/resto pvp

[Mistgun]

been leveling druid pulling 10 targets hot self bearform 5 sec later al targets death nerf whas needed also seen some rogues die just by thorns on my 80 druid. I would like to see thorns change to a soort of spellreflect and that you can use it in all forms.

You missed my point, it is strong but with out the glyph you don't use it as much and as frequently. Thus by removing the glyph, no need to nerf it cause bad rogues and warriors QQ about it being always on.

but was the nerf really needed? We haven't seen it in action at lvl 85 in pvp gear, so why the nerf? I have a feeling it'll be useless at lvl 85.

[Madus]

Oh 6 years useless spell got useless after one month of glory, how shocking. Atleast we get new action bar space for another useless spell on 85 THE WILD MUSHROOMS ou yeah.

tldr: retarded devs are retarded.

[Melodi]

I've seen some linked damage reports of thorns from a tank guildie (mind you this was the glyphed version) and it's an insane amount of damage. Across the whole Heroic Nexus it did more damage than any other ability he used. This is a fully 277 geared warrior to put that in perspective. It will be sad to see it nerfed as I personally put it on the tanks every time it's off cooldown in raids/instances. I wish I had the Recount report link he sent me still to post it, but you get the point.

[Fojos]

Nerf it as much as they want for all i care, whilst it remains an ability that i can not cast whilst in bear/cat form, it will forever be almost useless to me.

Sure its on my action bar, and i occasionally use it if the pack i'm going to pull has +10 in it, but thats about it. I've never really understood why we can't use it in form either

Was funny using it on easier packs in BETA, with it hitting for more than 5k.

[Richmond]

I've seen some linked damage reports of thorns from a tank guildie (mind you this was the glyphed version) and it's an insane amount of damage. Across the whole Heroic Nexus it did more damage than any other ability he used. This is a fully 277 geared warrior to put that in perspective. It will be sad to see it nerfed as I personally put it on the tanks every time it's off cooldown in raids/instances. I wish I had the Recount report link he sent me still to post it, but you get the point.

I seriously doubt it... Unless your warrior has gona AFK or something? On a boss fight with an average swing timer, your probably talking about a thorns hit every 2 seconds or something?

To put it in perspective, i was in a OS Zerg the other day and the warrior that was tanking pulled of almost 5k DPS - single target and he certainly wasn't in 277 gear, maybe 260 at best. I seriously doubt thorns can keep up with that, unless you had about 10 druids casting it on him at the same time (if that even works)

[Elunedra]

been leveling druid pulling 10 targets hot self bearform 5 sec later al targets death nerf whas needed also seen some rogues die just by thorns on my 80 druid. I would like to see thorns change to a soort of spellreflect and that you can use it in all forms.

exactly the nerf was verry neeeded

sad ofcourse but needed

[hellboyy]

it was a bit op. ive seen rogues, feral druids kill themselves just attacking me, all i did was use thorns. but the nerf just makes it not worthwile, i'll be better off using a cd on sumthing else to get away or put the pressure back on them.

[Sunfyre]

My biggest issue is the equation for Thorns (160 + ([SP|AP]*168)) values AP and Spellpower at a 1:1 ratio, where it's rather obvious that spellpower will never be anywhere close to feral cat (or especially a bear with vengeance) AP. It seems kind of odd that a balance spell is far more superior for ferals then balance.

[Deleted]

The only reason i used thorns was to put on tanks just before they pull and occasionally throughout boss fights. I haven't tanked myself in quite a while, but i can see how the nerf would reduce initial threat when pulling packs. Blizzard just want to make it tougher on tanks when taking on groups. And they wonder why not many tanks sign up for dungeon queues.
I can however see that it was OP in PVP, so what can i say? I guess the nerf is needed. I wouldn't mind seeing a glyph in the future that increases the amount of damage done by damage taken. You know, to make it useful on raid bosses, but not so much that it would one shot melee in pvp.

[Deleted]

Glyphed Thorns was a bit OP. As resto I used it on CD on the tank and Thorns damage was 2nd or 3rd of the tank's damaging abilities, doing like 20% of the tank's overall damage. That's clearly too much.

Although I do agree that getting rid of the glyph would have been a better solution..

[Beetlejuice]

the best solution would have been to make the glyph "can be used in feral form" . Still can't believe they did not make it usable in feral form. For years ferals were the only ones who really used it and now they are the only ones who can't.

[exochaft]

Glyphed Thorns was a bit OP. As resto I used it on CD on the tank and Thorns damage was 2nd or 3rd of the tank's damaging abilities, doing like 20% of the tank's overall damage. That's clearly too much.

Although I do agree that getting rid of the glyph would have been a better solution..

From a PvE and PvP perspective, it's really the glyph that's imbalanced, not the ability per se.

In PvE, sure, you can have druids chain-cast Thorns on the tank (it's fun doing Many Whelps, Handle It! with Thorns), but since this can be cast on ANY tank, the change is geared more towards the ability rather than the power of druids. Heck, they could've just boosted the mana cost enough to make it hit mana bars hard and this likely would solve the problem of druids attempting to chain-cast Thorns.

I'm fairly certain this is a PvP nerf. However, it feels more catering to tunnel-visioners than actually looking for the real answer. My guess is that melee classes complained excessively- correction, they DID do that- that it was killing them. Sure, I've seen countless rogues/DKs/feral druids/shamans/etc kill themselves on my Thorns in PvP... but if leaving feral form to cast something that makes me have a swirling animation wasn't a big enough hint, the huge damage you take while hitting me should've been the next big clue. I've maybe found 2 rogues and 1 feral druid since 4.0.1 that had a clue and dealt with Thorns properly, make minimal contact and try to CC me until Thorns wears off... and since PvP isn't balanced around 1v1 and Blizz is concerned about rated PvP, it's not like Thorns cannot be dispelled.

In the end, this feels like a classic case of Blizz giving us a tool, then providing a way to boost its utility without a consequence. Glyph of Thorns reduces the cooldown on Thorns and... nothing else. An appropriate action would have been adding a consequence, say the glyph also reduces the damage done by Thorns, or decreases the duration, or something that makes the glyph a trade-off rather than an instant win. Case and point would be Glyph of Entangling Roots: originally it just reduces the cast time by 100% and nothing else, the appropriate answer was adding a cooldown to the ability to limit its use.

[whysperr]

It's supposed to be a deterrent to make melee classes think twice about attacking a Thorns'd target, or use a CD to survive it. Especially since we have to cast it preemptively.

If they want to keep the damage low, then we should at least be able to increase uptime. Perhaps we should be allowed to cast it while stunned, like Barkskin?

[Mistgun]

From a PvE and PvP perspective, it's really the glyph that's imbalanced, not the ability per se.

In PvE, sure, you can have druids chain-cast Thorns on the tank (it's fun doing Many Whelps, Handle It! with Thorns), but since this can be cast on ANY tank, the change is geared more towards the ability rather than the power of druids. Heck, they could've just boosted the mana cost enough to make it hit mana bars hard and this likely would solve the problem of druids attempting to chain-cast Thorns.

I'm fairly certain this is a PvP nerf. However, it feels more catering to tunnel-visioners than actually looking for the real answer. My guess is that melee classes complained excessively- correction, they DID do that- that it was killing them. Sure, I've seen countless rogues/DKs/feral druids/shamans/etc kill themselves on my Thorns in PvP... but if leaving feral form to cast something that makes me have a swirling animation wasn't a big enough hint, the huge damage you take while hitting me should've been the next big clue. I've maybe found 2 rogues and 1 feral druid since 4.0.1 that had a clue and dealt with Thorns properly, make minimal contact and try to CC me until Thorns wears off... and since PvP isn't balanced around 1v1 and Blizz is concerned about rated PvP, it's not like Thorns cannot be dispelled.

In the end, this feels like a classic case of Blizz giving us a tool, then providing a way to boost its utility without a consequence. Glyph of Thorns reduces the cooldown on Thorns and... nothing else. An appropriate action would have been adding a consequence, say the glyph also reduces the damage done by Thorns, or decreases the duration, or something that makes the glyph a trade-off rather than an instant win. Case and point would be Glyph of Entangling Roots: originally it just reduces the cast time by 100% and nothing else, the appropriate answer was adding a cooldown to the ability to limit its use.

QFT

I'm tired of bliz favoring the baddies in this game. If you see thorns on someone stop attacking him, i'v had rogues kill me before easily, same with shamans, and warriors. All they need is a little common sense and thorns shouldn't be a problem. The damage is high now, but what skill doesn't do an insane amount of damage right now? Fail on blizzs part for nerfing a skill that wasn't even able to be tested on lvl 85.

[Wiyld]

totally agree with above, knee jerk reaction to baddies is bad