Looks like the Taurens have gotten a problem!

[koranes]

well lets all grab the grill and head for TB for some t-bones. cause the tauren, well they tryed to build a wall and epic failed.

[Cavolo]

I don't think many of the Alliance players have actually gone through the Horde questline in South Barrens that deals directly with the Razing of Taurajo. I haven't played through the Alliance end of it, so I don't know the motivations or who ordered what, but their are a number of facts that are revealed in the Horde quests:

1) The Alliance who participated in the take, irregardless of who ordered what, were killing anything that moved, including women and children. This is what caused so scant few refugees by the Taurens reckoning to make it. One Tauren women mentioned that by mere luck she made it through the Alliance lines and if she hadn't she would have been killed by Alliance soldiers (she's in Camp Una'fe) along with a child. The father of said child is in the fortified Horde camp just north of the ruins of Taurajo, who tells you that his wife never made it out.

I don't know if there were actually orders for the town civilians to be allowed to retreat, but if their were, they weren't carried out. Ultimately, then if falls on the head of the General leading the forces and also the sovereign who sent them there. That, since these guys are Theramore soldiers, would be Jaina Proudmoore, who shares responsibility even if she wasn't the author of that particular atrocity. I imagine Thrall is going to have some very harsh words for her once this mess gets straightened out, particularly since Theramore was only allowed to exist after the Third War because of Jaina's promise to Thrall that the town wouldn't be used against the Horde.

2) The Alliance attacked Taurajo when most of the braves in the town were out hunting, or that is what you are told by either the ghosts of one of the fallen or a survivor (I forget which). The reason you have a disproportionate amount of Tauren warriors around there is because the Alliance timed their attack on Taurajo when it has as poorly defended as possible, which given it wasn't a fortified town but a savannah trading post, means there weren't much more than civilians present when the Alliance hit it. The Alliance did kill unarmed people there, for certain. When you talk to the ghost of the Leatherworker trainer there, he tells you that he was forced to defend himself against Alliance soldiers with one of his skinning knives, because he had nothing else to fight back with when they stormed the town. Certainly the Horde sees what they did as absurdly dishonorable, must more so than if the Alliance had met the Tauren in direct battle and won. This is why one of the last Horde quests you do down there is killing and stringing up the corpse of the Alliance general who ordered the attack, not because he attacked them (Horde members can understand that) but because his men butchered innocent civilians while their men were away.

Further, we know that Taurajo was undefended because of the Hordes own reaction to it. Bloodhilt, the orc who found himself in charge of the Tauren warriors who survived Taurajo, goes to Desolation Hold where the Horde command in the region is, specifically because it was the job of Desolation Hold to send forces to defend Taurajo if it came under attack and the Warlord Gar'dul failed to do so. Bloodhilt, ah, takes umbridge with his reasoning, to say the least and invokes the "Victory or Be Chucked Out a Window By Someone Who Takes the War Seriously" clause in his contract.

My own opinion?
The Alliance had a legitimate reason to attack Taurajo from their perspective, certainly. They don't know anything about the Tauren. The Tauren are eight foot tall super strong minotaurs who are skilled warriors and they've probably observed the Tauren, who hunt the equivalent of Elephants with bows and spears. That's pretty damn intimidating. They also clearly don't see them as "people". I know Alliance players occasionally like to Disney up the Alliance in terms of honor and nobility, but the fact is that the humans in the Alliance are culturally somewhat similar to medieval Earth humans, in that "chivalry" and "honor" and "a fair fight" only applies to other guys like you, not to guys from other cultures and certainly not to hunter-gatherer savages who are allied with the people you've got serious beef with. Remember, Theramore, in recent memory was conquered by the Horde, which include Tauren forces which may well have marched through Taurajo on their way to Theramore. With a wound like that and given that you do "chivalry" with dirty wogs like the Tauren, is anyone shocked that Alliance soldiers tried to kill every Tauren they found at Taurajo when they got the go ahead to do so? And remove a possible Horde military training center in the deal to make way for Alliance settlement? Makes bloody sense to me. The fact that they were wrong about the nature of Taurajo and that now the survivors of the massacre are going to make the Alliance pay in blood for their women and children who were dishonorably cut down (and do, if you take the Horde quest lines as true), well, the Alliance involved will get what they deserve at the end.

Taurajo didn't have anything to do with Southshore, or the Forsaken (I'd argue that the Forsaken had a more than legitimate excuse to raze Southshore, given that was the Alliance's port in the region). It was a stupid senseless tragedy that happens in war, and I guarantee you there will be alot more Taurajos and Southshores in the future.

[GennGreymane]

considering Alliance burned down camp T, yeah I's say they have a pretty good reason for wanting a giant ass "keep the fuck out of my land" wall.

Worked for Gilneas for 5 years.

actually more so
after 2ed war it was put up lasted well through the 3ed war

[apepi]

Man tauren's can sure build a wall faster then alliance can build bridges:O

[TheShinyOne]

Except Arthas never would have gone insane and lost his soul to Frostmourne and become a Death Knight if Ner'zhul (an orc) had never made a deal with the Burning Legion in the first place. After all, the Lich King was originally Ner'zhul trapped within the Frozen Throne. So therefore we can blame the orcs for the Scourge.

And the Orcs would never have came into contact with the Burning Legion, had the Draenei not lead them to the Orcs' planet. Draenei are in Alliance, so the ball is once again in your court.

As for Illidan, he was disowned by the Night Elves, if you recall. He was banished from Kalimdor by Malfurion. And he was used by Kil'jaden to attempt to destroy the Lich King; it was losing to Arthas that broke the last of Illidans sanity and sent him down the path he went in Outland. So in a round-about way, orcs are to blame for Illidan, too. Hell, a good number of the problems in Azeroth wouldn't exist if the orcs had never invaded in the First War.

Not Orcs, Draenei.

Astrannar is under siege by the Horde. You were thinking of some other town.

Indeed I was, but I just passed through Astranaar and it is virgin. Perhaps the siege is through quests?

And as I stated, as far as lorewise go, most people view Putress and his followers as part of the Forsaken and could care less or don't know that they were a splinter group.

So there are incorrect people, thus they are correct? Regardless of what incorrect people think, Putress and his underlings were agents of the Burning Legion. To say that Putress' doings are of the Horde is to say that the Satyr and their doings are of the Night Elves.

[Replicate]

Finally a reason for tauren to start punting Dwarves and Gnomes.

[orcshaman24]

As for Illidan, he was disowned by the Night Elves, if you recall. He was banished from Kalimdor by Malfurion. And he was used by Kil'jaden to attempt to destroy the Lich King; it was losing to Arthas that broke the last of Illidans sanity and sent him down the path he went in Outland. So in a round-about way, orcs are to blame for Illidan, too. Hell, a good number of the problems in Azeroth wouldn't exist if the orcs had never invaded in the First War.

By using an out of context means to blame the orcs, I'm using your same illogical argument. The Draenei then are responsible for all of this, since they came to Draenor.

[xile]

Putress was a member of the Forsaken. The excuse that 'it was Varimathras, not us' doesn't hold water. Putress was Forsaken and so were his followers. If Horde are going to keep complaining about an insignificant cluster of tents getting burned down, 'then it wasn't us, it was the soldiers violating their orders that are to blame'.

LOL REALLY? My bad, are you white? Can i blame you for every bad act committed by a white person? Say hello to the holocaust. Are you middle-eastern? Can i blame you for any act of terrorism ever committed? Are you human? Can i blame you for any act of pain any human has ever caused? Point being, Putress went off his rocker and made the attack against the views of sylvannas, The alliance soldiers were ordered to kill the innocent people of Camp T. but nice try there bro.

---------- Post added 2010-11-28 at 04:40 AM ----------

By using an out of context means to blame the orcs, I'm using your same illogical argument. The Draenei then are responsible for all of this, since they came to Draenor.

What he said entirely. If you want to blame one race that is currently allied to a faction blame either the old high elves for attracting the burning legion in the first place for their extreme use of arcane power, or the draenei for bringing the burning legion to draenor and in turn corrupting the orcs.

[Romire]

Man tauren's can sure build a wall faster then alliance can build bridges:O

go to Redridge, it took em 6 years to build a fucking bridge!

[vian]

Due to some overconsumption of Whiskey, I got stuck by that gate/wall for about an hour trying to get past it. Later noticed that you can simply walk around it lol.

[orcshaman24]

The gate was likely put up at some speed when Camp T came under fire. Well it has a sideways into it for smaller figures its design is to keep tanks and other siege weapons coming into mulgore.

Hey, you could lead an army of seige weapons into the front gate of stormwind with there open door policy, at least the Tauren closed there doors unlike humans.

[Fablewynd]

There is no chance bolvar is coming back unless kil jaeden comes back in full body form, if there is one enemy that both bolvar and nerzhul can agree on wanting to kill, it's kil jaeden.

Hate to break it to you, but Ner'zhul is done with.

If you call getting ripped to shreds by a bunch of fuckin' howling things and then having the walking dead invade your lands "working", heh.

Well, the worgen was an internal thing, so the wall worked there, and it kept the Forsaken at bay for many years before they acted upon the destruction of gate because of the Cataclysm and brought troops in by land and sea.

So it did kinda work, really.

C
x

[Romire]

The gate was likely put up at some speed when Camp T came under fire. Well it has a sideways into it for smaller figures its design is to keep tanks and other siege weapons coming into mulgore.

Hey, you could lead an army of seige weapons into the front gate of stormwind with there open door policy, at least the Tauren closed there doors unlike humans.

Allies werent thinkin that

[Hypro]

you know whats impressive? they gave themself time to detail it with a Eagle Totem on the front door. even if it would take Alliance a few minutes to get from Camp T to Gate. which makes the question, how DID they maked it so fast?

A. BRO its a game we can destory the world in a few secs if we like
B. Who said they werent building b4 camp t sacked

[saberon]

Putress was a member of the Forsaken. The excuse that 'it was Varimathras, not us' doesn't hold water. Putress was Forsaken and so were his followers. If Horde are going to keep complaining about an insignificant cluster of tents getting burned down, 'then it wasn't us, it was the soldiers violating their orders that are to blame'.

So, I guess that since Arthas was human, the scourge was the Alliance's fault?

[rated]

Doesnt open afiak. I think you have to take the boat to org and go into the northern barrens as tauren now.

From my experience this is true. I tried every way I could to jump off that big wall and it just wont let you.

[Deleted]

wow. okay, so I have never posted on MMO before I just generally read for wow updates and lol at the flame wars..but I guess im bored at the moment.
All I can see this thread breaking down into is YOU started it...no YOU started it...no YOU started it.
Guys.
Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that went wrong can be traced far enough back to end in burning leagon or old gods, so quit pointing fingers.
Also. there is a quest line on the ally side that explains how camp T was training horde hunters for use in the war and as it was very close to an ally settlement it had to go. there were HUGE gaps left in the lines for Civilians to escape (this was criticized by high command as they would have preferable to have hostages, but eh)

but both quests are going to be Bias. im just glad that Horde and Allys have swaped around, mixed it up a bit. old world was getting stale

also. big flowery gate caused by overly zelous camp druids watching too many home makeover shows. has nothing to do with the war.

[Ken_Silver]

John J. Keshan put it best: War is Hell. In war ,both sides are going to do evil. Hopefully, there will be peace in Azeroth, but in the end, each side is going to consider the other side as immoral or something of the like.

What makes it worse is that the Alliance strives to do the "right thing" and then we go and burn down Camp T. Revenge or not, it is wrong. But we did it. At least the Horde doesn't lie about playing dirty. =/

I want the the heads of the Alliance guys who burned that place down on a stick. =(

[BallsofThunder]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but its Tauren, not Taurens. Sorry, really bugs me.

[orcshaman24]

John J. Keshan put it best: War is Hell. In war ,both sides are going to do evil. Hopefully, there will be peace in Azeroth, but in the end, each side is going to consider the other side as immoral or something of the like.

What makes it worse is that the Alliance strives to do the "right thing" and then we go and burn down Camp T. Revenge or not, it is wrong. But we did it. At least the Horde doesn't lie about playing dirty. =/

I want the the heads of the Alliance guys who burned that place down on a stick. =(

Hey I was pulling the 'planted' farmers in hillsbrad fields out from the earth instead of smashing there skulls with the shovel. And mines an orc. I might agree its a needed thing to fight the alliance, but not seeing what some of the forsaken do...

oh god.. those bears.. the spider eggs... /heave