I want to try Sub. Need advice.

[David Otunga]

Just for the general hell of it, I feel like trying Subtlety for the first time. However, I've got a couple of questions before I go and respec. Any help or advice would be appreciated

: How viable for PvE? How are the dps numbers on boss fights?
: main CP generator? How about for PvP?
: What are the rotations and priorities?
: should I give up Combat's AoE, or Mut's fun fun playstyle?

If anybody could toss me a few build and glyph ideas too that'd be great. A standard PvE/Raid build would work, as I generally don't spec for PvP; I just use my normal talents and switch to my Resil set.

[bigjohnburger]

Just for the general hell of it, I feel like trying Subtlety for the first time. However, I've got a couple of questions before I go and respec. Any help or advice would be appreciated

: How viable for PvE? How are the dps numbers on boss fights?
: main CP generator? How about for PvP?
: What are the rotations and priorities?
: should I give up Combat's AoE, or Mut's fun fun playstyle?

If anybody could toss me a few build and glyph ideas too that'd be great. A standard PvE/Raid build would work, as I generally don't spec for PvP; I just use my normal talents and switch to my Resil set.

your priorities are to keep up recuperate for the energy gains and keep up rupture-i think it's way better now that they fixed mastery, and of course you main attack is backstab and ambush when shadowdance is off cd. you'll also want to throw a garrot in right when you go into shadow dance.

you'll get use to it, it's really easy. and combo points will stack up fast in this spec. I think the glyphs are pretty self explanatory. You def want glyph of backstab.

[David Otunga]

HaT will also keep cp's rolling in, right? I just found that Encrypted Text has a few articles on this, but the link to their build didn't work because wowhead's page reset everything.

Garrote to start (or when using shadowdance), keep up Rupture, SnD, Recup, then Eviscerate if those other buffs/bleeds are still up. Does that look right? Also, i forgot where to toss Hemo in.

---------- Post added 2010-11-27 at 05:12 AM ----------

Oh, and I'm still not sure which spec I want to ditch to give this a shot. I'm not sure if Sub dps will warrant getting rid of assassination, or if I'd rather give up combat (and probably make myself useless on all but single target fights).

[bigjohnburger]

HaT will also keep cp's rolling in, right? I just found that Encrypted Text has a few articles on this, but the link to their build didn't work because wowhead's page reset everything.

Garrote to start (or when using shadowdance), keep up Rupture, SnD, Recup, then Eviscerate if those other buffs/bleeds are still up. Does that look right? Also, i forgot where to toss Hemo in.

ya once you garrote the target after using premed you'll have 5 dots then hit recuperate which will give you 25 energy back, then use shadow dance ambush once to get some combo points and use rupture- don't need full combo points because eviscerate will refresh the duration. then keep ambushing and using evis when you get 5 points until shadow dance wears off. then keep using backstab and maintain duration. when you see rupture getting low get a dot up and hit a quick evis which will bring it back up to full duration and of course keep recuperate up, gives insane energy regen.

[David Otunga]

Any idea on a build? I have something like 3/2/31 but I'm not entirely sure of everything that I take in Sub. Some talents look useful but I'm not sure if they're worth taking (Cheat Death, Enveloping Shadows)

---------- Post added 2010-11-27 at 05:53 AM ----------

Could somebody put a build up on WoWTal and link it? Wowhead keeps resetting to the base page everytime I follow a link there.

[Terradii]

http://wowtal.com/#k=YqtXKajdZ.a8t.rogue.RKp5jA

this is what i am using at the moment when i feel a little crazy and have some fun in Subt spec :')

however you can change one of those glyphs to evis glyph if you feel it performs better with your playstyle however i prefer the rupture and shadowdance glyphs, just my personal preference

[Synexlol]

Just for the general hell of it, I feel like trying Subtlety for the first time. However, I've got a couple of questions before I go and respec. Any help or advice would be appreciated

: How viable for PvE? How are the dps numbers on boss fights?
- It's very viable in PvE. You might pull maybe 1k less DPS, but the extra utility and burst is what sells it for me (Valkyrs and LK fight in general comes to mind).
: main CP generator? How about for PvP?
- Your main CP generator is Backstab, but you must also Hemo every 24 seconds to keep it's DoT up. Ambush is used also when you Vanish/ShD.
: What are the rotations and priorities?
-Premed>Garrote>Hemo>Rupture>Backstab to 5>Recup>Pool energy then ShD>Double Ambush>SnD>Ambush>Premed>Evisc>Double Ambush>Evisc>Continue with Backstab as main Combo Builder and keep Hemo dot up (24s).
: should I give up Combat's AoE, or Mut's fun fun playstyle?
- Sub is a lot funner than Mutilate. The choice between Combat and Sub might depend on fights to be honest.

If anybody could toss me a few build and glyph ideas too that'd be great. A standard PvE/Raid build would work, as I generally don't spec for PvP; I just use my normal talents and switch to my Resil set.

- http://wowtal.com/#k=33QcD3M.a8t.rogue.RN12IV

Sigh "Too Short".

[amduscia]

u might want to rupture as your first finisher once u start the fight so u can roll it with the 10% buff from MoS.

[Aestos]

HaT will also keep cp's rolling in, right? I just found that Encrypted Text has a few articles on this, but the link to their build didn't work because wowhead's page reset everything.

Garrote to start (or when using shadowdance), keep up Rupture, SnD, Recup, then Eviscerate if those other buffs/bleeds are still up. Does that look right? Also, i forgot where to toss Hemo in.



---------- Post added 2010-11-27 at 05:12 AM ----------

Oh, and I'm still not sure which spec I want to ditch to give this a shot. I'm not sure if Sub dps will warrant getting rid of assassination, or if I'd rather give up combat (and probably make myself useless on all but single target fights).

With Recup going and energy pooling I can SD Ambush 3 times and Garrotte once... that's with all glyphs that make your abilities tick longer. Also make sure you throw in a ehmo every 60 seconds or so for the bleed dmg buff to Garrotte/Rupture try it, though I'll admit I may or may not go back to combat to lvl for survivability. Sub is excellent, but definately not for a new rogue

---------- Post added 2010-11-27 at 02:06 PM ----------

on a side note, I really don't feel mutilate is very fun, I have a Muti spec for 1 reason, combat is broken. I used to think my combat rotation was simple, then I tried Muti.

[David Otunga]

http://wowtal.com/#k=YR1g1lP4.a8t.rogue.ReaG8y

Here's something that I came up with. I took Cheat Death for a few reasons, among them being that it could possibly save my ass in a raid, thus a brez can be used for somebody else. It's why I only put 2/3 into the improved ambush; but if needed I can throw 1 rank back out of Cheat Death. Later on, the extra points in Assassination could help keeping extra cp's up, ergo easier to keep up Recup/SnD, or extra Evis.

Just let me know if anything in that build looks completely un-viable; obviously it's tougher to check dps results out now that they've changed the dummies.

[Deleted]

IMO i would put all 3 points in to imp ambush because ambush is one of your most used abillities and no points into initiative because you will have more then enough CP's. Also elusiveness is very usefull also. I would take the points from ruthlessness and put them in quickening or puncturing wound (but i havent played the beta so i dont know how crit is looking on the new high end gear)

just my 2 cents

[Valerius]

With Sub do you want a faster or slower OH weapon?

[Deleted]

Combopoint builder: Backstab
Things of importance to your rotation.
Keep recupterate up (energy regen)
Keep SnD up (white attacks and poisons)
Keep rupture up (this you do by using 5 combo point eviscerates, it refreshes the rupture)
Don't use combo point builders when you have 4 combo point builders, let HAT give you the 5th one (unless you're energycapping).

[Djolisimo]

Puncturing Wounds is a must, Ruthlessness is not worth it, don't know the state of Hit rating right now
but if it is nearly useful as before -> Precision 2 points, optional talents - Nightstalker, Elusiveness, Inititative,
Cheat Death, worst talent ever - Enveloping Shadows, also would skip Waylay if it doesn't work on bosses,
which I believe it doesn't.

[amduscia]

Puncturing Wounds is a must, Ruthlessness is not worth it, don't know the state of Hit rating right now
but if it is nearly useful as before -> Precision 2 points, optional talents - Nightstalker, Elusiveness, Inititative,
Cheat Death, worst talent ever - Enveloping Shadows, also would skip Waylay if it doesn't work on bosses,
which I believe it doesn't.

nightstalker = pvp
initiative = crap
elusiveness is a must, more vanishes mean more find weakness uptime and enveloping shadows is very good, u can cause mimiron aoe dmg to miss you if u combo with feint, its situational but it really helps, i can speculate its usefulness in cata raid.

[Deleted]

I perfer Cheat death over Enveloping shadows - but thats really just personal preference