Not so easy?

[Tholl]

It amuses me to no end that people believe one or two bosses make an entire expansion and two years worth of content.

QFT

If you had a GF that had a sweet rack and the rest of her looked shovel beaten, would you still call her hot?

2-3 fights does not a expansion dificulty setting make.

Wrath (or 97% of it) was pretty damn easy and mostly just a time sink.

[Heilige]

Considering most people haven't cleared the content, it's not a time sink for them all.
Challenging Fights @ level:
Algalon
Yogg+0
Firefighter
HM General
Heroic Anub

Challenging Fights pre/early ICC buff:
Heroic LDW
Heroic PP
Heroic Sindragosa

Still Unkillable to 99% players:
Heroic LK with 30% buff.

9 Fights that weren't faceroll, check your 2-3 mark.

[Resies]

QFT

If you had a GF that had a sweet rack and the rest of her looked shovel beaten, would you still call her hot?

2-3 fights does not a expansion dificulty setting make.

Wrath (or 97% of it) was pretty damn easy and mostly just a time sink.

Sorry I forgot a person can be compared to a video game.

IF you haven't done H25LK then you have no right to call the game easy.
It's like one mario game I played (name escapes me) that was ridiculously easy until the end fight. But I didn't call it easy, because I couldn't beat it at the time. People try to justify their badness by saying the game is easy and not worth their time.

[Azerox]

Sounds like another, check me have knowledge about things i never seen topic.

[Deleted]

I am one of the people who never killed LK25hc, only done 11/12 ICC 25hc.
Still I think WotLK was too easy.
Just allowing all bosses to have a heroic mode isn't bringing anything new.
Little bit of tactic change but in the end it's still the same boss you defeat.
I think blizzard is just making it's easy for themselves by making heroic versions of bosses.
Give at least 1 boss thats hard on normal

So what has not being 100% to do with being hard?
turn off 30% nerf and you will die a horribly fast death in the first wing, I promise.

Its like people say "boa see math aint hard. I can do 2+2 and shit. 59323.34 * 3939.99 isnt hard AT ALL if you use the calculator. seriously blizzard should make like F7*B9 that would be hard maaan

And then if blizz does that they say "whoa too hard man! give us a hex calculator duude"


People bullshit around and the pile is mile high. not like illidan was "hard" after the nerfs just like Sunwell was easy then. but hey those raids were harder BECAUSE!

(because being the actual argument)

---------- Post added 2010-12-02 at 07:02 PM ----------

QFT

If you had a GF that had a sweet rack and the rest of her looked shovel beaten, would you still call her hot?

2-3 fights does not a expansion dificulty setting make.

Wrath (or 97% of it) was pretty damn easy and mostly just a time sink.

as roughly 99% of wow players are stupid... udluar in ulduar gear (hardmodes given) wasnt all that easy. and yet I still see people failing on haigan and malygos. naxx bosses that need movement yes?

not 50% of the game is meant to be hard, not even 25% are meant to be hard. and as long as people run around doing the easy mode of the hardmode -> over gearing it or leaving the 30% buff on, those people should shut their japers

[rastur]

I think the big issue is for the 'casual*' players. Of course what constitutes 'casual' is different so for the case of this discussion I will describe me. I play with a group of friends and family, we are lucky if we get 5 people on, so we will _never_ raid. Sure Ive done some PUG stuff once the raid content is outdated. But mostly 5 mans.

At the end of Vanilla, there were still a ton of challenges. I dont want to think of the number of trys it took for me to do Onyx attunement quest with BRD runs. Or the nightmare of some of those pulls in Stratheholme.

in BC heroics were truly heroic, right up until the end. They were always a challenge.

In wrath the heroics were a joke over a year ago, they were never really 'heroic'.

In fact to combat this, Ive encourage my small group to all re-roll and redo all the dungeons starting from the beginning. There is actually more content I havent seen in 1-60, than there will be in 80-85. Plus we wont be at 85 in 6 months and wondering 'what now'

So I think for folks like me and my guild, that was where the big letdown on Wrath was. There was no place for the super-casual player to have fun, except for the month or two right after each expansion when there was a new dungeon or so to explore.

-r

* We only play organized 1 night a week, maybe 1-3 hours and often people cant show. I know some people consider 'mandatory raiding 3 nights a week for 3 hours a night' casual. That to me is a part time job ;-)

[Myrrar]

The whole point of HMs was to make the non-casuals and casuals happy at the same time. They wanted casuals to be able to see all the content and lore unlike TBC. Great idea. They wanted hard cores to be able to have something a bit more, introducing HMs. Great idea.

They heard the casuals complaining they can't do HMs(Ulduar/25OS+3 when it was hard/ToGC) and added in % buff to ICC. Then, they still wanted to make Hard cores happy by keeping certain bosses still hard for the hardcores completely overtuning some and turning ICC into the shitfest it is today. They tuned ICC HMs for middle ground guilds pretty much destroying it from both ends of the skill spectrum. Now you have baddies that think they are BA and a bunch of pissy elites.

To make LK feel more epic they tuned it terribly. There is a reason no one killed it before the 10% buff until after they got to clear ICC enough times to have full BiS gear. Sorry, Mu'ru pre-nurf wasn't fun. Dying on C'thun pre-nurf wasn't fun. Neither was the RNG mess LK is at 0%.

I think most people who did them at the correct progression/gear point, Firefighter and Yogg+0 25 felt a lot more epic than LKHM did.

In the end, I think anyone who started in Wrath wont really understand what the game was like pre-wrath. it's not that the bosses aren't hard enough or a lot of the bull people like to complain about. It was the balance that made everyone happy. The people I knew who only did heroics and Kara and loved the game as much as I did.

[Heilige]

Sorry, Mu'ru pre-nurf wasn't fun. Dying on C'thun pre-nurf wasn't fun

How can you put these in the same sentence? C'thun wasn't nerfed, he was FIXED... He was impossible to kill in his original form - took blizz watching and hotfixing the encounter as it went to FIX it, not nerf it.

Wiping on M'uru wasn't fun, no... wiping is never fun. But after 500+ Wipes the weak he went live, the feeling of killing him pre-Conc Aura nerf was absolutely epic. Especially after I broke 2 keyboards while slamming my fists on the desk after sub 5% wipes.

[glowpipe]

How i see it. Is like this.

Ppl say that wotlk was easier since more and more ppl got epic gear easier. But you still had those who got the best gear ingame and did the hardest bosses.

See it as a car manufacturer. First they made this top model car which only a few could afford After a while they made a cheap family car. Who everyone could get. The car itself wasnt all that but it was made by the car manufacturer called "epic" Still they had their crappy allround epic car and you had the uber expensive Epic gti twin turbo limited edition with gold keys and 2 red light sockets

[shadowkras]

The feeling of wotlk being easy is because we outgeared content pretty fast. New raids are designed so the first half is done with gear from previous content, and last boss is done with gear from this same raid (that means, no heroic LK in full 277). People farmed heroics for 3-4 days before they even walked into the new raid once it came out, so they were already geared for that content with little to no effort.
Otherwise, i think wrath was great.

Pugs were killing Marrowgar the day ICC came out - that just ain't right for the final raid of an expansion.

What raid, in wow history, had a first boss so impossible that nobody killed him on first day?
Anub rekhan was a joke even on first naxx, it was an execution fight, not numbers.
Flame lev was a joke, beasts of northrend was just a gear check on tanks so they dont try tanking in naxx gear, and retard check on dps to not stand on fire.

Even on regular, the first week the plague wing came out, not many guilds had downed fester and rotface on first day, people needed time to learn the fight, they needed to watch tankspot videos and come back on next day, they needed to get their shit together. And many less guilds had downed putricide on first WEEK.


Anyway, hardmodes are there for a reason, stop comparing regular bosses to "hardcore raiding", it wasnt meant to.
ICC heroic modes were out for good 2 months before the buff started kicking in for good, why you guys didnt do 11/12 without the buff, before complaining wrath was to easy. I even did you the favor to exclude LK, as the fight was designed with the buff in mind.

Anyone remember that VHX addon? The one that put 3d images into the game world? Remember what happened to it? Now try doing heroic icc without dbm or any boss addons yelling when you have to run away.
Dont get me wrong, i love dbm to learn new fights, just watching the timers for the first time you do it helps you learning 80% of the fight, the rest is just seeing how much damage each ability does. But DBM does hold the hands for a LOT of people that play this game, including half of the posters in this topic.

[Razaac]

to be honest stuff got easy in ICC, was a simple matter of waiting for the buff to heals, dps, and stam to rise. ulduar was tough because you HAD to outgear it. yogg zero is the most cleverly hard raid design I've ever experienced imo.