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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Napkin math was done a few posts ago, MG is worth quite a bit of mp5, assuming you are actually using your clearcasting procs (which there is no reason not to...). As per your previous post, haste is still the best throughput stat, regardless of HoT breakpoints.
    Prior to 4.0.6, I dropped all points out of MG to take more points in constant throughput talents. ie: Genesis and Blessing of the Grove. Granted, that was when you could still get OoC procs outside of talenting MG. At this point, I've kept at least 1 talent point in MG while still spreading the other to a guaranteed throughput increase. A 2% guaranteed increase to periodic healing over a marginal extra chance to proc for the last point in MG is the trade-off that I usually go with.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-14 at 05:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    If you have no mana probs, reforge out of spi to other stats, but I'd leave the rest as is unless your close to the next haste cap.
    hehe I wish we never had mana problems :P

  2. #422
    I wish they would just let ooc procs be consumed by instant casts. While trying to make use of the proc I often find myself healing people that don't really need it, that's another consideration that hasn't been spoken of. Even if it is free, could your time have been better spent prehotting someone rather than sending out overheals. You might say you could always send it at the tanks, but my raid has 2 pallies, typically baconed to the tanks and healing the raid, overhealing the tank.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by bavarcarus View Post
    I wish they would just let ooc procs be consumed by instant casts. While trying to make use of the proc I often find myself healing people that don't really need it, that's another consideration that hasn't been spoken of. Even if it is free, could your time have been better spent prehotting someone rather than sending out overheals. You might say you could always send it at the tanks, but my raid has 2 pallies, typically baconed to the tanks and healing the raid, overhealing the tank.
    Well, I ended up looking at the amount of healing I was getting out of Regrowth and Healing Touch, the only spells I was using to consume OoC procs. And frankly, even with full 2/2 MG specced, the healing out was minimal. I figured if its situational and RNG based, why not go for guaranteed throughput talent points that are always there. Sure, I use RG/HT less, but I think the extra increase to periodic healing over entire boss fights will make up for it.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by bavarcarus View Post
    I wish they would just let ooc procs be consumed by instant casts. While trying to make use of the proc I often find myself healing people that don't really need it, that's another consideration that hasn't been spoken of. Even if it is free, could your time have been better spent prehotting someone rather than sending out overheals. You might say you could always send it at the tanks, but my raid has 2 pallies, typically baconed to the tanks and healing the raid, overhealing the tank.
    Agreed. Free cast of wild growth? I'd love that so much, instead of spamming regrowth on the one guy at 90%.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by stevos View Post
    A very unhelpful post.

    I tend to heal the person that needs healing, not the one that has a hot on them. Healing isn't about output, its about keeping people alive.

    On a 10man raid, i would say you would be gaining from mastery maybe 8 heals out of 10 (complete guess, based on wildgrowth/rejuv coverage) on 25man this figure drops off a lot, since you have absolutely no control over where your wildgrowth lands. Pretty much every 25man guild runs with group based healing assignments and if i only get 1 wildgrowth on my group, i would either need to cast rejuv and then nourish on someone (why bother when you can allow rejuv to do the work most of the time) or heal with no mastery boost. Going for rejuv+nourish on someone takes 2xGCD whilst you can use a HT or Regrowth for better results.

    The main healing situations you have

    (A) tank is taking next to no dmg - fresh LB with LB and focus on rejuv on raid. Ok could use nourish but probably mainly overheal
    (B) tank is taking a pounding - HT on tank, nourish isn't powerful enough
    (C) raid taking pounding (AoE style dmg) rejuv people and move on, let rejuv handle pain. Anyone in serious problems regrowth (heals more than nourish, so if person is in trouble you ofc choose the fastest biggest heal you can)/HT
    (D) only a couple of raiders taking dmg - rejuv if enough, or top off with HT if they are in serious problems.

    The issue for 25man raids, i can't really see a time i would want to use nourish. Pretty sure i will dump natures bounty, but need to experiement a bit more first.

    For 10man where you have mastery kicking in a lot more I can see it being more useful.

    Also check your WoL reports and see what your nourish heals on average, you might be surprised.
    I wouldnt drop 3/3 NB.

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0hrhZZrczIbcMuouo

    I was always specced into 3/3 NB before the patch except that I dropped 2/3 furor and specced into 2/3 genesis which overall is working out alot better especially considering the changes to WG. Also consider take into consideration for living seed which is based of Nour/HT/SM/Reg crit. Reg is used primarily on OoC and as an emergency heal (very good emergency heal for tank). With the ToL (which I am so upset that the duration was reduced), getting a raid back up on OoC procs with instant Reg (at no mana cost + crits) is very good.

    Now with all the raid damage (25 man) especially on HMs, I am not finding (even b4 the patch) nourish being used as part of my spell selection. 6k-8k heals (not specced into ET and Nat) plus the 2.47 sec cast (15.66% haste + 5% haste buff) is just not viable way to get a raid back up. Rej+WG+3lb stack on tank (OoC) appears to be more effective.

  6. #426
    why doesn't nourish consume omen of clarity proc?

  7. #427
    because it's mana cost is negligible and would be a waste of an Omen proc

  8. #428
    but it's still cost mana and is a spell-cast.

  9. #429
    blizz did you a favor by not having it consume OoC. would you rather a 1500 mana spell consume it, or would you rather plow through your nourish cast so that you can cast a free HT afterward when you want?

  10. #430
    i want spells and abilities to do what it says.

  11. #431
    then you can petition blizzard to either fix the tooltip or to nerf us for the sake of your OCD.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by daydayhyphy View Post
    i want spells and abilities to do what it says.
    I doubt anyone agrees with you, I dont want to waste 3000 more mana for no reason.

    and seeing as you get the mana back and more during the cast... I don't understand why you would want it to proc OoC

    I wish they would just let ooc procs be consumed by instant casts
    This would throw the balance of other specs as well unless they did a mastery thing like they did with distanglement or what ever it is called

  13. #433
    It is consumed by Swiftmend still. So it's not unheard of for it to work on instant casts. I wish they'd change it from Swiftmend to Wild Growth...

  14. #434
    I do agree they need to fix the tooltip becasue right now its a bit confusing.

    1) it doesn't consume on nourish (its great it doesn't but will confuse newer players)
    2) it does consume on swiftmend (annoying as hell but atleast tell us that its meant to and not a bug)

    But all in all a small tweak that would be nice but about it.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-15 at 12:42 PM ----------

    I wonder realistically how many progression resto druids only have Efflorence because they don't want to give up on a signature ability rather than the actual healing it provides, which is to be frank is naff and very situational, especially when combined with the fact you have to use up your switmend to keep it up and its a 3multi-point talent.

    I still have it but keep toying with dropping it.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by stevos View Post
    I do agree they need to fix the tooltip becasue right now its a bit confusing.

    1) it doesn't consume on nourish (its great it doesn't but will confuse newer players)
    2) it does consume on swiftmend (annoying as hell but atleast tell us that its meant to and not a bug)

    But all in all a small tweak that would be nice but about it.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-15 at 12:42 PM ----------

    I wonder realistically how many progression resto druids only have Efflorence because they don't want to give up on a signature ability rather than the actual healing it provides, which is to be frank is naff and very situational, especially when combined with the fact you have to use up your switmend to keep it up and its a 3multi-point talent.

    I still have it but keep toying with dropping it.
    its worth 7-8 % of my healing done, more according to tree calcs. i'd say its worth it

  16. #436
    Does around 4% of my EH, so i guess its ok. I just wonder if the 3 points could be better spent else where, in Genesis for example.

  17. #437
    your still gonna need 31 in resto so if you drop in euflor your gonna need somewhere else in resto tree so you cant get genesis unless your sitting on 34 points in the tree

  18. #438
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    In 25s efflor on 90% of the fights make up an average of 7-8% healing. So druids aren't taking it just because it's a signature spell. Besides the fact, that goes against everything a progression player would do. You choose talents based off what will give you the most throughput/regen, nothing else.

  19. #439
    Most fights are very good for efflorescence, we actually stack more than we don't.
    Magmaw, melee and ranged both make piles.
    Maloriak, red vial.
    Atramedes, pretty much all of ground phase.
    Chimaeron, feud.
    Nef, mostly the same as Magmaw.
    Halfus, depends on your comp, really, but it can be useful.
    V/T, phase 2 or melee in phase 1
    Cho'gall, same as Magmaw
    Al'akir, phase 2

    So, given this, there are only three fights where efflorescence isn't really that useful. You can still find a place on ODS, such as using it when people stack up for the arcane power buff, and there's really no reason not to have people stack for AoE heals on Council (though my guild never does). Even for Conclave, it'll totally depend on what you're actually healing, efflorescence can become very useful for healing through the blizzard, for example.

    Honestly, I wouldn't want to go to raids without it, fights like Chimaeron almost depend on trees having efflorescence.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  20. #440
    Its useful but you have to consider how much it heals per tick before thinking its essential.

    I can only comment on 25man healing but mine is averaging around 500 per tick and it ticks fairly slowly. Compare that to a 120k health raider and things don't look so interesting. Its handy for sure but say on Feud its going to heal each raider for maybe 1.5k over the duration, hardly enough to keep them up when they are probably taking maybe 100k worth of dmg (at a guess). Ok it is healing all 25 people for that, which is nice on the throughput, but again i come back to raw amount healed per raider of around 1% of their health.

    There is also the annoyance of it being linked to swiftmend, and tendency of you having to overheal someone slightly to get the puddle in the right place. Would be far better if the 2 were seperate spells like the priest and shaman versions.

    If it acted as a HoT from a mastery perspective it would be amazing but as far as i know it doesn't.

    I wouldn't give it up, just because I like having a new Cata spell but doubt it would hit my raids success chances if i didnt' spec it.
    Last edited by stevos; 2011-02-15 at 04:44 PM.

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