Heal or Archangel? (dungeons/heroics)

[Jiraiyah]

I'll re-evaluate again once my guild has enough 85's to raid, but for dungeons/heroics, which are you guys using?

I thought the 5% change would kill Archangel but having tried it out on a run or two, I was surprised how well it was working. I'm just having a hard time figuring out which is more efficient.

[Oneirophobia]

I'm not sure what you're asking.
Archangel for healing? Retoring mana? Shadow's Archangel?

What is it more (or not as) efficient than?

[Jiraiyah]

I think it's pretty clear what I'm asking, but just in case, I'll clarify. For disc priests primarily doing dungeons/heroics, are you using archangel-based spec or sticking to heal as your filler? Archangel does not restore nearly enough mana to be used for that purpose. Shadow priests don't typically use Heal.

[Deleted]

I guess he's referring to current (as Elitistjerks states) "viable" discipline spec :
- One spec without Archangel and Evangelism, using Heal to reduce Weakened Soul debuff to put more bubbles on tank and some melees, also reducing Penance's cooldown with Smite.
- Another spec with Archangel and Evangelism, using Smite as filler, Archangel to get healing-boost, and also reducing Penance's cooldown by smiting.

--

For my part I'm using the spec with Heal, and I'm alright with it in heroics so far, bubble on tank/melee, Heal on tank x2, Penance and Greater heal if he takes too much damage, it's alright for now.

[roflwaffle]

I think it's pretty clear what I'm asking, but just in case, I'll clarify. For disc priests primarily doing dungeons/heroics, are you using archangel-based spec or sticking to heal as your filler? Archangel does not restore nearly enough mana to be used for that purpose. Shadow priests don't typically use Heal.

theres a duel ability in archangel that procs off of mind flay i belive

[Jiraiyah]

No, there is, but my point was that it's clear by the title (the Archangel vs. Heal thing) and first post that I'm referring to healing :P

[maustekakut]

FYI it was not "pretty clear what you were asking",
The holy wings give what? 5% mana and +9% healing and 30 CD There should be no question on where to use it! Either pop it every CD or dont! Somewhat other usefullness would to be save the CD til you know there is shortly a big damage inc.

[Jiraiyah]

I guess he's referring to current (as Elitistjerks states) "viable" discipline spec :
- One spec without Archangel and Evangelism, using Heal to reduce Weakened Soul debuff to put more bubbles on tank and some melees, also reducing Penance's cooldown with Smite.
- Another spec with Archangel and Evangelism, using Smite as filler, Archangel to get healing-boost, and also reducing Penance's cooldown by smiting.

--

For my part I'm using the spec with Heal, and I'm alright with it in heroics so far, bubble on tank/melee, Heal on tank x2, Penance and Greater heal if he takes too much damage, it's alright for now.

Exactly that, thank you.

Anyway, I've found both to be fairly viable but it's hard to get a feel on it. I don't know why but I didn't even think of elitistjerks. Last I saw, they weren't updated for 85, but that was a few weeks ago. I think I'll get the best answers I'm looking for there.

---------- Post added 2010-12-10 at 05:46 AM ----------

FYI it was not "pretty clear what you were asking",
The holy wings give what? 5% mana and +9% healing and 30 CD There should be no question on where to use it! Either pop it every CD or dont! Somewhat other usefullness would to be save the CD til you know there is shortly a big damage inc.

Seriously... The title is "Heal or Archangel" and the post asks, do you go with Heal or Archangel as filler. It could not possibly be more simple a question.... Smite/Archangel for disc priests is used in place of Heal for a filler spell, if you're specced for it. So some people go one way, others go the other way. If the question doesn't make sense to you, then you're likely not someone who's had to make that choice, so it doesn't really apply to you anyway.

Though, I do appreciate your attempt to help :P

[anathama]

I believe he meant to say healing with "atonement" not archangel.

[Jiraiyah]

No. I meant to say archangel, I wasn't expecting to have to write out all 3 necessary talents... If the question applies to you, you know what I'm talking about.

[Deleted]

I have specced atonement and running normal dungeons now as i level up and on almost every mobfight i throw a shield on tank and melee, then i keep them up by smiting. However i dont have any idea if this works in heroics.

[Shuet]

I believe he meant to say healing with "atonement" not archangel.

No, he's referring to different specs not different healing spells.

[Acidz]

Yesterday I changed from atonement to a heal spec and i find i have much less mana issues with the latter. So definately heal for me.

[Orapronobis]

Yesterday I changed from atonement to a heal spec and i find i have much less mana issues with the latter. So definately heal for me.

This has pretty much been my experienced. Now it could be because everyone in the group is better geared and getting used to the new instances, but even if that's the case, when it came down to it I just wasn't smiting enough to find the spec useful.

In my opinion, while Archangel is fun, it's just lacking too much control and difficult enough to maintain that it won't be a super viable spec until you've got the content you're running on a normally wipe free farm status.

[harky]

It's kind of shocking to me that people are surprised that Atonement sucks with how much information there was about how poor Atonement was before Cata launch. Using Smite instead of Heal reduces your reliability and overall output as a healer. Once you're heroic geared Atonement is worthwhile in normals and perhaps once you're full T11 geared it will be acceptable in Heroics, but if you're doing relevant content to your character and using Atonement you're the reason people don't like pugs.

[Jiraiyah]

It's kind of shocking to me that people are surprised that Atonement sucks with how much information there was about how poor Atonement was before Cata launch. Using Smite instead of Heal reduces your reliability and overall output as a healer. Once you're heroic geared Atonement is worthwhile in normals and perhaps once you're full T11 geared it will be acceptable in Heroics, but if you're doing relevant content to your character and using Atonement you're the reason people don't like pugs.

I'm not surprised atonement sucks. I was surprised, the one or two times I used it, how it didn't suck as much as I thought it would. I specced out of it as soon as it went to 5% max but respecced back for questing to 85. I ran a couple dungeons with it and wasn't drastically running out of mana as fast as I thought I would and due to faster cast time, was able to keep up with groups during lesser damaging encounters, as long as I didn't cast it unless someone was already down a little bit. The +healing aspect when you pop archangel was pretty welcome once the shit hit the fan as well. The mana return wasn't particularly overwhelming, though. It's hard to judge because of how different pug groups can be, but I didn't really notice much difference between using that and using my Heal spec. Of course, I may have just had decent groups the two times I tried it.

[Quill42]

Heal or Archangel??

Both.

Smite/atonement is great filler, but it doesn't mean you can take heal off your toolbar. If someone NEEDS to be healed, heal them. If you're using smite at the appropriate time and heal at the appropriate time, there shouldn't be any complaints about its reliability. That should go without saying, but judging from the comments above, I guess not

[Acidz]

The point is not about reliability but about the fact that using heal in a heal spec as a filler provides better longetivity (and throughput) than smite / atonement as a filler.

[Anathaema]

keep it simple

[PlatedPriest]

you can get the job done with either(depending on how your spec) it is 100% FLAVOR and that is all. stop trying to knock either or.