Ret got Nerfed?

[zcks]

I think those of you that think Retribution may be a bit underpowered are using the wrong priority.
Inquisition>Exorcism>HoW>TV>CS>Judgement>HW is the new priority (i might be a bit off)
but you want to prioritize holy damage while keeping holy wrath up.
30k exorcism crits are yummy.

For those of you like Tobley who have not read the math on EJ, the top ret players have already calculated that Inquisition is only of real use during the last 20% of a boss fight or when your using hammer of wrath spam during avenging wrath.

This is because the rest of the time you can never predict when you are going to get an art of war proc & without them consistently your better of using Templar's verdict.

This is yet another thing to show how badly the spec was designed this expansion as all the high end players have said.

Not only do all of the procs & many of the CD's clash or negate each other but we have 2 abilities (Inquisition & Zealotry) which do not even increase our dps except under gimmick conditions. Combine this with the fact the whole spec it completely reliant on RNG that we cannot control & you start to see that skill plays little if any factor in the specs potential.

[Deleted]

Naposim1337 said : i have to dispell, interrupt, heal and DPS - too many roles for one class..

wait. what ? HoJ on a 1 minute cd and Rebuke while a 1.5 sec GCD is ongoing..

good luck with watching for a cast while your not pressing any of the other 14 buttons you got ready, AND having a proc.

[belfpala]

good luck with watching for a cast while your not pressing any of the other 14 buttons you got ready, AND having a proc.

Rebuke is off the GCD, like any useful Interrupt.

---------- Post added 2010-12-12 at 11:28 AM ----------

For those of you like Tobley who have not read the math on EJ, the top ret players have already calculated that Inquisition is only of real use during the last 20% of a boss fight or when your using hammer of wrath spam during avenging wrath.

This is because the rest of the time you can never predict when you are going to get an art of war proc & without them consistently your better of using Templar's verdict.

I've done a lot of testing on training dummies, and I can say with confidence it's always better to keep Inquisition up if you know you'll get enough ToT.

However, I've been running quite a few heroics and what I've seen so far suggests the ToT isn't there.

[Ryme]

Right now I'm getting very frustrated to losing a shit ton of itemisation points to Mastery. Plate gear is littered with this stat and it's becoming a real struggle to avoid it.

Hopefully Blizz will notice this and do something about it, but I don't imagine that being done until 4.1

That being said, single target sustained dps is generally fine. I'm usually #1 in my lfd runs at around 10-12k dps.

---------- Post added 2010-12-12 at 12:47 PM ----------

Also, at this level of haste our ramp up time is simply an archaic relic that needs to go. Having to spend sometimes near 20 seconds to get going (if rng is in a bad way) is unacceptable.

[gildra]

doing random dungeons with random people makes me feel good as that is the only moment I top damage, but if I dare doing guild run dungeons I'm better of turning of damage meters as all my guildies bypass my damage.

[nwo]

I remember that when 4.03 came out my dps went down about 30-50% in comparison to 4.01

Used to be around 10k in 4.01 and after 4.03 it was only about 7k.

Granted, these numbers are at level 80 but exorcism proc should not be our highest damage ability. We should not have to rely on RNG in order to be able to put up good dps.

[belfpala]

Granted, these numbers are at level 80 but exorcism proc should not be our highest damage ability. We should not have to rely on RNG in order to be able to put up good dps.

I have no problem with Exo being the highest damage ability, but I agree that it's too RNG dependent. Same with HoL. My DPS varies enormously based on my luck, especially in fights with limited ToT where I'd love to line up procs with my wings and inquisition but it doesn't always happen.

[Taisen]

Ret is no longer faceroll easy and is the lowest dps class right now

You're wrong about it being the lowest dps class, it's not. I did the new 25man Vault/Tol Barad thing and i was keeping up top 5 throughout the fight at 13-14k dps average.

---------- Post added 2010-12-12 at 09:22 PM ----------

I remember that when 4.03 came out my dps went down about 30-50% in comparison to 4.01

Used to be around 10k in 4.01 and after 4.03 it was only about 7k.

Granted, these numbers are at level 80 but exorcism proc should not be our highest damage ability. We should not have to rely on RNG in order to be able to put up good dps.

That's because they normalized weapon damage in preparation for Catacalysm

[Amarthian]

I don't think us Ret Pallies got Nerfed, but just changed the way we play.

Like at Level 81, you get that one skill (forget the name off the top of my head) that increases your damage 30% for 4 seconds per holy power. That's a nice little buff to use, especially if you're holy power has proc'ed, and you can use it twice in a row as 3 holy power. Just hit that buff, then hit TV, and boom, 19k crit.

We just have to learn a new rotation and add a few new skills into it. Just a learning process.

[belfpala]

I don't think us Ret Pallies got Nerfed, but just changed the way we play.

Like at Level 81, you get that one skill (forget the name off the top of my head) that increases your damage 30% for 4 seconds per holy power. That's a nice little buff to use, especially if you're holy power has proc'ed, and you can use it twice in a row as 3 holy power. Just hit that buff, then hit TV, and boom, 19k crit.

We just have to learn a new rotation and add a few new skills into it. Just a learning process.

Inquisition is the ability you're talking about, and it's only a buff to holy damage. Its usefulness hinges on getting enough Time on Target and luck with Exo procs. If you're not going to get 15-20 seconds uninterrupted on your target, you're better off using the holy power for a TV.

[Peadoughbare]

I couldn't disagree more. Right now at 85 in half of the lvl 85 vendor gear and a few heroic pieces, I am doing more single target damage than almost every class. Rogues can beat me sometimes, but thats about it. Mind you, I am talking about a heroic run of all guild members. On AoE fights, I am much lower, and DKs and boomkins are ridiculous because their AoE doesn't seem to be capped.

Replacing my 284 Glorenzelg with the new Ring of Blood sword was a huge DPS increase. Replacing that RoB sword with a lvl 85 heroic sword was an even bigger upgrade. A quality weapon is critical.

Having a lot of fun atm with Ret.

Replaced Wild Hammer normal with The weapon from Ozruk heroic, safe to say I saw a big difference, on a sidenote I topped on the 10 man Baradin hold boss, 11.5k I think? I also died a few seconds from the end from meteor slash >.>

EDITED--

Also, what really annoys me is when I use Inquisition and NO Art of war procs happen, honestly wasted. TV holy damage please.

[Flaks]

Ret is perfect (and I mean PERFECT) when it comes to PvE. I remember Blues in the beta forums talking about how they wanted other classes to be comparable to ret in terms of DPS, rotation etc.

PvP on the other hand... not so much.

[Deleted]

I just got leveling and normal instances gear here, but my ret pulls of 10k dps on boss fights without any probs, using inquisition + AW + Trinkets etc. just in the right times (maybe it's because i played rogue before so keeping up inquisition is just the same as keeping up slice and dice ^^).
I'm really curious what it will be like when i have heroic raid gear, 20k dps shouldn't be a prob then ^^ I mean 8% Crit now, and 20%+ Crit then MUST make a difference.

I forgot to mention, I'm NOT Hit and Expertise capped right now. I have 3 sockets and my inscription shoulder enchant (from wotlk).
So there is a lot of room for more dmg ^^

Conclusion: We weren't nerfed, we are just different now ^^

[nescáfè]

as all the high end players have said.

So you speak for all the high end players out there? Mhm.... Fail.

[Siron]

Is inquisition rly worth using? I mean, yeah exo damage and HoW damage is nice, but thats all to holy damage, other main damage sources is full 100% pure weapon damage. IMO they should change TV to like 30% holy damage that inq would be usefull

[nwo]

Is inquisition rly worth using? I mean, yeah exo damage and HoW damage is nice, but thats all to holy damage, other main damage sources is full 100% pure weapon damage. IMO they should change TV to like 30% holy damage that inq would be usefull

It's worth using when you have AW up (or when you can use HoW on a boss) and when you're fighting a target for more than 20 seconds. On a side note, don't forget that seal of truth, judgement, and holy wrath (conc is not worth mentioning since it should really never be used). Granted, neither of those abilities do a huge amount of damage, but it adds up on boss fights.

[Soundeffects]

I just got leveling and normal instances gear here, but my ret pulls of 10k dps on boss fights without any probs, using inquisition + AW + Trinkets etc. just in the right times (maybe it's because i played rogue before so keeping up inquisition is just the same as keeping up slice and dice ^^).
I'm really curious what it will be like when i have heroic raid gear, 20k dps shouldn't be a prob then ^^ I mean 8% Crit now, and 20%+ Crit then MUST make a difference.

I forgot to mention, I'm NOT Hit and Expertise capped right now. I have 3 sockets and my inscription shoulder enchant (from wotlk).
So there is a lot of room for more dmg ^^

Conclusion: We weren't nerfed, we are just different now ^^

I don't think we will hit 20% to crit for a lot longer then t11. Crit is still lower then haste so any crit you have will be reforged to either haste, hit, or exp.

[Iamsylar]

I believe ret is fine, and your friend can't figure how to make a good rotation, or when he have to blow off he's CDs.

[Abandon]

I couldn't disagree more. Right now at 85 in half of the lvl 85 vendor gear and a few heroic pieces, I am doing more single target damage than almost every class. Rogues can beat me sometimes, but thats about it. Mind you, I am talking about a heroic run of all guild members. On AoE fights, I am much lower, and DKs and boomkins are ridiculous because their AoE doesn't seem to be capped.

Replacing my 284 Glorenzelg with the new Ring of Blood sword was a huge DPS increase. Replacing that RoB sword with a lvl 85 heroic sword was an even bigger upgrade. A quality weapon is critical.

Having a lot of fun atm with Ret.

It's actually really good to see something like this posted by one of the more respected Retribution Paladins on the forums, I must say.

[Smoff]

Lowest dps? I beg to differ. I'm doing fine.

You really arent, trust me. Compare your RAID dps to any given Hunter, Deathknight, shaman, warlock, mage, (the list goes on until all thats left is a fury warrior) you will be the lowest