Fire Mage - Low DPS

[Prohibition]

So I'm currently spec'd as fire and feel as if my dps is low. While running H Brc today w/ a guildy (DK) during fights he was average 15k dps during boss fights (not just the fire boss w/ debuff) while I could barely break 9k.

iLvl 347
stats w/ molten armor + AI
- 6213 sp
- 22.8% crit
- 16.90% hit
- 5.68% haste
- 11.74 mastery
- goblin

I'm convinced it's not a l2p issue because on training dummies I can hold 10k consistent w/ 18k spikes if I get a lucky break on LB, Pyro, Ignite + combustion proc. I feel that 10k is lean since simcraft is telling me that I can pull 13.7k w/ self buffs.

TL;DR questions
- Is 10k what I should be pulling at ilvl 347
- If it isn't are there things I can tweak to up my base dps?
- Could this be caused by latency? If so what can i do to confirm it? (I usually run at 100ms up to 200ms)

[flinchy]

i can't comment on all of it, but 10k is what i pulled not long after levelling through cata, now at ~330ilvl, most 5man bosses i end up over 12k.

its not latency, as i run 300-400ms.

[W1zarD330]

Can you link your armory? Fire is in a spot right now where your DPS can be really good or just subpar. Make sure you're talented and glyphed correctly. Also have to make sure you don't go oom too soon. Know which spell rotations to cast during which part of the fight. I'm sure you know all of this but just want to throw it out there. An always awesome site, especially for fire mages is elitistjerks.com. http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-...ge_compendium/
"Fire Mages need to react dynamically to the unique needs of each encounter, and even to differing attempts on the same encounter." -ElitistJerks

[Deleted]

so for now fire is not the best choice... you have way to little haste... but you cant go for haste because you will loose crit. try to reforge every bit og mastery into haste/crit its the worst stat for fire. but for now we alle have so bad gear, that fire is maybe the worst magr spec. try frost, i pull up 15k+ in 5man an 12+ in raids.

for more i recomment manaflask...

[Deleted]

so for now fire is not the best choice... you have way to little haste... but you cant go for haste because you will loose crit. try to reforge every bit og mastery into haste/crit its the worst stat for fire. but for now we alle have so bad gear, that fire is maybe the worst magr spec. try frost, i pull up 15k+ in 5man an 12+ in raids.

for more i recomment manaflask...

disregard this comment, it is incorrect.

[Prohibition]

[[us.battle.net/wow/en/character/black-dragonflight/gravitation/simple]]

^link to my armory. I've been read the EJ thread, it's a great post. When I'm casting on the Boss Dummy I start w/ the usual rotation:

0. Mirror Image + Orb
1. LB
2. Scorch
3. Fireball spam (w/ HS on priority)
---- from here I either wait until 30 seconds and combustion or cast it immediately after a HS proc ----
4. Orb when it's up

Combustion with all dots across the board can spike me up to 18k. Sometimes with all dots up I only get up to 12k. After the combustion wears off everything settles down and I drop down to 9.6k to 10k. It's not easy for me to maintain 9.6k to 10k

[GenesisZero]

Might just be bad luck on Crits, A friend of mine is having the same problem.
Haste seems pretty low at the moment but I'm guessing that its reforged to Crit And I'd recommend some more Mastery at your earliest convenience.

On regards to dps it seems fine enough, a lot of your DPS can be fluctuating because of the absents of some debuffs on your target (+8% magic damage for example) and based on some bosses and mobs having there own damage reductions. Plus don't take Simcraft or any type of dps theory at face value, most of the dps these show is if everything was a perfect world where everything happened right. :P

Also Have you been using Frostfire (Glyphed for) or Normal fireball. I've heard some rumors that is competitive with Fireball in certain respects.

[Deleted]

disregard this comment, it is incorrect.

year ofc... just read it your self on manaflasks as i told... haters gona hate

[Skarrd]

I haven't done below 12k on "regular" fights since i broke ilvl 335 as fire. I don't get "that wonderful combustion dot" spread a lot and I still manage 12k easy. A big thing to note is how fast your group kills things, another is target switches or aoe, the last and least important is itemization (assuming you aren't in 14 pieces of spirit gear).

On things like ripsnarl where I'm basically stuck scorching adds the whole time I dip closer to 10k. On faster fights I'll do more like 16-18k, same with aoe fights. Good combustions can actually shoot your dps up -a ton-. I've had combustion do almost 500k damage in one single target fight (two casts).

Are you ending fights on low mana? Scorch:Fireball ratios are important. Are you making optimal use of molten fury with pure fireball spam? Are you using Combustion with procs up and big ignites rolling with a pyro and LB dot? All of these could pull your dps down significantly. Also keep in mind that combustion during time warp will give you more ticks, dots are not what they used to be.

Assuming you're playing correctly, hit is your problem. You're 10.9% over the heroic hit cap. I reforge all my hit to crit since I'm not raiding and I have just over 6% after the reforges (~11% before).

[sicness]

year ofc... just read it your self on manaflasks as i told... haters gona hate

Fire is perfectly fine dps, you just have to know how to play it. It's more about managing your mana than arcane is and knowing when to use FB over scorch and vice versa.

[Prohibition]

Are you ending fights on low mana? Scorch:Fireball ratios are important. Are you making optimal use of molten fury with pure fireball spam? Are you using Combustion with procs up and big ignites rolling with a pyro and LB dot? All of these could pull your dps down significantly. Also keep in mind that combustion during time warp will give you more ticks, dots are not what they used to be.

Assuming you're playing correctly, hit is your problem. You're 10.9% over the heroic hit cap. I reforge all my hit to crit since I'm not raiding and I have just over 6% after the reforges (~11% before).

Thanks everyone for the quick replies.

I usually end bosses w/ around 10% mana or below. I'm rarely scorch spamming cause i'm OOM. I try to hit combustion with a pyro / lb / ignite dot rolling but also because crits are so low these days in 346 gear I try to spend the combustion early if no HS comes through since I want to proc it at least once more during the fight. The 16.90% hit is required since my guild is currently working on progression.

I was curious if you might make any recommendations in regards to technique that might raise my DPS? When you're practicing rotations on the Boss target dummies do you hold a consistent 12k? Also are there any addons that lets me track the value of my dot ticks so I might maximize my combustion tick?

^GenesisZero I'm currently using Fireball over FFB. Most of my numbers are coming from comparing my dps on bosses w/ what my DK friend is pulling.

[Deleted]

Fire is perfectly fine dps, you just have to know how to play it. It's more about managing your mana than arcane is and knowing when to use FB over scorch and vice versa.

i never said fire has a bad dps. i only said that for now and for this itemlvl fire has a bad dps... and as he said he is talking about heroics its an even lower spec bc the mobs die befor ypu can put up all dots

but year why im talking about it... juts go for the theorycraft and if you think "oh damn im so good with fire that guy should play it too" i cant help here

[sicness]

i never said fire has a bad dps. i only said that for now and for this itemlvl fire has a bad dps... and as he said he is talking about heroics its an even lower spec bc the mobs die befor ypu can put up all dots

but year why im talking about it... juts go for the theorycraft and if you think "oh damn im so good with fire that guy should play it too" i cant help here

It's not bad dps though, that's what I said. It's perfectly viable dps for raiding if you know how to play it properly. I raid and do heroic 5 mans as fire except for the occasional boss where I go arcane for encounter reasons. Fire is not going to gimp your raid if you spec it. You won't top meters, but you're not a detriment and your dps is fine.

[Egu]

I don't think any of the mage specs is "low" on dps and need to be buffed.
Its either an L2P or gear issue..

[Prohibition]

i never said fire has a bad dps. i only said that for now and for this itemlvl fire has a bad dps... and as he said he is talking about heroics its an even lower spec bc the mobs die befor ypu can put up all dots

I agree with you that fire is a bit fuq'd because we can't receive the bare minimum stats required to make it effective. After gemming int / crit and reforging everything I could I eeked out 22.8% crit which is a far cry from the 50% that we were running w/ in WOTLK. Based on RNG the pendulum should swing fairly massively between 12k and 15k. I'm more concerned that I should be at 12k and maybe there's something wrong w/ latency or technique that's keeping me from having a consistent baseline of 12k.

[Strikesuit]

5 mans aren't a good place to judge dps. I find that simcraft number to be way off. Maybe if you spam FB, but then you're OOM in 4 minutes.

Edit: I wanted to add that a <vodka> mage, Lupita(?), said he was pulling 14-16 in a 25 man raid and was competitive with everyone but warlocks.

[Dazzert]

I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm pulling 15k+ on most everything fight I've done in ten man.
My stats are self buffed
5840 sp
7.57% haste
17.08% hit
24.09% crit
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n-tor/dazzert/

The only thing I'm seeing, is you shouldn't let Living Bomb drop on a single target fight, try to cast fireballs during trinket procs, spellsteal buffs, ~35 %, and never ever stop casting.

Also look into getting combustionhelper addon, it's great for keeping track of when to use combustion, that might just be causing your discrepancy in dps, combustion can really help or hurt you depending on how you use it.

[Shawaam]

How is your mana? I am currently using mage armor for the extra mana regeneration. It's pretty much a must when any AoE comes into play (or if your crit is low).

[Deleted]

i never said fire has a bad dps. i only said that for now and for this itemlvl fire has a bad dps... and as he said he is talking about heroics its an even lower spec bc the mobs die befor ypu can put up all dots

but year why im talking about it... juts go for the theorycraft and if you think "oh damn im so good with fire that guy should play it too" i cant help here

Don't contradict yourself.... ''Fire isnt bad.. fire is bad.'' What the hell are you on about. For this iLevel Fire is still a very viable spec for fights that matter. I kick 12k easy while utilising FFB glyph. Even on trash my dps seems to go ape %"£* high at points. I'm running around 23%ish crit as far as my fire mage is concerned and I see nothing wrong with the spec at all. You could always try arcane? :P

[Trixzy]

You shouldn't have any trouble doing dps with your current ilvl, I actually topped the WoL for Magmaw10player overall firemages (didn't have WoL up tho) did 20700dps on the boss. (He does have a damagebuff)
Doing about 14-20k on bossfights and on dummy I haven't really tried.
My rotation is usually:
Cast pyroblast before pull for critical mass + pyro/ignite dots
Put up LvB
Ignite up? Use combustion + flame orb and mirror images.
If not spam FB until ignite and then ^
spam FB use hot streak procs refresh LvB and Critical Mass.


http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../trixzy/simple

^my armory.

I'm running with 7428sp 10man buffed, can't remember my crit tho.