Honor Income In Cataclysm

[Ripkit]

So I play horde on Kil'jaeden US. For us, it's, at prime time, about 10 minutes for a random BG queue. Any other time of the day, it ranges from 15-30 minutes. First of all, those queues are absurd, but I'll comment on that later. My real concern is with the amount of honor you get per game. In a losing game, even a random, you get around 25-30 honor. In a winning random, you can expect between 60-85 honor. Now let's do a little math:
Take a 15 minute queue and a 15 minute game. Roughly 30 minutes per BG, optimistically. Let's say we win 50% and lose 50%. That's an average of roughly 46 honor per game.
The entire blue set takes 19,450 honor to get (I believe).
Take 45 divided by 19450, we get about 432 BGs to get the entire blue set. Do a little more--30 minutes times 432 BGs is 216 hours.

You need to do 216 hours of random BGs (optimistically, more likely longer), to get the blue PvP set.

Let's say an average player plays 5 hours a day. That's 43 days of farming, spending 100% of your played time doing random BGs and nothing else.


Anybody seeing the problem here?

My second question is why queues take 30 minutes, when I can hop on Call of Duty on xbox live and get into a match in under 30 seconds? My only thought is that it has to be Factions. If so, why are factions still relevant in BGs, causing the 10-30 minute queues when factions are not of any importance in Arenas?

Any thoughts? Similar problems on other realms? Normally I'd say QQ moar to this type of thing.. But this is a little outrageous.

[Venefico]

Let's say an average player plays 5 hours a day.

Lost you here

Don't make useless posts please.

[Deleted]

My second question is why queues take 30 minutes, when I can hop on Call of Duty on xbox live and get into a match in under 30 seconds? My only thought is that it has to be Factions. If so, why are factions still relevant in BGs, causing the 10-30 minute queues when factions are not of any importance in Arenas?

Because in arena you can face the your own faction in a match, In a BG it is always the opposing faction. Hence heavy horde population realms will have longer queues for Horde shorter for Alliance.

Sucks but it is how it is, rated BG's solve the faction problem I believe.

[turboblake]

I tend to agree with you. On top of all that, I've noticed that I'll be in a queue for over 30 minutes while it says the average wait time is around 9minutes, and I'll have to quit and re-queue. I'm lucky to get into a single battleground every hour right now...

[Sápphh]

Because in arena you can face the your own faction in a match, In a BG it is always the opposing faction. Hence heavy horde population realms will have longer queues for Horde shorter for Alliance.

Realm? You mean region, right? Or continent?

[Dindo]

Get a rated team.

I hear that honor from kills in rated BGs is way higher than non-rated, (rightfully so).
That way, as was said before, you don't have super long queues, you get more honor, AND you can get some conquest points.

[Vandrel]

Get a rated team.

I hear that honor from kills in rated BGs is way higher than non-rated, (rightfully so).
That way, as was said before, you don't have super long queues, you get more honor, AND you can get some conquest points.

Pretty sure theres no honor gain in rated bgs, only conquest points. Just like arenas.

[guardian_titan]

With the new rated battlegrounds and the ability to skirmish in BGs (war games) with members of your own faction, having alliance vs alliance and horde vs horde unrated BGs should actually be possible and would be fair to implement. It could possibly result in lower queue times as well as more randomness in BGs. Rather than knowing it's the opposite faction you're against, it could be either the opposite or your own.

As for how long the honor grind is, I've been suffering through it since BC. I ran AV for 15 hours one day at 70 on my druid to get ONE item. Spent another time on my 70 shaman back in BC farming for WSG marks. Did over 25 games in one day and only won ONE! Theoretically, honor gear and PvE gear should be obtainable with the same amount of effort, but apparently Blizzard favors BGs being more grindy, especially for those that are on the side that always loses.

[Deleted]

I completely agree, this is stupid. For anyone who is farming, then here are some tips:
-Stay in the action - more honorable kills = more honor
-Do Tol Barad - Winning = 120-160 honor Losing = around 70 honor and a daily quest to win for 64 honor
-Make an arena team - Me and my friend suck, and we went 5-0 and get maxed out on conquest. Get maxed on conquest and you can get a pretty good piece of gear every week

I would also advise to have breaks so that you don't get completely bored like me!

But they do need to increase the amount of honor gained in BGs, your right

[Deleted]

Lost you here

if you dont read the whole wall of text you dont need to comment (get me right ok?)
OT: yes i see a verry big problem there.. tbh i think blizz shuld fix this, and i think they will =)

[Ripkit]

I'm capped on conquest points. Rated BGs give the same honorable kills as normal BGs (which may be a bug actually). Also, battlegroups are not combined yet, so I don't know how that's relevant. If they ever plan on actually doing that, that is. =/

Also, rated BG queues are not much faster. And regardless, they don't give the honor bonus that you get from doing randoms, the only honor you get is purely from the kills--and you also have the added hassle of trying to put together a full team of 10-15 people (which is, during 80% of the day, not feasible. The only time it is is around prime time in the evening).

There seems to be NO reasonable option for farming honor as horde currently. And, even if the queues were instant, 25 honor for a loss is still absolutely absurd. And 70-80 for a win is equally meager. Even if I got instant queues and won EVERY game, it would still take roughly 27 wins, or roughly 8.5 hours of straight BG grinding, for 1 piece of gear. for INSTANT queues. Add on the 15-30 minute queues and that number goes up even further. Perhaps 2-3 days of 10 hour+ farming to get 1 piece of gear.

[sebun]

You need to do 216 hours of random BGs (optimistically, more likely longer), to get the blue PvP set.

At least they won't be called welfare gear any more, because you actually need to work on getting them.

[Vandrel]

I'm capped on conquest points. Rated BGs give the same honorable kills as normal BGs (which may be a bug actually). Also, battlegroups are not combined yet, so I don't know how that's relevant. If they ever plan on actually doing that, that is. =/

Also, rated BG queues are not much faster. And regardless, they don't give the honor bonus that you get from doing randoms, the only honor you get is purely from the kills--and you also have the added hassle of trying to put together a full team of 10-15 people (which is, during 80% of the day, not feasible. The only time it is is around prime time in the evening).

There seems to be NO reasonable option for farming honor as horde currently. And, even if the queues were instant, 25 honor for a loss is still absolutely absurd. And 70-80 for a win is equally meager. Even if I got instant queues and won EVERY game, it would still take roughly 27 wins, or roughly 8.5 hours of straight BG grinding, for 1 piece of gear. for INSTANT queues. Add on the 15-30 minute queues and that number goes up even further. Perhaps 2-3 days of 10 hour+ farming to get 1 piece of gear.

Actually, batltegroups are linked for bgs and lfg already.

[Lawlocoptor]

So I play horde on Kil'jaeden US. For us, it's, at prime time, about 10 minutes for a random BG queue. Any other time of the day, it ranges from 15-30 minutes. First of all, those queues are absurd, but I'll comment on that later. My real concern is with the amount of honor you get per game. In a losing game, even a random, you get around 25-30 honor. In a winning random, you can expect between 60-85 honor. Now let's do a little math:
Take a 15 minute queue and a 15 minute game. Roughly 30 minutes per BG, optimistically. Let's say we win 50% and lose 50%. That's an average of roughly 46 honor per game.
The entire blue set takes 19,450 honor to get (I believe).
Take 45 divided by 19450, we get about 432 BGs to get the entire blue set. Do a little more--30 minutes times 432 BGs is 216 hours.

You need to do 216 hours of random BGs (optimistically, more likely longer), to get the blue PvP set.

Let's say an average player plays 5 hours a day. That's 43 days of farming, spending 100% of your played time doing random BGs and nothing else.


Anybody seeing the problem here?

My second question is why queues take 30 minutes, when I can hop on Call of Duty on xbox live and get into a match in under 30 seconds? My only thought is that it has to be Factions. If so, why are factions still relevant in BGs, causing the 10-30 minute queues when factions are not of any importance in Arenas?

Any thoughts? Similar problems on other realms? Normally I'd say QQ moar to this type of thing.. But this is a little outrageous.

Yes, 100% agree with you, the cost of Honor Gear is absolute shit. Even as Alliance with instant-queues getting just one piece of gear is hours of game play. Won matches are few and far between, and they have no way to form groups to get honor fast, unless you want to play with only a group of 5 people, which can rarely determine the outcome of a game, especially in IoC or AV.

You'll probably be able to hit at least 3rd or 4th Prestige in CoD before you get a full set of honor gear in cata. I hate it. And what I hate more is that you can post this kind of hard evidence and numbers on the Blizzard forums, and nobody pays a wink of attention to it, and the people that post something usually just say "No you're wrong, you must be a scrub".

[Ripkit]

At least they won't be called welfare gear any more, because you actually need to work on getting them.

Work? You mean sit in queue leveling archaeology?

[twh]

that's a long queue time.....it's normally between 2-5 mins on The Scryers - Alliance.....so maybe that's a server/population issue?

[qsubt05]

So I play horde on Kil'jaeden US. For us, it's, at prime time, about 10 minutes for a random BG queue. Any other time of the day, it ranges from 15-30 minutes. First of all, those queues are absurd, but I'll comment on that later. My real concern is with the amount of honor you get per game. In a losing game, even a random, you get around 25-30 honor. In a winning random, you can expect between 60-85 honor. Now let's do a little math:
Take a 15 minute queue and a 15 minute game. Roughly 30 minutes per BG, optimistically. Let's say we win 50% and lose 50%. That's an average of roughly 46 honor per game.
The entire blue set takes 19,450 honor to get (I believe).
Take 45 divided by 19450, we get about 432 BGs to get the entire blue set. Do a little more--30 minutes times 432 BGs is 216 hours.

You need to do 216 hours of random BGs (optimistically, more likely longer), to get the blue PvP set.

Let's say an average player plays 5 hours a day. That's 43 days of farming, spending 100% of your played time doing random BGs and nothing else.


Anybody seeing the problem here?

My second question is why queues take 30 minutes, when I can hop on Call of Duty on xbox live and get into a match in under 30 seconds? My only thought is that it has to be Factions. If so, why are factions still relevant in BGs, causing the 10-30 minute queues when factions are not of any importance in Arenas?

Any thoughts? Similar problems on other realms? Normally I'd say QQ moar to this type of thing.. But this is a little outrageous.

so long post about nothing.
I give u solution

a) faction change, if u have 20min BG queue, oppositte faction have instant BG - imho every true PVPer play on "weaker" side
b) dont buy whole blue set for honor, make some craft + use some heroic drops, they are not far from honor pieces, and put some purple armor arena soon too.. why complete blue honor set? buy 3-5 pieces and enjoy game, rest fill other stuff, dont stress so much with "I MUST HAVE WHOLE SET , TO BE SUCCESFULL" , its not true.

[Ripkit]

so long post about nothing.
I give u solution

a) faction change, if u have 20min BG queue, oppositte faction have instant BG - imho every true PVPer play on "weaker" side
b) dont buy whole blue set for honor, make some craft + use some heroic drops, they are not far from honor pieces, and put some purple armor arena soon too.. why complete blue honor set? buy 3-5 pieces and enjoy game, rest fill other stuff, dont stress so much with "I MUST HAVE WHOLE SET , TO BE SUCCESFULL" , its not true.

a) So I should have to faction change because blizzard can't balance queues? That's stupid. I'm not wasting 30 dollars or whatever it is because of bad matchmaking design. And I think I already did a little math showing that, even with instant queues, it still takes 8-10 hours to get a piece.
b) I have the whole blue crafted set, which is 333 ilvl. The blue pvp set is 352 ilvl--that's a massive difference. Any reasonably skilled alliance player at 2k+ will be able to beat my teams on sheer gear alone, assuming equal skill.

[Deleted]

so long post about nothing.
I give u solution

a) faction change, if u have 20min BG queue, oppositte faction have instant BG - imho every true PVPer play on "weaker" side
b) dont buy whole blue set for honor, make some craft + use some heroic drops, they are not far from honor pieces, and put some purple armor arena soon too.. why complete blue honor set? buy 3-5 pieces and enjoy game, rest fill other stuff, dont stress so much with "I MUST HAVE WHOLE SET , TO BE SUCCESFULL" , its not true.

So he should pay £20 for Blizzard's problem? Yes because that makes sense.

[Stanton Biston]

45 days to get to max blue honor pieces seems reasonable to me.

Even 90 days, assuming only playing every other day seems reasonable.