Flametongue Unleash Elements

[PaintOnASign]

Personally, I think it should stick to having a GCD. To be frank, Unleash Flame and Wind seem to be designed for Enhancement, not Elemental. If it was meant for Elemental, then they clearly failed, unless their only intent was adding an extra button to push when you're on the move and your next spell is going to be either FS or LvB. I doubt they'll make UE do more damage, because of its purpose in Enhancement, but giving it the chance of procc Elemental Overload would be interesting. Either way, I still believe its an Enhancement spell, and until otherwise changed or announced, Elemental players aren't going to be happy with it.

[Arinnaya]

It definitely seems that this spell is designed to help out a bit on movement - not only does it do a bit of damage, but once you can stop again you've got a bit of a boost to your LvB to get back into DPSing asap. It's not a dps increase on stationary fights, so don't use it!

[PollyO]

use it only on the move if swg is on gc

[Endus]

I'd be fine with a damage boost to make it more useful in general, but it has its purpose in our rotation already. It's a second "while-moving" spell. One of our biggest complaints before Cata was mobility; we lost a ton of DPS if we had to move. That's what I see Unleash Flame as being intended to mitigate.

[Cragen]

If it was a choice between having unleash elements as it is or change it to be off the GCD then I'll of course choose it being off the GCD.
One thing this would make is that you could macro the different weapon imbues to be able to use the effect in a single GCD.

But what would make more sense from a elemental perspective would just be to either change shamanism to be more inline with what other casters have. Change it from being scalling to LB and LvB and make it a 25% damage modifier to all spells. With tweaking so LB, LvB and fulmination do the same amount of damage they do now, then you'd get a increase significant upgrade in the damage your flame shock and unleashed elements would do.

It would most likely make unleash elements worth using in a single target rotation. It would up the damage your flame shock dot ticks and how hard searing totem hits for(If it works that way) which again would help us when moving.

Another way that only affects unleash elements would be to either change or add a talent for elemental shamans that buff the instant damage portion of unleash flame. A buff to it's scalling would probably work as well.

Since if it was just off the GCD then you would just need to macro it to LvB and Flame Shock and never think about it again.

[Omanley]

You are correct. Thus that's why I think increasing it's initial damage up to Lightning Bolt standards would be a better change

And now imagine that as enhancement with ft/ft. Just like how i said above, if you'd want to increase it's damage, you would have to do it through deep ele talents (unless that is exactly what you meant).

[Lebored]

It would have to have its base damage increased alot to make up for the fact that it can't overload. And taking it off the GCD would just make it macroable. Doesn't matter if YOU wouldn't others would.

Would this really effect Enhance tho? I was under the impression that Lava Lash is physical? Or Does the UE buff still apply? Or are you just talking about the base damage not the fire buff?

Perhaps it could be changed so that it would effect more than just your next fire spell, similar to how Elemental Focus does the next 2 spells. Would have to lower the effect per spell (for an overall boost).

[BadBadBad]

Dont try to act like if this was brought off the GCD, you wouldnt just macro it into LvB. You arent fooling anyone with your talk of having an extra button to push.

Oh shi.... You got me d:

[Darzhar]

Just a heads up:
UE Flametounge increases the dmg of your next firespell by 20%, not 30!

Anyway, i'm against using UE in any non-movement rotation, but i will accept that it's a good opener when you combine it with your FS, so whilst you're running into place use your UE with FS (it works on the dot).
Since i had some discussion with the other elemental shaman in my guild about UE and it's uses i did some testing on the boss training dummy.
These are my results regarding UE:Flametounge.

This first part is about using UE to power up your LvB simply activating it every 15 secs at times when you dont need to reapply FS.

So I wanted to test how Unleash Elements worked on a patchwork fight (stand and nuke) since some people in the guild stated that using UE on cooldown (so it increases the dmg of your LvB and not FS) would be a great dps increase when compared to ignoring it completely.

This test was done using the Flametounge totem (non dmg-dealing one) so dmg dealt by totems wouldent matter and to spare the GCD every minute.
I’m not stating that Unleash Elements is a bad spell, I’m just trying to PROVE that using it in a standstill phase of any fight is a direct dpsloss! However under the following circumstances using UE will be a dps-increase:

a) Your Shock is on cooldown and you’re moving
b) Your shock is off cooldown but theres less than 5/6 seconds till you need
to refresh Flame shock and you’re moving
c) You’re moving, your LvB is off cooldown, your shock is on cooldown and you got enough time left on your flameshock dot for it to last till your LvB hits the boss (once you get to stand still and cast it that is)

When any of the above happens using UE will increase your dps, but when theres no need to move using it will be a dpsloss. Taking the UE numbers from the 5 min test where I used it it hits for around 4.6k and crits for ~8.85k. It does however increase the dmg of your next LvB by 20% taking the avg LvB crit from 20.5k to 21.8k or increasing the avg dmg from LvB by ~1.2k.
Adding these numbers together we get that casting UE deals 5.8k to 10.05k dmg, the average dmg dealt by UW (in 100 casts) will then be:

((5800x(100-crit_%)+10050xCrit_%))/100

At current gearlevels the crit% is ~20%. Insetting that in the above formula means that UE at average will be doing:

((5800x(80)+10050x20))/100=6650

Spending one GCD (1.5 secs) on dealing an average of 6650 dmg when that GDC could have been spend casting a LB is a which hits for an average of 9420ish dmg means that you’ll be doing 9420-6650 = 2770 dmg less every 15 secs. This is an approximate loss of 185 dps. Not to add to the fact that it feels weird to be spending that one gcd every 15 secs to power up your LvB while you still need to make sure that you don’t waste it on your Flame Shock.

I should probably also add that I didn’t use Berserking (troll racial), Bloodlust or Elemental Mastery for these tests. Nor did I pop any pots or use any buff food.

The difference in dps between these two tests is bigger than It should be based on my theory but this difference is most likely due to the fact that I didn’t account for the fact that the LB you could cast instead of that UE can overload (and that the overload then could crit)…

You can see the numbers below

No UE
LB : 53,4% total dmg, 19,4% crit (avg 17441) hit (avg 9454)
LvB: 43 26,3% total dmg 100% crit, avg 20587
FUlmination: 16 9,4% total dmg 68,8% hit 11 (avg 14046) crit 5 31,3% 26919 avg
Flams Shock dot 7,2% total dmg 116 tick 77,6% hit avg 1562 22,4% crit avg 3148
Earth shock: 16 2,3% total dmg 15 hit (avg 4246) 1 crit 8317
Flame shock 11 1,2% total dmg, avg hit 2386 avg crit 4803
Length 5 mins
DPS: 9868,6

With UE
LB: 48,2% of total dmg, avg hit = 9398 avg crit = 17393
Lavaburst 29.7% total dmg, avg crit 21798
Fulmination 7,8% total dmg, avg hit = 12784, average vrit 26639
Flame Shock dot 7,3% total dmg, Average hit = 1576, average crit = 3190
Unleash Flame 3,4% total dmg, Average hit = 4604, avg crit = 8846 (16,7% crit!)
Earth shock 2,5% total dmg avg, hit = 4293 avg crit = 9044
Flame Shock 1,1% total dmg, avg hit = 2412 acg crit = 4850
Length 5 mins
DPS: 9156,5


This second part is about using UE to power up your Flame Shock making it do 20% extra dmg.

Decided to do some testing with using UE for Flame Shock (since Zajec pointed out that it most likely would be a dpsincrease)
My testing was done using 5% haste totem and Flametounge totem, and each session lasted 5 minutes.
Furthermore I was using the Flame Shock glyph at the time:

Flame Shock dmg after 5 mins of keeping it up with UE:

Flame Shock (DoT):
112 hits doing 240704 dmg
89 normal tics with avg dng 1783
23 crits with avg dmg 3566
Unleash Elements:
11 hits doing 61495 dmg
8 hits doing 4393 dmg on avg
3 crits doing 8785 dmg on avg
Flame Shock (initial hit):
11 hits doing 35551 dmg
10 hits 1 crit

DPS: 1115.9

Flame shock dmg after 5 mins without UE
Flame Shock (dot)
112 hits doing 203863 dmg
89 normal hits doing 1510 dmg on avg
23 crits going 3020 dmg on average
Flame Shock (initial dmg)
11 hits doing 27708 dmg
10 hits 1 crit

DPS: 769

As you can see theres a huge difference in dps, but when you ignore the dmg dealt by UE in the test with UE you'll find that the dps drops til a lower level:

(240704 + 35551) / 300 = 920.85 dps.

Comparing this dps to the dps dealt when not using UE you'll find that

(1-(920.85(769))*100 = 19,8%

Using UE before every Flame Shock is an increase in flame shock dmg by 20% but is this dpsincrease of ~150 for one spell worth dropping 2 LB / minute?
I did the BH raid earlier today with a pug and my LBs were hitting for ~11k (as far as i could see atleast)
By ignoring crit and Overloads those 2 LBs that'll be replaced with UEs would have been doing 22k dmg every min.
The UEs do ~5590 dmg (average between hits and crits).
By substracting the UE numbers from the LB (non crit / ol) numbers we get a difference in dmg dealt by:
22000 - 2 x 5590 = 10820 dmg.
Then we translate this dmg into dps and get:
10820 / 60 = 180,33 dps

The difference between casting UE before every FS and not casting it (by ignoring the fact that the LBs the UE replace can crit and overload) is
180,33 - 150 = 30.33 dps
Not casting UE before every FS should increase your dmg by a minimum of 30 dps when compared to casting it!

Should you not be using the Glyph of Flame Shock the difference in dps will be greater since you'll be replacing 4 LBs with UE instead of 2.
That difference should be:

44000 - 4 x 5590 / 60 = 360.66
The difference in dps will then be
360.66 - 150 = 210,66
So if you are gonna be using UE before every FS reapply whilst not using the Glyph of Flame Shock you'll be loosing ATLEAST 210 dps when compared to not using it.
So, in conclusion using UE before your FS will provide you with a dps loss.
HOWEVER! if you are on the move and theres less than 7 secs till you need to reaply FS it will be a dpsincrease when compared to not using it on the move.

To conclude on both of my posts here:
It seems as if using UE as a normal part of our rotation will provide us with a dpsloss. It is however a good situational cooldown for when you're on the move and Spiritwalkers Grace is on cooldown since it will provide more dmg for your next FS or LvB and also because you dont really have anything else to spend your gcd on whilst you're running.

EDIT::
I totally forgot to add my view on taking UE: Flametounge of the GCD.
Should they somehow decide to take UE of the GCD it will ofc be providing us with a dpsincrease, but since it replaces a LB in our rotation it's just not worth using it as it stands.
Currently (as i've written above too) UE works as a good "on the move" abillity and will provide you with some extra dmg to make up for the fact that our dps suffer greatly when we're on the move.

//Ebayed and out

[Deleted]

btw UE adds 30% firedamage damage if u got elemental weapons talent in the resto tree..

[Lebored]

btw UE adds 30% firedamage damage if u got elemental weapons talent in the resto tree..

Enhance tree

[JulezNevah]

yes it might be a move to use when moving, but so is another new spell, the Spiritwalkers Grace, which still makes UE usless at times when moving

[PaintOnASign]

Would this really effect Enhance tho? I was under the impression that Lava Lash is physical? Or Does the UE buff still apply? Or are you just talking about the base damage not the fire buff?

We don't use it for Lava Lash (not that it works for it anyway), we use it to maintain a 30% increase in damage on our Flame Shock. It's very noticeable.