Thoughts on Ensidia going 10 Man

[Spl4sh3r]

Why? Because 10mans are easier to organise so even if Blizzard made it so both 10 and 25 bosses are equally tuned you would still have 15 less people who can screw up/dc/not show up for the raid.

I don't understand why people keep thinking 10mans are easier to organise. If you are a guild it should be the same difficulty no matter how many poeple you are. Also with the "15 less people who can screw up" is a false argument for this case seeing how with more people you can have more screwups and still complete whatever you are doing, while with 10man you can't screw up since that mostly means a wipe. With disconnects/not showing up it has nothing to do with anything we are talking about here. If people are serious they would have a good solid connection and will obviously show up (unless some sudden accident which can happen anyone not just 25man raids).

So all in all I will agree that 10man and 25man are the same. More people doesn't mean its more prestige, more people is just that...more people and nothing else.

[Epiclurker]

The only people who can really answer the question are the people who are actually in the running for world firsts. If they say the two are evenly designed then they are evenly designed, if they say one is hard then it is. Which one is harder has to be based on actual play, not personal preference.
There have always been and always will be fights that are harder on one then the other. Keep in mind that at proper gear levels OS 3D was way harder on 10 then it was on 25 man.

[Googolplex]

Ensidia frontloaded all the epics from their first reset to 10 people, and then went 10m because they realized it was the only way they could defeat Paragon.

To me its like giving up.

[sicness]

The only people who can really answer the question are the people who are actually in the running for world firsts. If they say the two are evenly designed then they are evenly designed, if they say one is hard then it is. Which one is harder has to be based on actual play, not personal preference.
There have always been and always will be fights that are harder on one then the other. Keep in mind that at proper gear levels OS 3D was way harder on 10 then it was on 25 man.

This. Unless you're in one of these guilds attempting world first hard modes then your opinion on the matter is really moot overall. I'm not saying you're not free to express yourself, but don't expect people to listen to you when you have no experience of the two and base this solely off theory crafting.

[coocoo]

This poll is flawed, it's missing a /care option for those of us who could care less ;p

[Awe]

and I consider myself "hardcore casual"

wtf is a "hardcore casual" anyway? this does not make sense. you are either hardcore or casual. and tbh anyone who was able to hit 85 in one day calling himself "casual" is laughable.

[anyaka21]

They probably went 10 man because it was innately easier to run and put together than a 25 man. Add that in a lot of the fights the spacing required becomes trivial, spreading out becomes a joke.

Add that you can pretty much easily cherry pick the best players and the most ideal comp for each boss fight as well.

I'm sure now that 10man is done, they'll be heading straight into 25mans and work on catching up to the others.

[woxingma]

I think its a cheap way of getting world firsts, and that after the LK25 incident they want an easy way back on top. Ensidia should easily have enough people to do 25 mans, and even though Blizz says they are the same difficulty, I can't see a fight like Twilight Council being as easy in 25 as it is in 10. Either they are cheaping out and taking the easy way, or there was so much guild drama that they can't afford 25 people now.

Tuned the same or not, 25 will almost always be more difficult. I imagine in 25 man heroic content, with the gear they have, losing one person is a wipe, just like it is in 10 man.

I think you are being overly general here. If 10 were just easier on every fight, Ensidia should be further along than the rest of the guilds by now. I think what we're seeing instead is some fights are easier on 10, some fights easier on 25, so the overall progress is very similar.

[Yooya]

Fights are easier or harder on a fight to fight basis. To have a complete consensus on whats easier or harder is entirely impossible. I think this becomes clear when you have fights like Throne of the Four Winds which is easier to pull off on 25 (even Ensidia did this on 25) then 10 man.

[cineplex]

i'd say no different than going 25 :/

[Indiglo]

Who really cares, they are just another guild.

[Conno]

A lot of ensidia players retired at the end of Wotlk, so i imagine that instead of rush recruitment they're taking their time and clearing it on ten. Credit to them.

[Faolchu]

While I'm not at the highest level of progression atm when my guild tries 25man its a slog and even with a few ppl underperforming its a lot more difficult than 10man. 10man every boss we've attempted has died inside of a few attempts its just not the same.

On a unrelated note I like the way they've gone with loot etc, I just wish there were seperate achievements ie nefarion(10) or (25).

[flashur]

I accept that as a plausible reason for why their first raid was a 10 man, however since then they have continued to do all the encounters at 10 man and have yet to do any 25 man. I have also heard on another post that they do indeed have two 10 mans going to make a comment about another recent post.

Well, the raid lockout system introduced meant that if you did a boss on heroic in 10 man, then you're locked to that heroic instance and can't do any heroics on 25 man. All they can do is do the other bosses on 25 man normal, which is not really what they want to do.

I'd imagine it's probably because :

a) They didn't have enough online at the time and decided to go 10 man and split the raid.
b) Possibility of gearing certain players up like tanks etc quicker so that they will be better equipped for the end bosses on heroic.
c) Having more than one team tackle the different bosses will allow them to see any possible changes made from beta and adapt.

The second point reflects how some of them and others see end bosses as the most important world first. Not that I'm saying Maloriak HC etc aren't important, but world first Sinestra is probably more highly regarded.

[Devlin1991]

I can see 10 heroic being harder than 25 heroic on a few encounters. Yes 25man is harder to organise but "harder to complete the content" is a different statement altogether.

Chimearon hc = 20% phase nearly everyone starts getting 2 shotted, 10man is 2 tanks then you start losing all your top dps very fast unless you have some lucky class combos (rogues/mages can last ages with Evasion or mirrors). 25man you have a lot more time before you lose the brunt of your best dps due to having a much bigger ratio of dps to healers.

I do think we should be able to easily see 10 or 25 kills on the armory though, I like having "10man/25man" guilds and 25man guilds have it much EASIER to get kills on hard bosse due to being able to funnel 5 bits of loot per boss to there prime 10 players and then swap to 10man x 2 once they start heroics or challenging normals.

[Mathaios]

2 and half more chance to beat a boss than a 25man group.

[Deleted]

I consider them equally challenging, varying a bit from boss to boss. For example a chain lightning mechanic could (but I'm not saying there is one) be balanced so that chaining it even once on 10man is fatal, while on 25man you'd have some leeway here. Bosses like Conclave of Wind, Omnotron (interrupts) and Nefarian (add control) with some "hassle" to take care of also take some extra work on 10man, as each person assigned to handle them is a bigger cut to the group's DPS/whatever than on 25man (which of course is taken to account in balancing, but once again, more leeway on 25man to for example put 2 people to handle it to make it more reliable).

There is a certain advantage they might've taken advantage of, that being that as 25man drops more loot than 10man, they could have a higher gear level in their 10man now if they chose to gear up 10 people on 25man last week.

[zizfizziks]

Don't care.

[melodramocracy]

In most 25 man encounters, you may be able to afford 1 or 2 people not performing 100%.

This is a bit less the case in 10 mans.

On the other hand, 25's seem far more chaotic, and it makes staying away from tunnel vision a bit tougher IMO.

[Deleted]

Couldn't keep up with Paragon, went 10 man so they can still have their name in lights. Seems like a cop-out, but I don't really care that much, just my opinion.