[TV] Doctor Who

[Immitis]

Your opinion would be more believable if you could refrain from calling mine stupid and putting words in my mouth as your entire argument. It's ok that you aren't capable of understanding what I'm talking about. That's readily apparent. Moving on now.

because it is stupid.

saying people cant connect with someone on a personal level or identify with them because their appearance is a bit older is stupid. if someone can connect with a 1000 plus year old time traveling alien with multiple faces, who has commited genocide on multiple races but has saved countless more and is always the most clever yet at the same time most silly and angry and sad all at the same time and is this emotional roller coaster with a young face but suddenly hes a bit older looking and they cant?

age has nothing to do with whether you can connect with someone or whether you can identify with their experiences and emotions.

hell people who watch this show can connect and relate with aliens that dont even look human.

its completely shallow to think otherwise since this will only effect the fangirls and nobody likes them anyways

[Arrowstormen]

The 13 rule was thrown in to create a plot for the Master stealing regenerations, as they probably never imagined they'd need 13 regenerations, and if they did, they could always change the rule. River gave the Doctor all her regenerations, so I wonder if that changes anything. But the rule is meaningless, even if they do mention it, it will be because the Doctor has already found a way around it, or because they will create a season main plot around it, ending with the Doctor finding a way around it.

[Immitis]

Yep, age has nothing to do with forming a connection at all.
I totally get there are tween girls who watch the show to fawn over Tennant or Smith but Doctor Who is not Twilight (the analogy being that Twilight exists purely for the target audience to be able to interject or project themselves into the story), but a sci-fi adventure.

And it's a sci-fi adventure that has, in my opinion, become far too light, fluffy and "twee" and needs to be dirtied up, made more dangerous, darker and serious. Not that it cannot be funny, Doctor Who has always been funny, but Smith who does channel Patrick Troughton an awful lot has completely missed the mark of what the role means.

Am I defending the era I grew up with? Of course, just as Kittyvicious is, but what saddens me is that having experienced the show from the very beginning through to now and through the audio adventures, I know what the show *can* be and it's fallen so far from that point. It's like having a craving for a gourmet truffle and being given a Mars bar. It'll do but you know it's more than capable of being much much better.

i dont agree with your assesment of smith. to me smith knows exactly what the role is about and out of all the doctors he to me has been one of the most dark ad the most gritty. he really carries the pain and the rage of the doctor which is why capaldi is a great choice to follow aftert that because of what ive seen of him he and the way he handles himself in roles like this is the perfect continuation of what smith started

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The 13 rule was thrown in to create a plot for the Master stealing regenerations, as they probably never imagined they'd need 13 regenerations, and if they did, they could always change the rule. River gave the Doctor all her regenerations, so I wonder if that changes anything. But the rule is meaningless, even if they do mention it, it will be because the Doctor has already found a way around it, or because they will create a season main plot around it, ending with the Doctor finding a way around it.

of course, i hardly ever see anyone who actually thinks they will just end it after 13. but it could make a nice plot or subplot in my opinion

[Kelimbror]

because it is stupid.

Sorry, you can't just tell people their opinions are stupid. It's against the forum rules and also is complete base and not worth acknowledgement. That statement quite literally has no worth. Have fun talking about Doctor Who with the maturity of the exact people (who I'm not even talking about by the way) that you keep bashing.

I love how mentioning people in their teens and twenties instantly translates to me personally asking for Doctor Who to become Twilight. The levels of ignorance that are bred inside someone to evoke that sort of fallacy has even me, a very cynical person, astounded. PS- I'm older than being assumed btw, to both posters.

Doctor Who is worse off for having fans that create cesspools of ignorance like this. Feel free to wallow about in it, I'll return when there's some logical, intelligent, and thoughtful conversation happening. I guess I should have known better than to seek that on MMO-C, regardless of what thread this is.

[Immitis]

Sorry, you can't just tell people their opinions are stupid. It's against the forum rules and also is complete base and not worth acknowledgement. That statement quite literally has no worth. Have fun talking about Doctor Who with the maturity of the exact people (who I'm not even talking about by the way) that you keep bashing.

I love how mentioning people in their teens and twenties instantly translates to me personally asking for Doctor Who to become Twilight. The levels of ignorance that are bred inside someone to evoke that sort of fallacy has even me, a very cynical person, astounded. PS- I'm older than being assumed btw, to both posters.

Doctor Who is worse off for having fans that create cesspools of ignorance like this. Feel free to wallow about in it, I'll return when there's some logical, intelligent, and thoughtful conversation happening. I guess I should have known better than to seek that on MMO-C, regardless of what thread this is.

because its logical to assume teens and tweens can only connect with good looking young people?

[Anjerith]

i dont agree with your assesment of smith. to me smith knows exactly what the role is about and out of all the doctors he to me has been one of the most dark ad the most gritty. he really carries the pain and the rage of the doctor which is why capaldi is a great choice to follow aftert that because of what ive seen of him he and the way he handles himself in roles like this is the perfect continuation of what smith started

I have enjoyed Matt Smith in the role, he has some great energy and emotional range that channels both the Tenth Doctor and the Third Doctor most prominently (With a little of 7 sprinkled on top).

Speaking of Pertwee, I loved -- looooved how much of a James Bond he made the Doctor into. I still remember one scene where a guard is trying to stop him from going into a secure facility and he is like "My dead fellow, if you don't move I am afraid I shall have to hurt KIYAAAAAAAAYYYAH!" and he grabs the guys face in his palm and slams him to the pavement.

I can still remember seeing that and going :U

[Immitis]

i really hope they reveal his costume soon. hoping its more like smiths current outfit and less like colin bakers :P

[Deleted]

You're just assuming he's going to be serious. That was kinda like how most were assuming Matt Smith was just going to act like an emo 20-something year old. :P

I'm hoping they put him somewhere along the lines of Jon Pertwee. Smart and elegant, but not to serious.

Pertwee not too serious? While the Third Doctor did have a sense of humour he was also the most patrician and judgemental of his incarnations and was just as likely to have a withering look of scorn or indignation in his eyes as a playful look. The Third Doctor also had to deal with a host of not pleasant emotions due to his forced stay on Earth and while never contemptuous of the humans around him he often lost his patience and could often be quite cantankerous when having to deal with authority or red tape. My memories of the Third Doctor is off someone just as likely to go off on a rant against the ineptitude he faced as he was running off with joyful glee to investigate some new curiosity. I would say the Third Doctor was quite serious.
But still, I think some people are overestimating the "seriousness" or even the "darkness" Capaldi will bring to the role. Despite casting an actor in his fifties and with great experience the show is still Doctor Who, moreover it's still NuWho. There is only so much more "seriousness" that they can add before they completely change the show. I do expect Capaldi's to share some of the character traits of the Third Doctor; having a warm personable nature which can turn in a moments notice into a more judgemental, more patrician persona more prone to adopt Time Lord "airs" . On the question the Doctor's aloofness he could actually go either way. Also, because Capaldi is a great physical actor I expect him to continue the trend of the past Doctors of expressing himself a great deal with his body, just with less energy than Tennant and Smith.
Yeah, Capaldi is older, but he's also a very good actor with a considerable range at his disposal and we shouldn't be too hasty on making assumptions of his Doctor on the basis of his age alone.

[Shockeye]

See I found Smith to be exceedingly light and never added his own stamp to the character. Every other actor in the role has added a personal touch that contributed to the constantly evolving nature of the character. Smith never did that, he just chose a few touchstones of the character and played to those, no new insights to the character manifested.

As for my use of a Twilight comparison, I quantified the relevance of that comparative point. Maybe it was over your head, I don't know, but the way you speak of connection to a character is *exactly* what the function of a piece like Twilight was built around -the ability of a viewer to project themselves into that world as the only way to connect with the characters.

Kitty, it's you that have created this conversation and it seems that if anyone disagrees with you, those people are somehow not intelligent. You criticise another person for calling your point "stupid" but that poster provides ample examples of how it's "stupid" while you, in turn, are just using more elaborate language to call other people's dissenting opinions likewise stupid. I'm seeing more interest in trying to create an image of higher intellect or taking the higher road via robust use of English, but your argument isn't made the stronger for it at all.

I can assure you that "Doctor Who fandom" is certainly not made the worse due to people like myself or others here and I'd argue that the opposite is true and your assertion that an older (like 55 is even old) Doctor is not relatable by the audience is what poisons the pool of fandom by demanding absurdly strict boundaries by which you personally wish to dwell within.

I would be *delighted* to talk at length about the show, it's history, lore, characters, actors etc and believe me, I can go on at great length! But when someone latches on to a superficial point like actor age, I'm not so sure what conversation can be had.

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Pertwee not too serious? While the Third Doctor did have a sense of humour he was also the most patrician and judgemental of his incarnations and was just as likely to have a withering look of scorn or indignation in his eyes as a playful look. The Third Doctor also had to deal with a host of not pleasant emotions due to his forced stay on Earth and while never contemptuous of the humans around him he often lost his patience and could often be quite cantankerous when having to deal with authority or red tape.

This is what made him so good as the Doctor - he had all the attributes of a Timelord but you could easily see why he chose to flee Gallifrey and break from the colossally bureaucratic Timelord culture.

I agree that Capaldi will not by default mean the show shifts to seriousness, and as you say he is quite capable of highly animated behaviour, but given his most famous role and his age, I believe his casting is a pretty clear statement of intent from both the BBC and the production team.

Moffat famously wanted the Doctor to be older while he was just a writer under RTD so the casting of Smith and the very light tones the show took was an unpleasant surprise for me and I can't help but think Smith's tenure was driven by BBC focus groups and not creative direction. Maybe now they are letting Moffat have a freer hand or something.

The Doctor has always expressed himself physically in one way or another, be it Hartnell's sternness, Tom Baker's blaise casualness and facial expressions, McCoy's scheming movements or Smith's direct channeling of Troughton's ambling about (but what Smith totally missed was that Troughton used those stances to trick people into underestimating him, it wasn't just affectations as Smith used, but that's fine).

I also think Capaldi made a very clear statement on his take on the Doctor by appearing on TV for the announcement in the first Doctor's classic pose of hands gripping his coat lapels.

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i really hope they reveal his costume soon. hoping its more like smiths current outfit and less like colin bakers :P

Sadly they are using Colin Baker's as a reference point.

[Immitis]

right now my 3 favorite doctors go

matt smith

patrick troughton

sylvester mccoy

but i have a feeling capaldi is gonna be right up there

[Shockeye]

Can't say as I have an absolute favourite, I've liked them all very much. Smith is my least favourite, but that's not to say I didn't like him.
Troughton, both Bakers, McCoy and McGann (based not on the movie but on his performances in the Big Finish audio adventures) are my favourites but I wouldn't place one above the others.

[yetgdhfgh]

i really hope they reveal his costume soon. hoping its more like smiths current outfit and less like colin bakers :P

God yeah i hope they wont put him in that colin baker clown outfit or make him look like someone who advertises for Werthers orginals

[Shockeye]

I'm thinking something dark (not necessarily all black) and elegantly tailored but with indicators of the usual madness. So say dark plaid pants for example. Actually, a darker version of the 6th Doctor's coat, vest, pants and shoes would work very well with a nice tie.

Something along a modern Edwardian, style and hard lines but no fluff or fancy...subdued.

[cyberglum]

I think the return of the Original Doctors outfit would be good.

[Gizmoe]

I can not stop laughing, that is brilliant!

[cyberglum]

I can not stop laughing, that is brilliant!

Best bit is his reply to "Run you clever boy."

Cracks me up.

[yetgdhfgh]

I can not stop laughing, that is brilliant!

Its the comments that make me laugh the most

Some of them are so fucking retarded like people thinking this is an actual trailer for the new doctor who and wondering why the doctor will now swear alot. lol

[Kelesti]

Best bit is his reply to "Run you clever boy."

Cracks me up.

"We've fuckin' Time Travelled, yes?!"

[Gallahadd]

I'm thinking something dark (not necessarily all black) and elegantly tailored but with indicators of the usual madness. So say dark plaid pants for example. Actually, a darker version of the 6th Doctor's coat, vest, pants and shoes would work very well with a nice tie.

Something along a modern Edwardian, style and hard lines but no fluff or fancy...subdued.

100% on board with that . I love them to take a slightly steampunk angle (Steampunk and Doctor Who are PERFECT partners IMO.) have the tardis all walnut, brass and crystal, like the inside of a victorian working mans club, or a minor noble's study. Then have him in a well tailored suit, muted colours, but exceptionally cut and styled and have the sonic screwdriver hidden inside a "Sonic Cane" (think like a swordcane, but instead of being a sword blade, it'd be a sonic screwdriver, or like Lucis Malfoy's wand in HP)... Nerdgasms everywhere.

Probably not to everyones taste... Well probably no ones bit mine, but if they did that I'd be a happy Whovian .

[Mormolyce]

Well I'm not a big fan of the new series, some episodes have been good but it's way too mawkish for my liking and has a fair bit of intentional silliness. The last two Doctors have been pretty good though (I probably would've liked them more if I liked the show itself better). But I do like the idea of casting an older Doctor, I was starting to think modern TV tastes meant any future Doctor had to be young and fresh-faced (not that that's bad, but an older Doctor can be good too). And I fucking love Peter Capaldi in The Thick of It... obviously his character as the Doctor would have to be different though haha. Er... right?

Pertwee not too serious? While the Third Doctor did have a sense of humour he was also the most patrician and judgemental of his incarnations and was just as likely to have a withering look of scorn or indignation in his eyes as a playful look. The Third Doctor also had to deal with a host of not pleasant emotions due to his forced stay on Earth and while never contemptuous of the humans around him he often lost his patience and could often be quite cantankerous when having to deal with authority or red tape. My memories of the Third Doctor is off someone just as likely to go off on a rant against the ineptitude he faced as he was running off with joyful glee to investigate some new curiosity. I would say the Third Doctor was quite serious.
But still, I think some people are overestimating the "seriousness" or even the "darkness" Capaldi will bring to the role. Despite casting an actor in his fifties and with great experience the show is still Doctor Who, moreover it's still NuWho. There is only so much more "seriousness" that they can add before they completely change the show. I do expect Capaldi's to share some of the character traits of the Third Doctor; having a warm personable nature which can turn in a moments notice into a more judgemental, more patrician persona more prone to adopt Time Lord "airs" . On the question the Doctor's aloofness he could actually go either way. Also, because Capaldi is a great physical actor I expect him to continue the trend of the past Doctors of expressing himself a great deal with his body, just with less energy than Tennant and Smith.
Yeah, Capaldi is older, but he's also a very good actor with a considerable range at his disposal and we shouldn't be too hasty on making assumptions of his Doctor on the basis of his age alone.

I disagree, the Third Doctor was a lot more warm hearted and less cantankerous than the First and even Second. And not that serious either. If anything I felt Pertwee's Doctor was a bit too nice, I like it when he's more cranky (eg, William Hartnell) or space cadet-ey (eg, Tom Baker).

Though I do like Pertwee's Doctor all the same.

right now my 3 favorite doctors go

matt smith

patrick troughton

sylvester mccoy

but i have a feeling capaldi is gonna be right up there

Substitute Tom Baker for Matt Smith and you have mine

I maintain that there are no bad Doctors, only bad seasons. My least favourite would probably be Eccleston out of the new Doctors. I guess Peter Davison out of the classic Doctors. He had an interesting range of companions though.

100% on board with that . I love them to take a slightly steampunk angle (Steampunk and Doctor Who are PERFECT partners IMO.) have the tardis all walnut, brass and crystal, like the inside of a victorian working mans club, or a minor noble's study.

Eh, personally I prefer DW not to be so steampunk. Dr Who has its own style, should be separate.

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IMO The Troughton to Pertwee was NOT a regeneration

If you watch the serial the wargames (Which i highly recommend) you will see the Timelords force the doctor to change his appearance they dont say he has to regenerate. The reason they make him change his appearance was because they was gonna exile him on earth and the doctor said he was too well known on earth so the timelords as part of his sentence for time meddling changed his appearance and dumped him on earth.

So we should deduct at least one regeneration but you could argue when tennant got winged by that dalek in the stolen earth that couldve meant he spent that regeneration.

It's still an official regeneration. They hadn't quite bedded the regeneration process in stone back then.

It seems like Time Lords can actually choose a new appearance if they want to - Romana tried a bunch of different ones on. Presumably this didn't expend a regeneration each time. Maybe there's a grace period during the regeneration as long as the regeneration is not brought on by extreme stress to the body (ie death) where it can be controlled more easily. Or maybe you just need access to adequate facilities etc.

Or maybe it's a plot hole because it's an old show :P

Timelords can initiate regeneration at will and that's the norm for those not gallavanting about space and time causing trouble.
Romana initiated that regeneration voluntarily although with very questionable motives (the reason being she rather liked Princess Astra's look and figured it was harmless to borrow it, but they had to come up with some reason to transition the departing Mary Tamm to Lalla Ward).
The Doctor always regenerates under trauma and duress so he doesn't control the process at all but the TARDIS looks out for him and tries to protect him during the regeneration.

I often wondered if the Doctor deliberately chose not to control his regenerations out of some acceptance of change, where for example the Master deliberately kept his as similar as possible. And Romana being a non-renegade Time Lord just regarded the Doctor's attitude as quaint, changing her shape is no big deal to her.

Awww yea just made my own Dr Who fanon right there.