[TV] Doctor Who

[Deleted]

If we are indeed looking at Clara's descent into darkness, I take it all back - I love her arc (aside from making her super important to the Doctor's history). I'd love to see the Doctor dumping her back at her house after she disappoints him.

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I don't see how they will twist it so Clara leaves and Danny enters if the Doctor drives her away.

Maybe by the season finale Danny is against Clara as well? Or maybe he doesn't actually tag along with the Doctor. The actor doesn't even know if he'll be back, he might just be a one-season character to flesh out Clara and the Doctor's hatred of soldiers.

[Endus]

I think that's what the Doctor meant in the last lines, that the reason Clara makes a good Doctor is because she's willing to let people die for the greater good - and the Doctor hates that about himself - and like Moffat said he's realizing that his time with Clara is actually making her a morally worse person. Clara is slowly becoming detached, like the Doctor.

The thing is, I don't for one second believe the Doctor is detached. He tries to be, so he can make the hard choices, but he's never able to pull it off, really. That's why the overall arc of NuWho has been the Doctor getting over the terrible choices he made to end the Time War. He can barely live with himself.

Hell, you can practically label the actors of NuWho by the stages of grief. Eccleston was Denial and Isolation; he kept himself apart and tried to forget what he'd done. Tennant was Anger; easily the angriest of the NuWho Doctors. Smith was Bargaining; he was trying to justify his choices. Capaldi's doing a pretty bang-up job at Depression, IMO. The final stage, and the next Doctor, would be Acceptance, where he's finally healed and ready to move on.

This whole pattern wouldn't make sense if the Doctor was an emotionally detached guy who totally believed in doing what was needed, damn the costs.

The problem is; Clara is that kind of person. So, as mentioned, she isn't making the Doctor better. And I don't think it's just about whether the Doctor is making Clara worse, I think she is at risk of making the Doctor worse. He'll mention something terrible, and rather than calling him on the bullshit like any other companion would, she'd roll up her shirtsleeves and get ready to start doing terrible things in his name.

Frankly, I think he's going to ask her to do something impossible, something nobody would agree to do, and she'll jump right in and do it. And then he's gonna leave her at her door with her bags packed.

The big question for me is how Danny's going to fit into all this; they haven't clarified what, precisely, happened with him, but it's clear he was pushed to the edge with the Army, and he left them as a result. Clara didn't leave, she changed, into someone who was totally willing to do those things. That's completely the opposite path that Danny took, and I don't think it's one he'll be accepting of. Which could quite possible mean a giant blow-up between Danny, Clara, and the Doctor, a massive three-way row that ends up with the two of them breaking up with Clara, and the Doctor realizing that maybe a conscientious soldier is exactly who he needs right now. Someone who's seen those depths, and chose to step back, like Danny has.

[Gallahadd]

and the Doctor realizing that maybe a conscientious soldier is exactly who he needs right now. Someone who's seen those depths, and chose to step back, like Danny has.

100% agreed, with both your overall point and this last sentence.

I think right now, with how he is, with WHO he is, the Doctor doesn't need someone like Clara in his life. Then frankly, with the way she's changing, I don't think Clara needs someone like the Doctor in her life, turning her basically into less of a human.

However someone like Danny, who can understand the horrible shit that the Doctor has done, is a far more balanced and compelling character to pair him with, so I really wouldn't be surprised, (assuming they both surive the finalé...) if Clara stayed at home for the next season and Danny was the one coming with him in the Tardis... That's why there's been no REAL news about if she's leaving, if her and Danny are staying, no casting news on a new companion... Because the actual CASTING is remaining the same, the only difference is that Danny will be entering the Tardis and Clara will be the one staying at home, talking on the phone and every so often coming along on an adventure.

Or if neither survive, if the new companion was someone very similar to Danny.

[Arrowstormen]

Maybe by the season finale Danny is against Clara as well? Or maybe he doesn't actually tag along with the Doctor. The actor doesn't even know if he'll be back, he might just be a one-season character to flesh out Clara and the Doctor's hatred of soldiers.

Think he's lying, he would definitely know now that they've filmed the Christmas special (which Clara will also be in as far as I know). The way his grandchild said one of his grandparents had told him stories about time travel makes me think he referred to Danny.

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100% agreed, with both your overall point and this last sentence.

I think right now, with how he is, with WHO he is, the Doctor doesn't need someone like Clara in his life. Then frankly, with the way she's changing, I don't think Clara needs someone like the Doctor in her life, turning her basically into less of a human.

However someone like Danny, who can understand the horrible shit that the Doctor has done, is a far more balanced and compelling character to pair him with, so I really wouldn't be surprised, (assuming they both surive the finalé...) if Clara stayed at home for the next season and Danny was the one coming with him in the Tardis... That's why there's been no REAL news about if she's leaving, if her and Danny are staying, no casting news on a new companion... Because the actual CASTING is remaining the same, the only difference is that Danny will be entering the Tardis and Clara will be the one staying at home, talking on the phone and every so often coming along on an adventure.

Or if neither survive, if the new companion was someone very similar to Danny.

I just don't buy that, I don't think Clara would be okay with that. And I don't see the Doctor dropping her to protect her from him and then have Danny instead either. I'm more inclined to believe she's forced to leave the Doctor, either she dies or something else happens like with Rose/Amy/Donna.

[Deleted]

100% agreed, with both your overall point and this last sentence.

I think right now, with how he is, with WHO he is, the Doctor doesn't need someone like Clara in his life. Then frankly, with the way she's changing, I don't think Clara needs someone like the Doctor in her life, turning her basically into less of a human.

However someone like Danny, who can understand the horrible shit that the Doctor has done, is a far more balanced and compelling character to pair him with, so I really wouldn't be surprised, (assuming they both surive the finalé...) if Clara stayed at home for the next season and Danny was the one coming with him in the Tardis... That's why there's been no REAL news about if she's leaving, if her and Danny are staying, no casting news on a new companion... Because the actual CASTING is remaining the same, the only difference is that Danny will be entering the Tardis and Clara will be the one staying at home, talking on the phone and every so often coming along on an adventure.

Or if neither survive, if the new companion was someone very similar to Danny.

I don't think that Clara and Danny will be together by the end of the season. Not if they take Clara down that dark route.

On a related note it'll be interesting to see the Doctor without a female companion for once.

[Kelimbror]

On a related note it'll be interesting to see the Doctor without a female companion for once.

The show would vastly improve if the Doctor dumped Clara on her butt and stole Danny away for a while.

[Arrowstormen]

The show would vastly improve if the Doctor dumped Clara on her butt and stole Danny away for a while.

For you maybe. I'm into stories, and Clara (and the Doctor for that matter) has had a much more interesting and changing arc this season than any other companion has had.

[Kelimbror]

For you maybe. I'm into stories, and Clara (and the Doctor for that matter) has had a much more interesting and changing arc this season than any other companion has had.

I am also into stories...which is why watching a character be mostly vapid and watching us superimpose our own theories on why she's so amazing is boringly droll. No last minute revelation will rewrite the acting and bad dialogue she's taken part in over many episodes. She could be God incarnate by the Christmas special and it doesn't make what we already watched any more exceptional.

It's like if IRL Keanu Reeves was actually the Messiah and suddenly we all praised his acting in every terrible character he's ever played. Suddenly Bill & Ted was oscar worthy and we all just 'didn't understand'.

[Gallahadd]

It's like if IRL Keanu Reeves was actually the Messiah and suddenly we all praised his acting in every terrible character he's ever played. Suddenly Bill & Ted was oscar worthy and we all just 'didn't understand'.

Tested and proved to be a true fact in the Matrix

On the previous topic: I know it's not THAT believable that Clara would stay behind while Danny went on adventures, it's just what I WANT to happen, because I'm bored with Clara (despite her arc actually being pretty good this season and my opinion improving with every episode) and think Danny has INSANE potential as a companion. So I'm willing to fudge possibility

[Endus]

I just don't buy that, I don't think Clara would be okay with that. And I don't see the Doctor dropping her to protect her from him and then have Danny instead either. I'm more inclined to believe she's forced to leave the Doctor, either she dies or something else happens like with Rose/Amy/Donna.

You only say that because three of the four last sets of companions were yanked away from the Doctor while they were still enjoying each other. Rose and Donna in particular; Amy and Rory were gearing up to go, anyway, they just skipped out on a proper "goodbye". Martha's the only one who chose to leave, because she had unrequited feelings and knew they were unrequited and likely always would be.

It's like a lighter form of what happened with Donna. Being around the Doctor has changed Clara, and not for the better. He's come close to breaking her (and may, at that, before the end). If all that mess ends up with a breakup with Danny (which I honestly see coming; she's still casually lying to him about things), then if they play it right, and Danny sees that Clara's collapse is her fault, and happened despite the Doctor, not because of him, then I can easily see the Doctor dropping Clara off for her own good, and taking Danny away so they can get drunk and bitch about it on the far moons of Paloriax (place completely made up). And then coming to an agreement that maybe they both need each other over the shenanigans that result, and then they blitz off to save the universe.

The Doctor's perfectly capable of dumping a companion. He's done it before. Not in NuWho, but it's totally in the canon. Or hell, look what happened to that one guy who got a hole put in his head; he broke the rules, and the Doctor kicked him out. He wasn't around long, but the same principle applies.

The Doctor needs a Companion to keep him on the right track, and keep reminding him that he's doing the right thing (or smack him when he isn't). Clara's not doing that. And she's losing her moral sense to boot. She's bad for the Doctor, and the Doctor is bad for her, and I think the Doctor sees that now. I predict the next episode he'll try and fix that, and fail to do so.

[Kelimbror]

Tested and proved to be a true fact in the Matrix

None of us ever thought he even acted well in those movies. It was some of the worst. Pretty much the only movies that he nailed were Point Break, Constantine, and Speed. And that's because they wrote all of those characters to be him in real life, lol.

Danny has INSANE potential as a companion.

I would just be glad to see a male companion for a new dynamic with the Doctor and supporting cast and Clara is terribly stale. She's survived her expiration date for me, which is really ok. Not all companions need to stay around for a million years like Amy and Rory. I wouldn't even be fussed if he spent some time on screen without a companion. Capaldi has some serious weight with the inner (but spoken out loud) monologues. Might be nice to see him go right crazy without a companion.

[Gallahadd]

None of us ever thought he even acted well in those movies. It was some of the worst. Pretty much the only movies that he nailed were Point Break, Constantine, and Speed. And that's because they wrote all of those characters to be him in real life, lol.

I know, I was making a joke about Keanu playing the Messiah in The Matrix and he was still shite.

I would just be glad to see a male companion for a new dynamic with the Doctor and supporting cast and Clara is terribly stale. She's survived her expiration date for me, which is really ok. Not all companions need to stay around for a million years like Amy and Rory. I wouldn't even be fussed if he spent some time on screen without a companion. Capaldi has some serious weight with the inner (but spoken out loud) monologues. Might be nice to see him go right crazy without a companion.

Agreed, They've really changed up the Doctor, they need to change up the Companion and the dynamic as well. I think the best way to do that would be to have a Hardenened, harsher male companion... Maybe a solider with PTSD...

[Kelimbror]

I know, I was making a joke about Keanu playing the Messiah in The Matrix and he was still shite.

Oh yeah, I got it...I just wanted to elaborate b/c he deserves it for being so awful. Keanu Reeves as the Doctor + Clara Oswald in the new Doctor adventures. Who can out bore you with their lack of personality? How many times can deus ex save the day? Find out next Sunday! *cries in corner*

[Deleted]

I wouldn't mind seeing Clara as a semi-recurring, semi-antagonistic character in S9. Like she's been kicked out the TARDIS but decides to go off on adventures on her own, and becomes a freelance alien activity investigator (like Martha but we actually see some of her adventures). We still haven't seen her first (chronological) visit to UNIT have we?

[Arrowstormen]

You only say that because three of the four last sets of companions were yanked away from the Doctor while they were still enjoying each other. Rose and Donna in particular; Amy and Rory were gearing up to go, anyway, they just skipped out on a proper "goodbye". Martha's the only one who chose to leave, because she had unrequited feelings and knew they were unrequited and likely always would be.

It's like a lighter form of what happened with Donna. Being around the Doctor has changed Clara, and not for the better. He's come close to breaking her (and may, at that, before the end). If all that mess ends up with a breakup with Danny (which I honestly see coming; she's still casually lying to him about things), then if they play it right, and Danny sees that Clara's collapse is her fault, and happened despite the Doctor, not because of him, then I can easily see the Doctor dropping Clara off for her own good, and taking Danny away so they can get drunk and bitch about it on the far moons of Paloriax (place completely made up). And then coming to an agreement that maybe they both need each other over the shenanigans that result, and then they blitz off to save the universe.

The Doctor's perfectly capable of dumping a companion. He's done it before. Not in NuWho, but it's totally in the canon. Or hell, look what happened to that one guy who got a hole put in his head; he broke the rules, and the Doctor kicked him out. He wasn't around long, but the same principle applies.

The Doctor needs a Companion to keep him on the right track, and keep reminding him that he's doing the right thing (or smack him when he isn't). Clara's not doing that. And she's losing her moral sense to boot. She's bad for the Doctor, and the Doctor is bad for her, and I think the Doctor sees that now. I predict the next episode he'll try and fix that, and fail to do so.

I know he can dump her, but I can't currently see a maneuver where it makes sense for him to do that and still be able to get Danny on board. I'm inclined to think Moffat will pull the rug under us and do some weird unexpected thing in the Christmas episode. I don't see her being around without the Doctor, alive and well, by her own free will, even if the Doctor tries to avoid her as if she was a desperate ex. Also, Amy and Rory were thinking about leaving him in the episode prior to their departure, but chose him. Which is why it was sad that they were then forced by the angel's shenanigans to leave him anyway.

[apepi]

I totally agree on the last point. Moffat said an interesting thing on Doctor Who Extra (iPlayer show that airs after Doctor Who in the UK). He said the role of the companion is to be with the Doctor and try to make him a better person. This time round the Doctor is slowly starting to realise that instead he is making Clara a worse person.

I think in a coming episode we're going to see Clara face another impossible choice, like she did in Kill the Moon... The only difference IS this time she'll take the harsh "people died, don't care" option and she'll do it without remorse. This will cause the Doctor to realize he's broken her and start to try and drive her away.

It sounds like he is on the same page as me, haha.I decided to go find what you are talking about, here it it:

[Gallahadd]

It's a good series, worth checking out the other shows. They put it up just after the episode airs, its on youtube in about 15 mins

[Dasffion]

None of us ever thought he even acted well in those movies. It was some of the worst. Pretty much the only movies that he nailed were Point Break, Constantine, and Speed. And that's because they wrote all of those characters to be him in real life, lol.

I thought he was good in the first one. Mostly because he had no idea what was going on for 90% of the movie and he does that very well.

[apepi]

It's a good series, worth checking out the other shows. They put it up just after the episode airs, its on youtube in about 15 mins

I usually check them all out, some I forget though. So far the last 4 episodes have been great(even with Clara), I hope they can keep it going. While the next episode looks like a filler, I have some hopes for it.

[Gallahadd]

I don't think the next one will be filler. See the next one is the penultimate episode before the big two part finalé. Add in the presence of not JUST Danny Pink, but also a load of school kids...

I have a distinct impression that some seriously bad shit is about to go down and that's going to set the events in motion that will take place in the finale.