Is it just me or is frost better than fire for right now

[mgjr]

I've tried Fire, Frost, and Arcane. I just can't bring myself to stay arcane for more than one day. I really like fire and assumed I would it would be primary for me, but after running more than a few dungeons my frost spec is doing better than my fire spec by more than a little. That tip on the forums about using coldsnap right after doing deep freeze and Frost orb so you can cast both again right away ups the damage. I also like the rotation. It's more than just push a button. I keep three stacks of FFB up, I have it Glyphed, I use Ice Lance when Icy or Time Warp isn't up on FOF procs. use Pet Freeze when Brain Freeze procs or Deep Freeze is off CD. I really enjoy it and it's doing more DPS than fire. The crit rating stuff SUX for me wtih fire. Having to sacrafice to much Haste and Mastery fir Hit seems to affect fire more than frost. Of Course I could just be doing it wrong. Though, I did have an arcane mage in BH today whisper me about how I was kicking his butt using Frost. Frost seems to still suffer from the perception that it is way behind in PVE.

[Swizzle]

It's just you.

[-Rain]

Uuh, it isn't news that frost is the dominant spec right now =) Any claims otherwise are 100% incorrect. If you need further proof, Ensidia, for the horde, paragon.. go check their mages' specs

[nkrumah]

You answered your own question. The crit rating issue (and probably mana concerns with FFB/fireball spam) means frost will trump fire for at least this patch cycle. I don't have the mathematic patience and/or wherewithal to figure out the numbers, but my gut tells me it'll be competitive for a while.

[Swizzle]

Uuh, it isn't news that frost is the dominant spec right now =) Any claims otherwise are 100% incorrect. If you need further proof, Ensidia, for the horde, paragon.. go check their mages' specs

Overall 359 Spec DPS Comparison:



Overall 372 Spec DPS Comparison:

[cybermind]

The graphs are for perfect movement-less fights and lag-free rotations, so that doesn't matter. Paragon and Ensidia's player are better than you, so that doesn't matter.

If you can personally do better damage as frost, while still contributing in other ways to groups, go frost. Period.

[tekoix]

Fire does seem to be dominant most of the time, but bad players will find frost much easier to cope with.

[SyanideLS]

Fire does seem to be dominant most of the time, but bad players will find frost much easier to cope with.

I like your logic considering frost is far harder to play correctly than fire is especially if you use molten armor over mage armor.


Frost is dominant in terms of its dps combined with its survivability and superior control in a raid enviornment I would much rather supply the raid with all the things frost offers over a maximum of about 1000dps in obtainable gear at the moment.

Fire does have far superior aoe without question. Its pretty much a prefernce as of right now, altough fire will eventually outscale frost as crit ratings rise.

[flinchy]

fire also has better movement (scorch while moving while costing no mana), better survivability too (cauterize)

arcane is by far the easiest spec, though

burn, then conserve, easy.

[ainra]

The graphs are for perfect movement-less fights and lag-free rotations, so that doesn't matter. Paragon and Ensidia's player are better than you, so that doesn't matter.

If you can personally do better damage as frost, while still contributing in other ways to groups, go frost. Period.

I believe this is the best response you have gotten! Take it.

[Mazaxist]

i like fire. right now im at 25% crit so it isnt as good as it was pre cata... NEED MORE CRIT!

but FROST is defintely awesome compared to what it was in Wrath... you can actually raid as frost now! and do good dps too!! lol

[Vlaria]

Overall 359 Spec DPS Comparison:



Overall 372 Spec DPS Comparison:

Guess what. Almost none of you will have this gear anytime soon, so linking it just makes you look stupid.

The reason frost looks so appealing right now is that fire requires a certain amount of crit, and it's likely many people, such as yourself don't have enough of that stat to have the luxury of rolling ignites/HS's which allow fire to really shine. It may actually be more viable to be frost for you until you reach a certain gear plateau. I don't know what that plateau is though.

[dwbrown7680]

Guess what. Almost none of you will have this gear anytime soon, so linking it just makes you look stupid.

The reason frost looks so appealing right now is that fire requires a certain amount of crit, and it's likely many people, such as yourself don't have enough of that stat to have the luxury of rolling ignites/HS's which allow fire to really shine. It may actually be more viable to be frost for you until you reach a certain gear plateau. I don't know what that plateau is though.

You do realize that it's pretty easy to be in 3-4 359's before you even start raiding, and the beginning bosses of each raid aren't even remotely difficult? To say that almost none of us will have that gear anytime soon is a wrong statement that makes YOU look stupid, as getting to a 359 ilvl is actually going to be pretty easy and happen quick enough. Now if you would have said you were referencing the 372 chart, I might have been more sympathetic to your cause.

[Deleted]

You probably already knew this but, if your grp doesent have replenishment, they will take you for sure (as frost), cos healer mana is an issue atm.

[Vlaria]

You do realize that it's pretty easy to be in 3-4 359's before you even start raiding, and the beginning bosses of each raid aren't even remotely difficult? To say that almost none of us will have that gear anytime soon is a wrong statement that makes YOU look stupid, as getting to a 359 ilvl is actually going to be pretty easy and happen quick enough. Now if you would have said you were referencing the 372 chart, I might have been more sympathetic to your cause.

The term soon is relative. And it seems that you are upset. Don't be. Regardless of how "easy" it is to get gear, consider the % of people currently attaining said raid gear. I firmly believe that these percents will not increase to the point where "everyone" has loot for another few months simply because until they nerf the encounters, the "average" player won't be capable. Sure you will get a piece of loot here or there from the pvp boss and the opening bosses, but by no means will your gear match that of the gear used in the simcrafts.

[Deleted]

The reason that those mages from top guilds have a pve frost spec is because of the control and the dmg burst it provides.

[pallyballz]

Uuh, it isn't news that frost is the dominant spec right now =) Any claims otherwise are 100% incorrect. If you need further proof, Ensidia, for the horde, paragon.. go check their mages' specs

Your an idiot. Just cause they have a Frost spec DOES NOT mean they use if for raiding. Go take a look at their WOL's. They are all clearly playing Fireball. Do some research before stating this crap.

Frost = Decent DPS / I don't have to worry about mana
Fire = Dominant if you know what your doing

[Shamslam]

Fire does seem to be dominant most of the time, but bad players will find frost much easier to cope with.

Not that any of the specs are hard...but fire is not any "harder" than frost.

Personally, I like frost more and usually can get more DPS out of frost, mostly because RNG is a bitch with Fire whereas I at least can guarantee myself 2 FoF procs every 25 seconds with Frost. I figure once I can get more gear I'll swap back to Fire but for now, low stat ratings just makes Fire a pain in the ass too much.

[Dazed]

Frost does still have more utility than Fire mages currently, but Fire mages take the lead in DPS.
In heavy control-required encounters, Frost will be better, due to the sheer quantity of utility slows, stuns, snares they have.
Also the Ice Barrier is nothing to go by.

[Frozenshiva]

The term soon is relative. And it seems that you are upset. Don't be. Regardless of how "easy" it is to get gear, consider the % of people currently attaining said raid gear. I firmly believe that these percents will not increase to the point where "everyone" has loot for another few months simply because until they nerf the encounters, the "average" player won't be capable. Sure you will get a piece of loot here or there from the pvp boss and the opening bosses, but by no means will your gear match that of the gear used in the simcrafts.

point.... is....mooot.

the question was if frost is better than fire. answer Fire is better than frost. period.
Gear is really not that big of an issue right now as to change the tides to that degree. Fire IS superior. Frost however gives more utility through better kiting ability/survivability/replenishment.
On top of that frost is way to dependent on FoF to deal damage. It's far to easy to blow your damage into the ground by simply having bad luck with that 20% proc rate. One run you're doing 15k dps and the next one you have bad FoF proc rate and you're down to 12k at least. When raiding you're looking for as much stability as possible. Fire offers somewhat more stability.