Blizzard redesigning ISF

[Bakis]

I like ISF, I dont like its current design.
At the moment the downsides far outweight the fun of ISF so I want it gone, even tho I would love to have it operational in a way that doesnt get scalingissues or too narrow timeframes to refresh stuff.

Anything hastening my god awfull SB's is a good thing in itself.

[Deleted]

They'll almost have to do one of two things:

a) Make the 15% haste available individually to each spec, from a spec-specific ability. This could be Haunt, Hand of Gul'dan and Soulfire (move ISF down the tree a bit). This would avoid having to adjust other mechanics to compensate for Affliction and Demonology's current reliance on ISF, and would place the buff on abilities more natural to their respective specs. I think we can all agree that having to cast ISF as Aff or Demo is stupid and annoying.

b) Tie it properly into Soulburn, which currently has very little use other than insta-casting SF. It's a pitiful imitation of the original importance of the soul shard mechanic, and I would like to see more emphasis on it. Something could be made akin to Soulburn: Seed of Corruption where the soul shard is refunded if the ability succesfully resolves so that you can still keep the buff up permanently if you play correctly. This would keep Soulfire's place in the rotation for Destruction who still get insta-cast procs from the little guy and alleviate the need for the other specs to cast a spell that doesn't fit them at all.

[Bakis]

They'll almost have to do one of two things:

a) Make the 15% haste available individually to each spec, from a spec-specific ability. This could be Haunt, Hand of Gul'dan and Soulfire (move ISF down the tree a bit). This would avoid having to adjust other mechanics to compensate for Affliction and Demonology's current reliance on ISF, and would place the buff on abilities more natural to their respective specs. I think we can all agree that having to cast ISF as Aff or Demo is stupid and annoying.

b) Tie it properly into Soulburn, which currently has very little use other than insta-casting SF. It's a pitiful imitation of the original importance of the soul shard mechanic, and I would like to see more emphasis on it. Something could be made akin to Soulburn: Seed of Corruption where the soul shard is refunded if the ability succesfully resolves so that you can still keep the buff up permanently if you play correctly. This would keep Soulfire's place in the rotation for Destruction who still get insta-cast procs from the little guy and alleviate the need for the other specs to cast a spell that doesn't fit them at all.

Well, A is kinda tricky. Our damage in PvP as affliction is already very strong. If we would tie it to haunt we would probably deal too much damage since today PvP affliction does not have access to it and we are, as I said doing very potent damage in PvP already without 15% haste.

[Deleted]

Maybe, but most of the DPS boost from ISF actually comes from the boost to SB spam which is still like 30% of affliction's PvE DPS, and isn't doable in PvP. I just don't think Blizzard will make the effort at a time like this to sit and analyze affliction and demonology damage sources to accurately compensate for the loss of 15% haste. I'm more worried that they'll simply move ISF further down the tree and call it a day.

[Nikkej]

Just leave it as it is? I dont really see the problem.

[Seezer]

As much as I didn't like the idea at first, I've gotten used to it. And I just don't see blizz redesigning it to our benefit. We're probably going to take some kind of loss. I think the best they can do it reduce the cooldown, or lengthen the buff and leave the cd at 15 seconds. The biggest issue right now with it is timing. I have no problem casting it. I've got used to it and have got pretty good at timing it. But there are those times where I have my soul fire land before the buff falls off. I've found it pretty save to start the cast at 2 seconds. I just don't want a nerf. I'll take a clunky mechanic over a nerf any day.

[Bakis]

Just leave it as it is? I dont really see the problem.

Curious how much you raid. Most warlocks would say its tedious to be a slave to such a short timer in fights involving movement etc when all specs already have other short timers to handle.

[nocturnus]

Curious how much you raid. Most warlocks would say its tedious to be a slave to such a short timer in fights involving movement etc when all specs already have other short timers to handle.

Have you asked most warlocks? I, for example, don't mind the mechanic at all. I play both destro as af, depending on the encounter. This change will result in a nerf to all trees, I'm 100% sure of it.

Affliction = Shadow, and only Shadow
Destruction = Fire, and only Fire (yes, I remember TBC Destruction)

What a pile of bs. For your info, SB is a destruction spell, therefore that whole argument is void. Shadow fury and shadowburn both do shadow damage and both of them are in the destruction tree. Stop bringing up this ridiculous, made up, argument. Any destro warlock not inclusing corr and coa in their rotation is a crap warlock, the talent trees simply ENHANCEcertain abilities, it doesn't guarantee exclusivity of spell usage. That's why people call it a spec: specialization

ISF is IMO a fun mechanic that distinguishes the good locks from the bad ones. Good, focussed warlocks are able to mainain a close to 100% uptime which allows them to do impressive dps. Bad warlocks fail at this and perform terrible. I say keep it like this, we don't wan't to be the mages of cata now do we?

[Deleted]

Just move the talent down at tier (up a tier?) to tier 3 in Destro. Problem solved, just out of reach of Demo and Affl, but still there for Destro. yah or nah?

I assume you play destro: yah or nah?

[Pridelock]

I want to add my 2 cents here.

I personally like the current ISF mechanic. I am a destro warlock so its most likley easier for me to keep the buff up and active compared with the other specs. I agree that its a little odd that the duration is the same as the internal CD which means that its practically impossible to keep 100% uptime. Its also a little annoying that the duration and CD are not the same as soulburn effect.

However from a destro point of view its not that bad at the moment. Yes it could be better and I am sure there is a better way to give us the haste buff etc however I am sure there are much worse ways as well?

I would rather than addressed some of the other issues we have ongoing as well rather than just looking at this one area.

[Deleted]

I hope we'll see this gone. This is a crappy talent for all 3 specs. I play mostly as Affliction, but I don't want to see ISF in the destruction talent tree, even if they put it out of reach of affliction and demonology spec for this two reasons:

It's a binary talent:

Either the fight is pretty static and you can get a decent uptime and get good damage going, or there's lots of movement involved, the uptime is very low and your damage output is way below everyone else's, just above the tanks. I can stand having fights more or less warlock-friendly, but the discrepancy is too high when ISF and movement are involved.


Haste scaling problem:

If top raiders with T11 are reaching haste cap, this will mean that in the next tier warlocks won't gain as much benefit from haste in our gear as other classes do, therefore our damage will go down until they fix it in another way. And I don't want to see Shadow Embrace going to 4 stacks.

A 15% nearly-permanent haste buff is bad. If anything, this buff should only proc on soulburned soulfires so the uptime is not more than 15% of the fight. This would give warlocks a chance to get the full haste buff from hero/lust and make the haste in the gear matter for most of the fight. The problem would be that in PVE soulburned soulfire would be the only choice (but wait, actually IT IS the only choice ... WTB more PVE boosts from soulburn!).

[Deleted]

Just an idea:

Improved soulfire renamed to Upcoming Apocalypse: Increases the damage done by your next X destruction spells by Y%.

=> Revert the nerfs or rebalance affli / demo.

=> Destro got a nice and funny mechanic.

Everyone is happy? Surely not :P

[Pridelock]

Shag - Think of the rotation - You cast immolate and it uses one of your new "charges" so it hits for more but not as much of an increase as if "Incinerate" or "Soul Fire" hit. So not an ideal solution fella.

[nocturnus]

The problem would be that in PVE soulburned soulfire would be the only choice (but wait, actually IT IS the only choice ... WTB more PVE boosts from soulburn!).

Is it?I have no problems hardcasting my soulfires to maintain high isf uptime, even on high movement fights. If you only SF in combination with SB you're doing it wrong - plain and simple. It just requires good timing. Reaching the haste cap from gear only, won't be as easy as it was in wrath, you needn't worry about that. If you do reach that 50% cap, you're probably sacrificing other stats. Therefore the 15% static haste buff will always be valuable.

I do however agree on BL. BL almost feels like a DPS loss to me. I have a tendency to get pissed off if our mage/shaman doesn't announce his BL and pops it right after I hard casted my SF.

[gerni]

Is it?I have no problems hardcasting my soulfires to maintain high isf uptime, even on high movement fights. If you only SF in combination with SB you're doing it wrong - plain and simple. It just requires good timing. Reaching the haste cap from gear only, won't be as easy as it was in wrath, you needn't worry about that. If you do reach that 50% cap, you're probably sacrificing other stats. Therefore the 15% static haste buff will always be valuable.

I do however agree on BL. BL almost feels like a DPS loss to me. I have a tendency to get pissed off if our mage/shaman doesn't announce his BL and pops it right after I hard casted my SF.

Or even worse after using your last shard on a non-add fight to SB>SF and they pop bloodlust.

[thedarkone]

The perpetual tweaking and re-tweaking of broken talents is a direct result of the relation of pve to pvp damage. It's like a malfunctioning scale, buff the lackluster raid damage, and you will likely make it too op for pvp.
Once they figure a way completely separate pvp from pve damage, then Op or broken classes will be a thing of the past. Wouldn't hold your breath though.

[Nikkej]

Curious how much you raid. Most warlocks would say its tedious to be a slave to such a short timer in fights involving movement etc when all specs already have other short timers to handle.

I can tell you I have raided as different classes with some of the absolute best Guilds you read about here on MMOC battle for first kills. Now i have just started to play my warlock again ( That i did only raid with in TBC and not in vannila or in WOTLK ) and I have nothing to say, really.

The whine is just...Whine cus they will have something to whine about. Its refreshing and in fact forces the players to think some, and that is fun.

[gualdhar]

My problem with the talent is it forces non-Destro builds to spend most of their extra points in the destro tree. Afflic especially can use some extra points to stick in the demo tree for added survivability. Moving the talent up higher will only make demo and afflic numbers go from great to abyssmal, unless something is buffed to compensate. Maybe place a similar cooldown talent in afflic tree that bases it on UA or Corr ticks, and something in demo that bases the buffs on some Felguard mechanic (making it useful again, Demo using succubus is just rediculous).

[Deleted]

It feels like shit for every spec. I don't understand why they changed it. Affliction was perfect in WOTLK imo.
Now every spec gotta spec in destro just because its "good"...

[Deleted]

i reckon they're chaing it for affli. thankfully im not affli pve (i play destro pve/affli pvp) it cant be the case that blizz want affli to require to spec down into it and use it in their rotation, even though now the theorycrafters have discovered its best for the deeps. i reckon it'll be to stop affliction from having to take it. as for destruction im not sure how i like it, it seems ok though. but as i say having affliction throwing out soulfires just for the haste just seems terrible. even as demo its not as good a thing before execute stage.