Dark Simulacrum, WTF?

[vrann]

Its from when i've hitted 85 that im asking myself why the hell everytime i use Dark Simulacrum on mobs around the world on evey kind of spell it just hit for 80 /50 dmg while into the heroics the copy of the spell hits hard, i mean the normal mobs original spells do not hit just for 80/50, but when i copy and use it it just do that damage, some kind of bug to fix maybe? =/

[Matchu]

It doesn't take into account the casters spellpower when it's.."reflected". So, I would guess world mobs do "damage + spellpower" whereas dungeons mobs simply do damage, but to a greater degree.

[Shiira]

It's pretty easy to confirm that when copied a lot of spells do far less than what their base damage should be just by looking at the tooltips.

[vrann]

yes but like this DarkSimulacrum is completely unuseful with world mobs, for quests and dailies etc....meh

[milowen]

I'm really disappointed with Dark Simulacrum in PvE
It sounds really great and unique but when I use it I also hit at 50-80 dmg. 20 RP and 1 min CD for that isn't fun at all.
So after testing it on a lot of mobs, I stopped it. Now it's just a wasting spell in my bars

[vrann]

offtopic: mate how i can set that ghostcrawler citation on my signature?

[milowen]

I sent it to you in PM.

[Jokerjesus]

We should as a group address this issue with blizzard and see if we cant get this ability to copy the targets spell power with each damaging spell as well as the ability itself.

[Spankenstine]

In world PVE it works poorly as described above. In instances and raids is where it shines. I'm not sure why it works that way, but thats how it works.

[Daljo]

Not every ability can be useful all the time.

[Sunseeker]

Not every ability can be useful all the time.

Not really the point. The purpose of the spell is to copy a powerful spell, and then use it against the caster. If it CAN copy the spell, then it should be sure to copy the effective stats for that spell, otherwise a DK casting a spell that relies on SP will do nothing and won't even be worth the effort.

[mastertroll]

Not every ability can be useful all the time.

by far the most ignorant , stupid and useless post today

[surrounded]

I believe it was originally designed as a PvP mechanic. And infact, i've found it extremely fun and useful. Its quite easy to predict that a Mage is going to instantly pop blink when they come out of iceblock. So being able to blink 5 feet behind them when they run off and try to survive is hilarious to say the least. And in arena's, i've even stolen Heriosim, and hex. So you can think how it changes how fights are played. For PVE, its a disappointment, but I think thats because it wasn't designed for that purpose.

[Il Impiccato]

Its rather fun for pvp but pve wise its fairly useless. The occasional heroic mob but I have yet to copy anything that a heroic boss does much less a raid boss. I personally am not too fond of our three latest abilities however I also don't do much pvp and it seems that they are more tailored for that kind of game play.

[Avatar Killer]

Not every ability can be useful all the time.

lol
this is not only funny but irrelevant. The topic is why does this spell not do what it says it does. If a spell says it prevents 100,000 incoming damage and only blocks 1 damage when the target is dancing while hitting you then what good is the spell at all?
DS is supposed to copy the spell AS IT IS CAST so yeah Vrann has a valid point.

---------- Post added 2011-01-05 at 12:16 PM ----------

Its rather fun for pvp but pve wise its fairly useless. The occasional heroic mob but I have yet to copy anything that a heroic boss does much less a raid boss. I personally am not too fond of our three latest abilities however I also don't do much pvp and it seems that they are more tailored for that kind of game play.

and THIS topic is agreeable for the pve part. This spell is awesome for pvp. As far as pve goes it only copies a small number of abilities and a VERY small number of Boss spells. I under THESE circumstances the above comment i replied to fits in HERE but when the spell flat out doesn't do what it is supposed to doesn't hold up to why it doesn't work all the time.
And as far as our "latest three abilities", well outbreak for one saves ANY DK the need to burn 2 runes to drop both diseases for 1 and two for UH dks it means we NEVER have to apply diseases to the boss so long as we can keep them active.
Necrotic Strike is undoubtedly one of the best abilities for certain fights, specifically the first boss in Heroic SFK. Preventing him from healing entirely from a huge stack of Necro's on the target means a much easier fight. It just requires proper use, and to top that off as well it is awesome for pvp too... though it does have pve uses.

[Il Impiccato]

And as far as our "latest three abilities", well outbreak for one saves ANY DK the need to burn 2 runes to drop both diseases for 1 and two for UH dks it means we NEVER have to apply diseases to the boss so long as we can keep them active.
Necrotic Strike is undoubtedly one of the best abilities for certain fights, specifically the first boss in Heroic SFK. Preventing him from healing entirely from a huge stack of Necro's on the target means a much easier fight. It just requires proper use, and to top that off as well it is awesome for pvp too... though it does have pve uses.

Very true with the outbreak comment, its a staple in my rotation for my offspec which is unholy. I don't much like it for blood however, it produces no runic power so I'd prefer to start off with strikes as chances are by the time I've applied them both I have enough to runic strike. However thats my personal opinion and as I have yet to have an issue of losing aggro while applying diseases I'm hard press to change it yet. Also by the same merit I don't run heroics much anymore so my comments are from a more raiding stand point.

Like anything else it seems depending on the circumstances the abilities can come in rather handy. I just haven't experienced them yet.

*This leads me to an idea. Why not create a thread listing the abilities that both Necrotic Strike and Dark Simulacrum come in useful? (from a pve stand point) That way it can serve as a guide for those starting heroics or raiding.

[froman21]

I did notice that even in pvp if there is a level difference between you and the target (target is lower level) that the spell coeff is treated as artificially low. Really though, in pve this spell has the potential to suck even worse than it does with a tooltip that says "...Against nonplayers, only absorbs some harmful spells.". Last thing we want is blizzard to make this a pve spell and have to deal with it being nerfed for pvp as a result of pve when it is so clearly badass in pvp.

The spells i have been able to replicate in pvp so far are:

invisibility (mage)
polymorph (mage)
mirror image (mage)
flame orb (mage)
ice circle thing (mage)
ice block (mage)
pretty much every heal (shaman, priest, pally, druid)
fear and aoe fear (lock)
deathcoil (lock)
doomguard (lock)
bloodlust (shaman)
wings (pally)
bubble (pally)
shield (priest)
hex (shaman)
lifedrain (lock)
frost nova (mage)
blink (mage)

Lets leave it the way it is. The history of DK changes is rife with changes for the worse while they are trying to buff something.

[Avatar Killer]

I did notice that even in pvp if there is a level difference between you and the target (target is lower level) that the spell coeff is treated as artificially low. Really though, in pve this spell has the potential to suck even worse than it does with a tooltip that says "...Against nonplayers, only absorbs some harmful spells.". Last thing we want is blizzard to make this a pve spell and have to deal with it being nerfed for pvp as a result of pve when it is so clearly badass in pvp.

The spells i have been able to replicate in pvp so far are:

Lets leave it the way it is. The history of DK changes is rife with changes for the worse while they are trying to buff something.

ok not trying to rain on your parade at all but pvp copies are nearly 95%. you can even copy a mage's food table.
The ability to copy other players spells wasn't really the issue it was the fact that he copied a mob's spell that hit him for say 15k and he re-cast it for 50 damage.
That needs to be fixed. Leaving it the way it is would only mean anyone who raids will just likely take it off the bar and therefore making it useless to a large % of the population.

Show us a list of boss spells that can be copied.. or even raid trash for that matter and when that list reaches 25% of JUST the abilities you have listed we well reconvene to discuss our argument.

it Does need to be fixed.

---------- Post added 2011-01-05 at 01:30 PM ----------

Very true with the outbreak comment, its a staple in my rotation for my offspec which is unholy. I don't much like it for blood however, it produces no runic power so I'd prefer to start off with strikes as chances are by the time I've applied them both I have enough to runic strike. However thats my personal opinion and as I have yet to have an issue of losing aggro while applying diseases I'm hard press to change it yet. Also by the same merit I don't run heroics much anymore so my comments are from a more raiding stand point.

Like anything else it seems depending on the circumstances the abilities can come in rather handy. I just haven't experienced them yet.

*This leads me to an idea. Why not create a thread listing the abilities that both Necrotic Strike and Dark Simulacrum come in useful? (from a pve stand point) That way it can serve as a guide for those starting heroics or raiding.

as for the list of where necro strike comes in handy basically any fight where the target can heal itself OR cast a spell is pretty much good to go. Necro strike also slows casting speed by 30%. If no one else applies this type of debuff it has its obvious uses in any caster fight and any fight where the target is casting a heal of ANY kind it prevents some of that heal. Especially if the heal is hard to interrupt or cannot be interrupted or is a heal over time (cant think of one right off).

[froman21]

Show us a list of boss spells that can be copied.. or even raid trash for that matter and when that list reaches 25% of JUST the abilities you have listed we well reconvene to discuss our argument.

it Does need to be fixed.

Places a dark ward on an enemy that persists for 8 sec, triggering when the enemy next spends mana on a spell, and allowing the Death Knight to unleash an exact duplicate of that spell. Against nonplayers, only absorbs some harmful spells.

Not sure what line in this tooltip makes you think this is a raiding spell.

[Avatar Killer]

Not sure what line in this tooltip makes you think this is a raiding spell.

not sure what you meant when i NEVER said it was a raiding spell but just for the sake of making a new post

I guess since Scourge strike doesn't say "raid spell" on it i shouldn't use it in a raid right?
or how about Icy Touch? that is a ranged ability... well I'm a melee class so i shouldn't use it in a raid right?

If the ability only functions in ONE aspect of the game then yes it is useless. if Chains of ice NEVER worked on a raid target no one that RAIDS would have it on their bar.

I never said it HAS to. but again lets use what you said.

Places a dark ward on an enemy that persists for 8 sec, triggering when the enemy next spends mana on a spell, and allowing the Death Knight to unleash an exact duplicate of that spell. Against nonplayers, only absorbs some harmful spells.

Pretty sure YOU typed this.
Reread what it says

If it doesn't do what it says then either the WORDING is wrong which means its broken or the spell is broken period.
Either way it is broken, hence needs to be fixed.
if it doesn't "unleash an exact duplicate of that spell" as the tooltip says then obviously its broken.