2Hand Frost dps

[Sinnaris]

Will 2Hand frost be a more viable dps with the upcoming changes to the Might of the Frozen Waste talent? (•Might of the Frozen Wastes now also increases all melee damage by 4/8/12% while wielding a two-handed weapon.) Just curious of what people think.

[CookieEater]

It was behind with a different of around 10%, last I checked, so this should bring it close.

[Avatar Killer]

This is likely to make a pretty large change with a 12% increase to melee damage seeings how all but 1 of frosts attacks to single targets are melee.
A much needed change.

[cFortyfive]

Could be still too low considering the fact that even dualwield frost kinda struggles hard atm.

[Sinnaris]

This is likely to make a pretty large change with a 12% increase to melee damage seeings how all but 1 of frosts attacks to single targets are melee.
A much needed change.

I agree. I sure hope it does make a big difference, because i love 2hand frost.

[Alanar]

I agree. I sure hope it does make a big difference, because i love 2hand frost.

Oblitirate is the only attack that's based on that, the rest is frostpower( mastery) so i hope this change will bring up single target dps!
and since aoe is getting nerfed pretty hard( needed change tho) isn't this spec getting alot of new changes.

and since this is ptr, i hope frost is getting some nice buffs to get a step ahead.

[Avatar Killer]

Could be still too low considering the fact that even dualwield frost kinda struggles hard atm.

actually dual wield frost is pretty decent.
however the basic idea stated that 12% to melee abilities almost completely constitutes 10% damage increase since HwB only contributes approximately 10% of your damage total.
Math wise or rather "napkin math" as some would have it states that if HwB is 10% of your damage and is not a melee ability and diseases contribute ~10% but the other 80% of your damage is melee then you would take your total dps minus 20% and stack on 12% to that and reapply the HB damage. and since Frost 2h was ~10% behind this would put it right where it belongs
yes yes im sure there is some "shortcut" to this but seeings how its not that hard to do this would directly affect your damage by a large margin.

[QUOTE=Appel;10016566] Oblitirate is the only attack that's based on that, the rest is frostpower( mastery) so i hope this change will bring up single target dps!/QUOTE]

no.
frost strike is a melee ability and thus would be affected. Same as white strike damage as well (obviously)
and also BS would be affected
"frostpower" as you call it affects FF, FS and HB (IT also but who cares).

Basically FS double dips into mastery and this new talent change.

[Roose]

Oblitirate is the only attack that's based on that, the rest is frostpower( mastery) so i hope this change will bring up single target dps!
and since aoe is getting nerfed pretty hard( needed change tho) isn't this spec getting alot of new changes.

and since this is ptr, i hope frost is getting some nice buffs to get a step ahead.

I could swear frost strike was a melee attack. Spells for DKs do not involve direct melee attacks. Ya, it is buffed by frost mastery, but it is a melee attack. The only thing I do not see the buff affecting is HB and diseases(which are crap).

I am really hoping this change puts it on the level with others. This would make MotFW one super, badass talent. I am actually surprised that they did not make it a separate, new talent.

[Avatar Killer]

I could swear frost strike was a melee attack. Spells for DKs do not involve direct melee attacks. Ya, it is buffed by frost mastery, but it is a physical attack.

no frost strike is not a physical attack its a frost attack that is affected by melee abilities and avoidances and is ALSO affected by resistance. OB is a physical attack

[Roose]

no frost strike is not a physical attack its a frost attack that is affected by melee abilities and avoidances and is ALSO affected by resistance. OB is a physical attack

So you are calling FS a spell and not a melee attack?

The wording has nothing to do with physical damage. That is most likely why it says melee damage, specifically.

DK abilities walk a tight rope and you really can't classify them with abilities from other classes. Yes, FS does frost damage, but it is a direct melee attack. It does not go by spell hit because it is not a spell, it is a melee attack. Thus, it would be affected by the changes.

[cFortyfive]

actually dual wield frost is pretty decent.
however the basic idea stated that 12% to melee abilities almost completely constitutes 10% damage increase since HwB only contributes approximately 10% of your damage total.
Math wise or rather "napkin math" as some would have it states that if HwB is 10% of your damage and is not a melee ability and diseases contribute ~10% but the other 80% of your damage is melee then you would take your total dps minus 20% and stack on 12% to that and reapply the HB damage. and since Frost 2h was ~10% behind this would put it right where it belongs
yes yes im sure there is some "shortcut" to this but seeings how its not that hard to do this would directly affect your damage by a large margin.

Mhh I don't know but they seem to be a good amount behind every other class on pretty much any encounter I browsed through on worldoflogs. Our frost dk as well performance rather bad and considers just going dualwield uh for the time being.

[Emothianes]

The wording highly implies the 12% will increase all strikes and abilities excluding diseases, icy touch, death coil, and howling blast. This change should be the buff 2h frost needs to stay competitive.

[Avatar Killer]

So you are calling FS a spell and not a melee attack?

The wording has nothing to do with physical damage. That is most likely why it says melee damage, specifically.

DK abilities walk a tight rope and you really can't classify them with abilities from other classes. Yes, FS does frost damage, but it is a direct melee attack. It does not go by spell hit because it is not a spell, it is a melee attack. Thus, it would be affected by the changes.

first answer no i never said its a spell. I said its a MELEE ability that does ONLY elemental damage (being frost).

second response. Actually it says Frost damage not melee damage. Physical damage is directly affected by armor (except bleed damage which we don't do). FS is not affected by armor because it clearly states frost damage and not "melee damage"

lastly you can easily classify them based on exactly what they do. any DK ability that uses your weapon damage is classified as a melee ability regardless of what type of damage it does. Spells are anything that do not use weapon damage. AGAIN FS does frost damage and yes it is a melee ability but it does not apply physical damage. Physical damage is affected by armor. Frost strike completely ignores armor and hits the target directly and is modified by avoidance and resistance.
i never stated it uses spell hit. Ever.
and i also clearly stated that it would be affected by the new changes. i was actually the second post to say just that.

[Emothianes]

Mhh I don't know but they seem to be a good amount behind every other class on pretty much any encounter I browsed through on worldoflogs. Our frost dk as well performance rather bad and considers just going dualwield uh for the time being. They seem to have a pretty hard time even breeching 20k which isn't really much anymore these days single target.

This has more to do with the style of encounters presented to us at this tier of raiding and what I would consider a design flaw for Unholy. DW frost is quite close to 2h Unholy (within a few %) assuming a patchwerk style encounter, but we have none of those. So while Frost is left to deal with mechanics and occasionally spam howling blast, Unholy DKs get to leave up their slightly stronger diseases and have an empowered ghoul sitting on the boss nearly 100% of the time.

Frost should also scale slightly better overtime, but we'll know more when people actually get to start wearing BiS.

[DomBomb1]

no frost strike is not a physical attack its a frost attack that is affected by melee abilities and avoidances and is ALSO affected by resistance. OB is a physical attack

He said melee attack, not physical attack. L2read

[DomBomb1]

first answer no i never said its a spell. I said its a MELEE ability that does ONLY elemental damage (being frost).

second response. Actually it says Frost damage not melee damage. Physical damage is directly affected by armor (except bleed damage which we don't do). FS is not affected by armor because it clearly states frost damage and not "melee damage"

lastly you can easily classify them based on exactly what they do. any DK ability that uses your weapon damage is classified as a melee ability regardless of what type of damage it does. Spells are anything that do not use weapon damage. AGAIN FS does frost damage and yes it is a melee ability but it does not apply physical damage. Physical damage is affected by armor. Frost strike completely ignores armor and hits the target directly and is modified by avoidance and resistance.
i never stated it uses spell hit. Ever.
and i also clearly stated that it would be affected by the new changes. i was actually the second post to say just that.

When you make a mistake in your wording, people are going to misunderstand you. There is no need to go off on some rant about it - just realize your mistake and correct it.

[Avatar Killer]

When you make a mistake in your wording, people are going to misunderstand you. There is no need to go off on some rant about it - just realize your mistake and correct it.

i didn't make a mistake in anything i posted. it was clear, concise and to the point. i didn't rant either i clearly responded to what he said as briefly as i could while clearing up his confusion. it wasn't meant to be an insult it was meant to teach

He said melee attack, not physical attack. L2read

The wording has nothing to do with physical damage. That is most likely why it says melee damage, specifically.

no he said melee damage not melee attack. try following your own advice

[Jokerjesus]

Oblitirate is the only attack that's based on that, the rest is frostpower( mastery) so i hope this change will bring up single target dps!
and since aoe is getting nerfed pretty hard( needed change tho) isn't this spec getting alot of new changes.

and since this is ptr, i hope frost is getting some nice buffs to get a step ahead.

It would Effect Blood Strike as well as Obliterated.

[Avatar Killer]

It would Effect Blood Strike as well as Obliterated.

as well as frost strike and auto attacks

[MeleeSpriestDK]

I agree. I sure hope it does make a big difference, because i love 2hand frost.

Yea me too 2h frost is just a versatile spec been wanting to use it again since leveling but the dps told me to go unholy haha